So what videogames do you consider to be GOOD art?

[Spark Ignition]

Haha loads of good points being made.
I'm gonna concentrate on two:

Okami, Beyond Good and Evil; probably Grim Fandango too.
I'd include Mass Effect, but there's a nag in the back of my head telling me not to.

Interesting, why not? Because it was a lot more successful and therefore considered more 'mainstream' than the other two you suggested? Because it's a lot more action orientated? Personally I freakin love the Mass Effect series (including webcomics and all other mediums it's been produced in). It's an in-depth, atmospheric world that parallels our own, giving the player a significant sense of agency by showing that their choices directly affect outcomes in the game. It's populated with believable, iconic and entertaining NPCs with advanced AI that simulates a real relationship between them and the player's Shepard, and visually it's just beautiful. As far as immersion's concerned I've probabaly spent over 1000 hours on both ME games, and loved very second of it (well excluding some mako grinding, but as Yahtzee agreed those sections helped to convince the player there was a massive universe out there). I fortmed a genuine emotional connection with the game, shouting and screaming my triumph like a lunatic when I saved my entire team in ME2's suicide mission, hating myself whenI ahd to choose between Kaidan and Ashley, wondering if I did something wrong, all the hallmarks of a successful piece of art.

Everytime I hear this question/discussion/argument or whatever you want to call it I always first think of Bioshock. Yes its just a video game, which is what seems to be a popular argument against the are video games discussion, The shooting aspect is not the central focus in my opinion.

As you go through a self destructive "Utopian" society, your drive as a character is not to go around killing every thing that comes across, you're just trying to find out where you are and end up getting caught in a power struggle to control what's left of Rapture. (Slightly Ironic name too, there's your literary symbolism as well)

The entire time, if you explore rather than plow straight through, you can discover more about the history of Rapture and what really happened.All of the main characters are well developed with unique personalities and quirks. Much like a play or movie.

Again, I will admit this is my own biased opinion. I went into Bioshock not with the mindset of "I'm gonna kill stuff with a big gun." I went in looking to explore a city that should have been Utopia until things went horribly wrong. Much as I would a film or playn

And yes, Bioshock. *deep breath*. Amazing game, and the one I'm considering using as my dissertation example. That the game is fairly linear doesn't bother me, it's involving enough that I'm drawn in without having the game give me meaningful choices. I would say you have to aim for the brass balls achievement to get the full experience however, as so much of the atmosphere relies on being afraid/unnerved that the vita-chambers are kind of crappy. Other than that the game is beautiful to look at design-wise (I've never seen art deco look so appropriate) and graphically (oh my dear lord the water), dramatic and involving (look at the big reveal of Rapture) and very much intellectually stimulating philosophically, ethically and logistically. FOr me it hits all the bases of good art, as well as being freakishly entertaining and fun to play. ALl these efforts work together like an orchestra to create an amzing, otherworldly experience.

er... 5 stars?

 

[repeating integers]

Homeworld. Once again, my fanboy soul refuses to let me ignore this game.

Ignoring the gameplay (which is very good, but I'm not sure whether gameplay can be considered art) the game has beautiful backgrounds that could be considered aesthetic art in themselves, a hauntingly brilliant soundtrack, and a beautifully told (if simple in itself) story.

 

[wastedyouth89]

I'm going to say the Legend of Zelda games on the Wii and Gamecube (Twilight Princess and Wind Waker respectively). The story and gameplay are basically the same as a bunch of other games. But I think the art style really sets them apart. From the creative and wild characters to the freaky enemies all the designs of creatures and people you interact with are great. Every character has it's own look. Wind Waker I especially loved because you could fill the Nintendo Gallery with statues of every character to see how awesome and different each one really was. Also I loved how WW had beautiful effects caused by the cell-shading: wispy smoke, rolling waves, grass swaying in the breeze. The game is beautiful looking. TP is also quite a lovely game that really sets things in tons of different settings from the arctic mountains to the watery temples to the worlds of twilight. I love how these games look. And how they play too.

 

[eternalphear]

The Elder Scrolls has an immense back story & an excellent game.

 

[claw38]

Definitely look into Kingdom Hearts 1 or 2..specifically 2..it does a really great job of establishing characters and setting off emotions in you..personally I felt feelings of nostalgia at the beginning, and so on especially towards the end..definitely a great game to define art.
Bioshock does a great job illustrating a dystopian land and how the ideals of man don't always align the way they do in our heads.
Beyond Good & Evil is another amazing example...all good stuff
Good luck with your paper..prove that games are art! =D

 

[TheHecatomb]

Oddworld.

 

[Flamezdudes]

The Mass Effect series (Especially this!)

BioShock

Half Life 2

Red Dead Redemption

 

[Naota_391]

Looking at games as art, I think something we have to acknowledge as their greatest strength is the depth of immersion that's possible here. Yes, people can get really into a book, movie, or an album, but it's different with a video game. A video game can go that extra mile. You have some level of control, and so you feel some level of responsibility. You will see someone have a very visible physical reaction to something that happens in a game.

With this in mind, I think you should look at games that try to get the player immersed into their worlds. Games that try to really sink their teeth into you. Whether they succeed or fail, it doesn't entirely matter. Not all Art is perfect, you know.

Edit: I'm organizing them by length, that way you can find a way to get more bang for your buck. The ones in caps are highly, highly recommended. As in, if you're going to talk about games being art, I think you need to have experienced these games and have them in your vocabulary.

Play these games:

FLOWER

LIMBO

Portal

Zeno Clash

HEAVY RAIN

Mirror's Edge

Condemned: Criminal Origins

BIOSHOCK

Ico

SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

HALF-LIFE series (You can skip H-L 1 with a wiki page.)

Any Peter Molyneux game.

Mass Effect 1-2

GRAND THEFT AUTO IV

Fallout 3

 

[kurokotetsu]

Another thing. A lot of people seem to dothe relation of "art=somethin (let's say manmade) that provokes emotion", but that seems far too general for me. For that definition a magazine ad may be art, as it may provoke amusement or the desire to buy, it is designed to make you feel so you remember the product. A match of football (either one) may provoke rage, excitement and pride. Even a "your mama" joke would be art by that definition, as it may enrage you or make you laugh. It seems to general definition of "art". Nearly everything manmade may provoke an emotion (a TV breaking, a comfy sofa). Even if we consider the itnention of making an emotion ahppen, even my dog can make "art" as he jumps to a codeword to make me happy (and get a treat, but it provokes an emotion), taking out hte manmade part of the definition. I would think that art has to be more "elitist", it is something else from provoking raw emotion, not everything is art. But that is just my point of view. For me "Is this painting art?" is a question that makes sense, as not all paintings are art. If everything is art, then art is such a common thing that it may be ignored, there is no point to trying to "reinvindicate" if games (or anything else) is art (if you say that the argument is that there is good art and bad, and games are good art, then you can just define/restrict art as good art and it is the same argument).

 

[nuba km]

snip

lots of games that are a good example of art in games are also very in your face about it like the 'art' of a white square. I say silent hill 2 is the best example of good art in games without being snoopy about it and here is why:
1. SYMBOLISM!!! is about 1mile deep in this game
2. characters and story are deep well developed and used to bring several meanings to the game
3. it uses gameplay not just to drive it's story but to make you feel like the character and bring a whole new level to the character. Also because of you controlling the character you can't turn away even if you want to like the way that the main character may be horrified by what he sees but can't turn away because he thinks he might be able to find her.
4. SYMBOLISM in the enemies instead of them JUST being obstacle. the monsters are obstacle in two ways 1. you need to get past them 2. they represent the deep problems of the character which he has to over come to get on with his live and get over the fact his wife is dead. (this is done in a way which is like throwing a child into a river to get them to learn to swim. edit and the river has men eating sharks in it).

these are the things is have picked up from the games without ever playing them but with a bit of research you could properly easily write a 10,000 word essay about the meaning of silent hill 2 yet alone about how it is a example of great art in video games.

 

[Daniel Clausen]

Since noone has mentioned this little polish indie puzzle adventure gem yet, allow me:

Machinarium

This game is, for me, the definition of videogame art; the art-style, the music, it just screams art. You can even play a short in-browser demo on the games website www.machinarium.net

 

[TehIrishSoap]

GTA 4

 

[Spark Ignition]

Looking at games as art, I think something we have to acknowledge as their greatest strength is the depth of immersion that's possible here. Yes, people can get really into a book, movie, or an album, but it's different with a video game. A video game can go that extra mile. You have some level of control, and so you feel some level of responsibility. You will see someone have a very visible physical reaction to something that happens in a game.

With this in mind, I think you should look at games that try to get the player immersed into their worlds. Games that try to really sink their teeth into you. Whether they succeed or fail, it doesn't entirely matter. Not all Art is perfect, you know.

Edit: I'm organizing them by length, that way you can find a way to get more bang for your buck. The ones in caps are highly, highly recommended. As in, if you're going to talk about games being art, I think you need to have experienced these games and have them in your vocabulary.

Play these games:

FLOWER

LIMBO

Portal

Zeno Clash

HEAVY RAIN

Mirror's Edge

Condemned: Criminal Origins

BIOSHOCK

Ico

SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

HALF-LIFE series (You can skip H-L 1 with a wiki page.)

Any Peter Molyneux game.

Mass Effect 1-2

GRAND THEFT AUTO IV

Fallout 3

Thank you! With the exception of Limbo, Zeno Clash, Shadow of the Colossus and Ico I have played all those games and for each one see what you're talking about (Fable 2 for the Molyneux title). Well except Half Life but I'm about to play that now as my wirless mouse arrived this morning. Cursed laptops.

 

[Cosplay Horatio]

Scott Pilgrim vs. The World The Video Game.

 

[Scobie]

DELETED

 

[Naota_391]

Looking at games as art, I think something we have to acknowledge as their greatest strength is the depth of immersion that's possible here. Yes, people can get really into a book, movie, or an album, but it's different with a video game. A video game can go that extra mile. You have some level of control, and so you feel some level of responsibility. You will see someone have a very visible physical reaction to something that happens in a game.

With this in mind, I think you should look at games that try to get the player immersed into their worlds. Games that try to really sink their teeth into you. Whether they succeed or fail, it doesn't entirely matter. Not all Art is perfect, you know.

Edit: I'm organizing them by length, that way you can find a way to get more bang for your buck. The ones in caps are highly, highly recommended. As in, if you're going to talk about games being art, I think you need to have experienced these games and have them in your vocabulary.

Play these games:

FLOWER

LIMBO

Portal

Zeno Clash

HEAVY RAIN

Mirror's Edge

Condemned: Criminal Origins

BIOSHOCK

Ico

SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS

HALF-LIFE series (You can skip H-L 1 with a wiki page.)

Any Peter Molyneux game.

Mass Effect 1-2

GRAND THEFT AUTO IV

Fallout 3

Thank you! With the exception of Limbo, Zeno Clash, Shadow of the Colossus and Ico I have played all those games and for each one see what you're talking about (Fable 2 for the Molyneux title). Well except Half Life but I'm about to play that now as my wirless mouse arrived this morning. Cursed laptops.

Great! None of those games are too long, either, and they're all relatively cheap. I think Limbo and SotC are probably the two you should focus on, though.

Well, after Half-Life, anyways. Call me crazy, but if anyone were to say to me, "Prove to me that video games can be art," I'd point them at Half-Life. There's plenty of depth in the story, and it does a great job of setting up characters, stories, and an environment without pulling you out of the game. It doesn't forget what it is and decide to borrow from films or books by using cut scenes and walls of text to tell its story. You get information through believable conversations between the characters around you, and you get a feel for what's going on through the presentation and little events you stumble upon.

Immersion always has and always will be what sets video games apart from films, books, and music. It can do all the things those mediums can do and more. I hope that's something you talk about in your paper.

 

[MicrosoftPaysMe]

Ico, MGS 4, Halo, Heavy Rain, LIMBO

 

[C95J]

Metro 2033.

The atmosphere was amazing, and even though the game wasn't polished to perfection, it is still art in it's own way.

 

[PrinceofPersia]

PORTAL, that is all

Not only is that game pleasant to the eye but the story is pure poetry.

 

[Mikeyfell]

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: This is not a rehash of the old debate on whether games are art. I'm rather asking what you find most effective in the games you consider to be art. My intention is to start an artistic discussion with games as the focus, rather than a general discussion about games as art.


Basically I know the videogame community has reached some form of resolution with Roger Ebert's statement that videogames can never be art (very sensibly we are ignoring him), but as an art student and (I would consider myself) a hardcore gamer, I can't help but keep thinking about this. For my dissertation this semester I'm using Ebert's statement and articles to write a point-counterpoint argument in defence of games as an art-form (I know it's been done to death in the gaming community but shockingly completely overlooked at art school, hence why I want to bring it up).

What games would you guys recommend I play (all in the name of research hehe) to support or reject this claim? What do you think a game needs to accomplish to be 'art'? DO you think it'simportant that the gaming industry gains recognition as an art form or could you not care less? I will try to look into any games you suggest (budget allowing) and read any articles (on either side of the debate) you could reccommend.
I will try to suggest any titles I can think of.
For anyone who somehow missed out on the article that sparked off so much controversy, you can read it here:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/video_games_can_never_be_art.html

first off have you played Silent Hill 2? that's just one of the best examples
you can get it for $14 at gamestop.
also Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Mirror's Edge, Okami, Prince of Persia.

here's my opinion and I (Egotistically) thing it's very important
there are already games that are works of art.
A painter can create a scene that evokes an emotion. right?
well a game designer can create an entire world that can evoke countless emotions
just play Fallout 3 it can make you laugh, cry, angry, relived
Silent Hill 2 and 3 scared me for days after I stopped playing
I cared about the Prince in Prince of Persia more than the protagonists of a lot of movies.
and no amount of Call of Duty's or Metal of Honor's, or Grand Theft Auto's will ever change that.

no one will ever say The Mona Lisa isn't art even if I draw 1000000 crappy paintings for every good one out there.


but he seems to be stuck to the "definition" of art as "something with out rules or objectives"
so if I had to write a research paper about The Mona Lisa, and presumably follow the teacher's instructions to do so and having the objective of getting a passing grade, the Mona Lisa would no longer be art to me based on Ebert's definition.

Art should be defined as "anything that evokes an emotion for the audience on a personal level" that way Video Games don't have to be art to Roger Ebert and Poetry doesn't have to be art to me.