So what is a "real" RPG?

[kingcom]

Well a lot of the DA2 hate is kind of weird, like the people who think not being able to change companion army somehow damages role-playing... because in real life you get to decide what your friends wear and it's never weird.

A "Real RPG" is something that has a lot of really superfluous minutia; spending immersion destroying hours weeding through your inventory, crafting systems that are just take this to place and magic happens, combat needs to be really slow because... slow is more... role-playish.

Actually its more about giving the player control, some people prefer having more actions to deal with in an rpg because that means they have more freedom.

As to what a real rpg is? Table Top Roleplaying.
Think this: http://geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/index13.html
this: http://geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/gloryposter.html
Or this: http://geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/nevertellodds.html

Its the capacity to go and do anything you can think of. A video game gives this up in return for being able to physically see what is going on. Little things like changing companion armour or a different type of combat allows people to pretend there is freedom, even though there isnt.

 

[kingcom]

RPG - Role Playing Game. Emphasis on Role Playing.

The "Role" originally meant the tactical role; not larping or acting.

A role is also a task or a duty in an undertaking.

RPGSs were originally just derived from table top war games, only on a smaller scale. Your role is to tank or to heal or to disarm traps, etc.

no, paraphrasing out of context wikipedia a bit there aren't we

depends on which of the 80's RPG's you consider the start if you are a talisman fan then i guess you are right but the phrase role playing game or RPG is sighted as being coined Gary Gygax and D&D even in its first incarnation was always about playing a character not just kicking in doors.

D&D extended from Chainmail, which is where it was coined. It was a wargame using single models a player.

 

[Lokithrsourcerer]

my bad i always thought chain mail was a magazine (i was only born in 83 thoguh)

 

[Trildor]

A role-playing game is one that allows the player to immerse himself and play what role he wishes. Feats, stats, levels, etc. are ancillary, not mandatory.

 

[ChupathingyX]

In video game terms.

A game that allows the player to choose what role they wish to play, what kind of person they want to be, what kind of attributes they have, how they solve quests and what conflicts they get themselves into in and how they will end. Also they should have some kind of "dice role" feature.

 

[veloper]

RPG - Role Playing Game. Emphasis on Role Playing.

The "Role" originally meant the tactical role; not larping or acting.

A role is also a task or a duty in an undertaking.

RPGSs were originally just derived from table top war games, only on a smaller scale. Your role is to tank or to heal or to disarm traps, etc.

no, paraphrasing out of context wikipedia a bit there aren't we

depends on which of the 80's RPG's you consider the start if you are a talisman fan then i guess you are right but the phrase role playing game or RPG is sighted as being coined Gary Gygax and D&D even in its first incarnation was always about playing a character not just kicking in doors.

D&D extended from Chainmail, which is where it was coined. It was a wargame using single models a player.

In any case, I've always taken the gamist POV, because it's the only thing that doesn't end in tears.
Gygaxian dungeons never seemed to lend themselves to developing your thespian character anyway. Roll up a new character again!

 

[kingcom]

RPG - Role Playing Game. Emphasis on Role Playing.

The "Role" originally meant the tactical role; not larping or acting.

A role is also a task or a duty in an undertaking.

RPGSs were originally just derived from table top war games, only on a smaller scale. Your role is to tank or to heal or to disarm traps, etc.

no, paraphrasing out of context wikipedia a bit there aren't we

depends on which of the 80's RPG's you consider the start if you are a talisman fan then i guess you are right but the phrase role playing game or RPG is sighted as being coined Gary Gygax and D&D even in its first incarnation was always about playing a character not just kicking in doors.

D&D extended from Chainmail, which is where it was coined. It was a wargame using single models a player.

In any case, I've always taken the gamist POV, because it's the only thing that doesn't end in tears.
Gygaxian dungeons never seemed to lend themselves to developing your thespian character anyway. Roll up a new character again!

You can't die if you don't fight. You can resolve conflict by not hitting it with your axe.

 

[RYjet911]

Personally, I would say when the story or the setting can be directly and indirectly affected by player actions, that is a true RPG.

What I don't consider RPGs is any game with a level system. This is why despite their what I'd call fake RPG elements, I'd count Deus Ex, Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls series as RPGs, but almost anything out of Japan that many call RPGs I wouldn't. This is also why I would count STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl as an RPG, despite not having any of this token level system most other popular RPGs must have by draconian gaming law or something, since you affect the other NPCs as you play in different styles. Constantly going on full out rampages is going to get you hated by most people, where as rescuing people from certain death is a good way to make friends.

Final Fantasy for example is so stupidly linear it's untrue, and the only effects player choice can have on the game's progression is how easily they get through it by equipping better weapons and skills. And in that case I wouldn't call the series an RPG, more adventure games with turn-based 'strategy' games.

Of course, if you take the idea of the role being the particular types of character which I would sometimes do, such as one character being the life-giving healer, one being the damage-soaking tank, one being the general fighter etc. then OLD Final Fantasy games (I-VI) and Final Fantasy 9 I may count as RPGs too. The rest don't really have character roles in that respect, it's just having two or three characters that wail on the enemies while the third is on potion duty.

In video game terms.

A game that allows the player to choose what role they wish to play, what kind of person they want to be, what kind of attributes they have, how they solve quests and what conflicts they get themselves into in and how they will end. Also they should have some kind of "dice role" feature.

I never understood why dice roll features have to be included by some people's minds. All they do is force the player to occasionally fail at what they're trying to do without making it an actual player skill. I can understand, back in the days of D&D where technology was limited, dice rolls were the only way to make some form of unbiased conflict (unless you sneakily used a weighted dice >:3).

But in the modern era of gaming, where computer resources are plentiful to render millions of onscreen polygons and fill a game with thousands of character models and animations, my hit chance should not be affected by a random number, it should be affected by whether the onscreen sword hits the onscreen enemy, or the bullet fired from my gun makes contact with the enemy. Failure of picking a lock should not be random, it should be based on my inability to perform an action on the game, such as a quick-time event or lockpicking minigame. While these are both fairly flow-breaking methods of having lockpicking in a game, it's a lot better than tapping the button until the random dice tells you you've unlocked it.

 

[veloper]

RPG - Role Playing Game. Emphasis on Role Playing.

The "Role" originally meant the tactical role; not larping or acting.

A role is also a task or a duty in an undertaking.

RPGSs were originally just derived from table top war games, only on a smaller scale. Your role is to tank or to heal or to disarm traps, etc.

no, paraphrasing out of context wikipedia a bit there aren't we

depends on which of the 80's RPG's you consider the start if you are a talisman fan then i guess you are right but the phrase role playing game or RPG is sighted as being coined Gary Gygax and D&D even in its first incarnation was always about playing a character not just kicking in doors.

D&D extended from Chainmail, which is where it was coined. It was a wargame using single models a player.

In any case, I've always taken the gamist POV, because it's the only thing that doesn't end in tears.
Gygaxian dungeons never seemed to lend themselves to developing your thespian character anyway. Roll up a new character again!

You can't die if you don't fight. You can resolve conflict by not hitting it with your axe.

You can die just by opening the wrong, but unremarkable door.

 

[Lokithrsourcerer]

RPG - Role Playing Game. Emphasis on Role Playing.

The "Role" originally meant the tactical role; not larping or acting.

A role is also a task or a duty in an undertaking.

RPGSs were originally just derived from table top war games, only on a smaller scale. Your role is to tank or to heal or to disarm traps, etc.

no, paraphrasing out of context wikipedia a bit there aren't we

depends on which of the 80's RPG's you consider the start if you are a talisman fan then i guess you are right but the phrase role playing game or RPG is sighted as being coined Gary Gygax and D&D even in its first incarnation was always about playing a character not just kicking in doors.

D&D extended from Chainmail, which is where it was coined. It was a wargame using single models a player.

In any case, I've always taken the gamist POV, because it's the only thing that doesn't end in tears.
Gygaxian dungeons never seemed to lend themselves to developing your thespian character anyway. Roll up a new character again!

maybe not in the early days but it all depends on the players and the DM. I played in a D20 modern campaign a couple of years ago that had very little fighting in it and it was awesome (that was in part because the DM, or GM if u prefer, was using it to test ideas for his 3rd yr degree project in screenplay writing)

and that was the point I was originally getting at earlier in this topic; in a pen and paper game the story evolves and is essentially written by the players as much as the DM in a video game that just isn't possible...yet

 

[kingcom]

You can die just by opening the wrong, but unremarkable door.

That would be one incredibly unfriendly GM.

 

[Umwerfer]

the only "real" RPG games at the moment are pen and paper games like D&D, D20 modern etc

games have to act within restrictions of content and technology so although you may be taking on the part of a role you don't really have the freedom to play your character you can only play the game.

I know there have been some attempts to create the kind of experience you get from a pen and paper game b4. Neverwinter nights had a DM client for one, I'm sure there are others as well but because of the restrictive nature of even the most non-liner game it is difficult to truly "role-play"

If a true rpg exists, then neverwinter nights is as close as you get ^^ Man, those games were almost as awesome as the real thing ^^

 

[Vibhor]

SNIP

RPG is ALL about combat system.
If the combat system prefers variables over skill then its an RPG and if those variables can be improved over time that is a true RPG.
Thats why Deus Ex was an RPG and STALKER was not.
Complicated inventory does not make an RPG.
Of course one could go by the word definition of RPG and translate any game they like into a role playing game.
Skills (character not the player's) are what make an RPG good. They are the reason some people prefer old fallout to the more action orientated Fallout 3.
Variables are the reason people prefer turn based over real time as turn based allows more depth and complexity in every thing and is not just about pointing the cursor at something and pressing LMB.
This does not mean that the latter sucks, it just means that turn based is where true RPG stay and action oriented games are not true RPG experience./Rant

That said, I have not actually jumped into the Dragon age/Bioware bandwagon yet, particularly they feel a little too linear.

 

[cgentero]

I think the term "role playing game" originally referred to the class system combined with a certain level of customization, in this context for example Final Fantasy is more of an RPG than say Fallout. The problem however is that "role playing game" now means anything featuring character customization.

 

[veloper]

You can die just by opening the wrong, but unremarkable door.

That would be one incredibly unfriendly GM.

That's the sort of stuff that goes on in a Gygaxian dungeon. A good GM doesn't resort to those I agree.
Still you can't shake the impression that the original intent of Gygax was for the DM to mess with the players.

 

[vrbtny]

This is a real RPG.

Hehehe. Win^^

OT : I dunno. Fallout 3 is fun... can't say I'm a huge RPG fan. Give me RTS or Fire Emblem anyday...

 

[RYjet911]

SNIP

RPG is ALL about combat system.
If the combat system prefers variables over skill then its an RPG and if those variables can be improved over time that is a true RPG.
Thats why Deus Ex was an RPG and STALKER was not.
Complicated inventory does not make an RPG.
Of course one could go by the word definition of RPG and translate any game they like into a role playing game.
Skills (character not the player's) are what make an RPG good. They are the reason some people prefer old fallout to the more action orientated Fallout 3.
Variables are the reason people prefer turn based over real time as turn based allows more depth and complexity in every thing and is not just about pointing the cursor at something and pressing LMB.
This does not mean that the latter sucks, it just means that turn based is where true RPG stay and action oriented games are not true RPG experience./Rant

That said, I have not actually jumped into the Dragon age/Bioware bandwagon yet, particularly they feel a little too linear.

By your definition, STALKER is an RPG. As the game progresses you gain access to more powerful weapons and armour, which improve your damage output and resistance. The damage is based on variables and those variables can be improved over time. True RPG.

 

[azurine]

my experience with RPGs is limited to every Mario RPG. although I've heard some people yell at me, saying "those aren't RPGs!" so apparently that doesn't count. and apparently the dark cloud series, as well as Pokemon mystery dungeon, doesn't count either by vote of the same whining baby-la-las.

so from what I can gather, RPGs all have turn based combat where you can't even TRY to dodge enemy attacks, and the game's not allowed to be fun.

 

[TilMorrow]

RPG? Rocket Propelled Grenade? Rocky's Purple Gerandine? Robby Perkins George? Role... Playing... Game? Please specify.

OT: AS long as a game is fun and has got me playing a role then to me its a friggening RPG. Now just have to add in the class, leveling, story, npc, companions, amazingness, replayability, battle, over-the-topness, theme, believeable and etc. systems and the game will be all set for me to actually play.

OF-T: Whats an FSP?