Someone defend the other side of this American argument.

[Snowalker]

Well, I couldn't finished cause you kept saying "Its so easy to learn..." frist off, I read somewhere English and Mandarin ae two of the most complex languages to learn. Another thing, if its so easy to go from Spainish to English why do you just go from Spainish to English?

I don't think its right that they aren't bothering to learn a little english, but I think before you rant and rave, think out your arguement frist, cause you just sound stupid.

 

[nezroy]

This thread is incredibly useful. I'm able to quickly compile a list of users whose posts I won't ever need to bother reading again.

 

[the1ultimate]

Well I like a good debate. So, here goes:

[debate]
Americans should learn Spanish because the people who speak these languages live very close to each other. You initial paragraph itself implies that Spanish speakers are common in America, and if Spanish to English and English to Spanish are both very simple conversions then it should be just as little trouble to for someone to learn Spanish to improve their ability to communicate with some of the people they meet as for a Spanish-speaking person to try and learn English. In fact Spanish could be a compulsory part of primary school. Children could grow up learning it as a secondary language in America, and this would greatly improve relations with Spanish-speaking neighbors of America.

Imagine that you had a neighbor who didn't speak your language. That would be incredibly frustrating. Now imagine that you had fortuitously learned the same language as your neighbor when you were young. Even if you only knew enough to get by, it would be so much easier to talk to them.
Imagine a slightly different scenario. Imagine that neither of the neighbors spoke the same language and constantly became frustrated at the other person because the other person never took the time to learn the language that they speak. Is this a better scenario?
[/debate]

Now from a less objective standpoint, I think that what people appreciate most is making the effort.
I know people who've gone backpacking in another country (non-English speaking, of course) without any language preparations, they just took a handbook and used a lot of gestures, and they say that you pick up enough to get by. I'm not sure about having to learn the language for every country you visit, but every person should at least be able to communicate in the language of a country they decide to become a citizen of.

Of course I only speak English, and have never learned any other language apart from some extremely basic Japanese and the numbers one through ten in German, so you can probably consider all this just so many words. English words.

 

[Del-Toro]

What the fuck is wrong with YOU? Why don't you know Spanish? They did after all colonize here before the English.

They had South America, Britan and France were dominant powers in North America.

OT: I don't think it's wrong for an immigrant to have to learn the official language of their new nation. I wouldn't move to Germany and then expect them to accomadate my desire to not learn German, I'd learn bloody German.

NSpanish is the number 2 spoken language in the USA and the numbers are rising more and more every year.

This is solely because most new immigrants seem to be illegals from Mexico. The problem isn't wanting to speak your old language to your family, it's when you assume that it means you shouldn't have to learn the language that the majority speaks that there is a problem. IE it becomes difficult to communicate with that majority, maybe one that doesn't feel it should have to bend to accomodate you.

 

[DTice69]

Yeah I know my first post was pretty cool huh? Well considering that I quoted a guy who said "fuck" I don't see the logic in treating me like a three year old just because I said "fuck" too. As for me being a dick, looking down on other people pretty much makes you a stupid ignorant ****. Maybe we should get together sometime.

Yeah, see, this is what I'm talking about. We're all adults here (or mostly, anyway) so cussing is perfectly fine. Calling someone a "stupid ignorant ****" isn't.

I couldn't agree with you more. We should all act like adults and be fine with what each other says. To say that I'm not an adult for calling you a "****" after you called me a "dick" is just plain hypocritical so whatever man. I said my two cents to somebody and didn't even want to get into it with anyone, especially you, but you forced the issue. So you can grow up too and learn not to be an instigator.

 

[DracoSuave]

Spanish is a language represented by an overwhelming amount of people in the States. Would it really hurt to learn it? They should know english, absolutely, but a bit of bilingualism is always nice. 'tis the same with French up here in Canada.

Not to split hairs, but French is an official language of Canada, not just a commonly used language.

Spanish is not an official language in America, only English is.

Would it hurt him to learn Spanish? No. Does he have to to interact with his country? No. Does the spanish speaker have to learn English to interact with his country? Yes. Would it hurt him to learn English? No.

 

[CIA]

-Snip-
simply asking for this man to speak a language which is fairly simply to understand?
-Snip-

I stopped here because English is actually one of the hardest languages in the world to learn, because it's spoken backwards.

Me too. English will fuck you up.

 

[raxer92]

Because deep down I can see no logical, feasible, or actual reason as to why Americans should have the Spanish language shoved down their throats. I work at a popular store chain here in America, and I am deeply appauled at how many Mexican individual come over here and don't even bother to learn the language correctly. I was unable to communicate with this one man, was asked if I spoke Spanish, when I replied that I didn't he had his four year old daughter come over and translate between the two of us.

Now really, what am I missing here? Is there something morally wrong with me, as a citizen of the United States of America, simply asking for this man to speak a language which is fairly simply to understand? Is it just me or is this an insult to each and every person who had learned the language, made the attempts to respect the majority of the citizens in this nation and all, or whatnot...

It is not as if I am asking them to learn Chinese or Polish here. Spanish to English an English to Spanish are both very simple conversions which can be made. However, I am honest to God offended at the fact that many of the immigrants from South American countries actually believe America SHOULD be required to speak the language of Mexico and below...just because we're attached at the hip over at Texas there.

And by all means, I've met everybody. People from Chile, Poland, Denmark, Romania, and all. My Romanian friend once refused to order from a Quiznos because he was so offended at the lady not being able to speak English (this was in Las Vegas by the way).

Him: I take the time to learn this language, become a citizen, and this damn ***** doesn't even know a few simple words?

In all modesty, why do the majority of people from Mexico hold a constant disregard for this country when it comes to the language? Someone enlighten me here.

Ok now let me give you some advice register monkey,

1: The average human brain has an immensely hard time developing new neuron pathways when it comes to development such as languages, these things need to be learn during puberty when the brain is still maturing.
2: Why do you think they use their kids to translate, many of them do know english but it comes out slurred with an accent if their older than the ages of puberty because they are unable to develop neuron pathways in order to correctly pronounce each vowel in our language
3: Most of them are working their ass off on the field while were typing responses to each other on a moronic argument, do you really think all of them have the time to sit the fuck down and learn another language when most of them are dirt poor?
4: You expect us to kick out all mexicans and spanish speaking people be they immigrants or not just because we seem to outnumber other groups in "certain" cities
5: Insulted, bwhahahhahah, insulted because she couldnt speak english? What the fuck are you the owner of the english language? Are you going to serve injustice to those who cant speak english just because they seem to be focused on surviving in america instead?
6: Wait if your so pro american and everything then why are you bitching about the spanish folk saying that you should be forced to learn another language
7: Yeah newsflash, theirs more than one language your offered to learn in high school and it is mandatory to learn the basics of another language in high school classes...oh wait, WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO DONT HAVE HIGH SCHOOL? What about those who aint got the money to buy all them classes and stuff like ingles sin barreras which costs a shit ton of money from what ive seen.
8:...I bet your white aren't you -_-
9: English...simple to understand? Well aren't you the charmer, HEY did you know that English isn't american? Really huh huh huh, we STOLE it off another country, didn't you know? We aint as fuck the first ones to make english, look look you nationalist freak, look here!

http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/Beowulf_manuscript.jpeg

And Finally a quick word of advice, "Shouldn't you know that your country states that we can do whatever the fuck we want, so if thats true then shouldn't they be able to speak whatever fucking language they want, and shouldn't you stop whining register monkey that its anti american to refuse to speak english...unless your really an insane nationalist whose going to hit other people that refuse to speak english....

ARE YOU O_O

 

[mrpenguinismyhomeboy]

There are times when a person needs to speak the dominant language. It's not a racist thing, it's just if you're directing planes on landing, everyone needs to clearly understand everyone involved. If someone can't speak English, it doesn't bother me too much. I mean the language is pretty much fucked.

Mouse = mice
House = houses
Moose = moose

I'm surprised WE understand the damned thing.

I mean, I would just say English is a whole lot more contextual, which I actually appreciate. In my opinion it's better then having to learn fifty bajillion conjugations for everything. But to somebody whose use to a lot of structure in their languages, I can see why it'd be very difficult.

 

[Xbowhyena]

Alright all, English is NOT a hard language to learn. If I was reading at a 12.9 plus in 4th grade, that says something. No one needs to know every rule of every letter in the entire language unless you of course ARE majoring in this language for college or whatever. It's like saying Chinese is hard to learn by only looking at "Traditional Chinese" and blatantly ignoring the fact that there's this other option called "SIMPLIFIED Chinese". If you're going to live in any Country, you better learn the language that is most widely spoken. I feel no need to learn any other foreign languages until I actually leave the Country, which won't be any time soon.

 

[BarkBark]

If I remember correctly, Benjamin Franklin wanted the national language to be German.

But alas they (The founders) never decided on a set national language.

On a side not - most of the billboards are in Spanish here in Houston.

 

[Steindorh]

I'm from Iceland, and we have a very large population of Filipinos, Thai, Polish and Lithuanian immigrants. Thankfully very few of them do not bother to learn the language, but that is because in most areas very cheap, or free classes are offered (although I understand we have a sort of ghetto forming in one neighbourhood, our very own Chinatown, if you will).

When I encounter people from those countries who do not speak Icelandic, I revert to English... and have hardly ever not been able to communicate that way. The few times that I have, I simply smile and point and make silly hand gestures - and then curse very loudly when they've left (I work in a video rental-type place). If I were to move to, say Hungary, I'd make the effort to learn the language, and not only by taking classes, I'd watch TV, talk to people and ask for help, make my way through books with the help of a dictionary, anything, really. And I am not afraid to admit that I expect people who move to Iceland to learn Icelandic. The grammar is hard, the syntax is a *****, but the words are very few (English has around eleven times as many words, for example), and learning Icelandic also gives you access to a language that has not changed for over a millenia. I can enter a museum, look at a page in a cowhide manuscript from the eleven-hundreds and easily read the text. A language is the key to understanding a country's culture, and despite one understandably wanting to retain the culture of the homeland, the reason for learning your adopted country's language is not only communication, it's prejudice. I am more prejudiced towards a person who lives in my country and does not make ANY effort to learn my language than I am towards someone who's been here for years, and barely speaks it - at least that person is making an effort! And I honestly believe that the same is true for many people, they're more likely to discriminate against people who've no working knowledge of the prevalent language in their country (even if said country does not have an official language, which by the way I thought the United States of N-America HAD, seeing as your constitution is written in English).

Two points, though : How do you know he's not visiting his family? That might be his brother's daughter. Or perhaps he just moved there and hasn't started taking classes yet?

Off-topic : For those who've been here longer than I, how's this for a first post? ^_^

 

[FoolKiller]

I agree with your general point: Since they're the ones coming to a new country, they should take the time to learn the language, rather than forcing the people already here to bend to their will. That said, you have presented your arguement in a less than desirable manner. When you're making a case for something, you want to remain logical and unemotional. Even if you didn't mean it that way, which I'm sure you didn't, you kind of came off as throwing a temper tantrum. Generally that makes people who don't share your opinion already turn confrontational. If you remained calm and presented your case logically, you probably could've swayed the opinions of some people who didn't agree with you.

Wow!... That was ridiculously well said. I agree totally.

There are times when a person needs to speak the dominant language. It's not a racist thing, it's just if you're directing planes on landing, everyone needs to clearly understand everyone involved. If someone can't speak English, it doesn't bother me too much. I mean the language is pretty much fucked.

Mouse = mice
House = houses
Moose = moose

I'm surprised WE understand the damned thing.

Moose doesn't belong.

The one for singular to plural of moose is as follows:

Moose --> MOOSE
Goose --> GEESE
Mongoose --> MONGOOSES .... WTF???

I am Canadian and while I didn't like having French shoved down my throat as a kid, I now see the benefits to knowing multiple languages. If I were a clerk at a store (which I have been in the past), it would be useful to speak many languages so that I could better communicate with a greater number of clientele. Now while I agree that the immigrants should learn the native language of a country, I also think that you would do well to learn Spanish (and other languages) so that you are able to communicate with a greater number of people that you come in contact with at your workplace.

 

[Bigeyez]

Yeah let me plop you in Germany and lets see how fast you speak German. Then when you try to learn the language you can feel completely embarrassed when people laugh and make fun of you because of your accent. Then when you with your horrible accent try to find jobs, biggots like your friend become "offended" because you can't speak German properly and then proceed to ***** and whine about how your defiling their country.

*rolls eyes*

To sum up why this entire thread is rediculous.

1. America doesn't have a national language, period. If the majority of America becomes hispanic, which is very possible to happen in our lifetimes if birth rates and immigration continue at the same rate they've been going, well then guess what buddy...You'd be just like those darned immigrants who don't want to learn the most common language in the U.S!

2. No ones forcing Bilingualism on anyone. If your smart you WOULD learn another language because it helps you out immensely but no ones putting a gun to your head. Knowing another language is a skill that will help you so why wouldn't you want to do it?

-----------
Im going to try and paint an example that will show you an "other side of the tracks" type of thing
-----------


Now think about this. If a person is coming into this country illigally (most immigrants don't but whatever) they are most likely coming to America because they are seeking a better life then what they currently have. They may or may not be educated and they may or may not have money.

Now if your in the situation where you have to provide for your family in a foriegn country where you know almost no one whats the first thing your going to do? It certainly isn't going to be "open a book and sit down and start learning English"...The first thought in your head is most likely going to be "where can I find a job thats going to let me put food in my families mouth".

With enough niche communities in the U.S. it's relatively easy to move into an area of a city where everyone speaks primarily your language whether it be German, Spanish, whatever. That in and of itself makes it harder for an adult to learn a foreign language because as we all know full immersion is one of the best ways for an adult to learn a new language.

Sure you might pick up the basics here and there but you with one or two full time jobs, and with no real need for it in the community your living in, will most likely never sit down to really learn full english. You probably wouldn't spend the money to take classes or buy one of those cheap tv programs that supposedly teach you a language. And even if you do you constantly feel embarassed because you know you have an accent, your know that sometimes you speak grammaticaly incorrect, and like any sane person you definitely don't like it when others make fun of you for doing so. You'd rather not speak English at all just to avoid the embarassement that people with accents like yourself go through.

Then you'll see your kids go to school and pick up the language fairly easily, which is good for them of course. Now with your kids speaking fluent english (because again we all know it's easier for younger people to learn new languages) you simply use your kid as a translator to make everything easier for yourself.

All in all you can probably go your whole life in the U.S. without fully learning the language. Would it really be some desecration of the country if you did? No of course not. America was after all founded on the principles of being a melting pot...that includes different languages you know.

 

[Xanadu84]

You don't need to toss more hate at immigrants because they don't speak English. The fact that they can't speak English is punishment enough. Whats a few second inconvenience for you is a lifetime of frustration for them. And of course they want other people to speak spanish; you want them to speak english, after all. And of course there's going to be forces from on high trying to get you to cater to the Spanish speaking people. Those Spanish speaking people have money to spend, and there money spends just as well as anyone else's. To say that no one should expect you to speak Spanish is contrary to the free market: OH NOEZ, COMMUNISTS!

 

[Akai Shizuku]

I don't think anyone should ever have any language shoved down their throats. It would be nice to promote the learning of other languages, but to force it is something I believe to be morally wrong.

Edit: I just LOVE how every political debate on The Escapist leads to communism.

 

[Ultra_Caboose]

There are times when a person needs to speak the dominant language. It's not a racist thing, it's just if you're directing planes on landing, everyone needs to clearly understand everyone involved. If someone can't speak English, it doesn't bother me too much. I mean the language is pretty much fucked.

Mouse = mice
House = houses
Moose = moose

I'm surprised WE understand the damned thing.

I mean, I would just say English is a whole lot more contextual, which I actually appreciate. In my opinion it's better then having to learn fifty bajillion conjugations for everything. But to somebody whose use to a lot of structure in their languages, I can see why it'd be very difficult.

I agree, English is hard as hell to learn. I've been speaking it all my life, and only have a semester of spanish from middle school and four years of high school japanese to go on for the comparison. I know that Japan has government funded programs to get english-speaking people over there, just to help people UNDERSTAND the damn language! I think that growing up with a single, primary language gives the illusion that it's easy, especially when other languages sound like gibberish to the untrained ear.

Now, on topic... I can understand the frustration of having to deal with people who don't speak english in a country where tha de facto language is english. I've had to deal with kids translating between me and their parents before, which I've always found odd, but I've never taken any offense to it.

It is a given that when moving to another country, one of the primary concerns should be gaining some understanding of the native tongue. However, a lot of people who come here from other countries are often illegal, and as such have to government help in learning. Language is just as much part of a cultural heritage as the culture itself, and to force another language down the throat of an immigrant just isn't right. If nothing else, they will learn in time. Total immersion is one of the fastest ways to learn, and I can imagine that if more people would take their time and be kind and helpful, it would benefit the non-speakers even more, and could even spur an interest in trying to lean the language.

 

[TheLefty]

What the fuck is wrong with YOU? Why don't you know Spanish? They did after all colonize here before the English.

England won the war that's why.

one, you Americans don't speak English, stop pretending that you do
b, this is something you have to deal with.

I take you're from England? If we don't speak English then how come we're both having an conversation in what you call English and we both understand every word.

Here's an argument. Their money is the same colour as the money you accept in exchange for goods and/or services. Accept their cash, deal with their language difficulties and stop whinging, register monkey.

It's hard to accept the money and give the person what their buying if you can't understand. One person said something about the women asking for what sounded like "pineapple and cum" instead of ham. NOw maybe it's me but I would rather have what I meant.

 

[SlasherX]

I seriously think that they need to learn it and its usually the parents that cant speak it, and their dumb asses are the ones that buy crap and fail horribley and just piss the seller off, i think they should at least learn a little engligh like can a get a big mac and fries it wouldnt even be that hard and i dont care that you whine about its hard just stfu

 

[jboking]

We endorse people keeping their culture, Spanish is part of Hispanic culture. Let them keep it. If they do not know English, give them a break. Learning a new language after a certain age is very difficult, no matter how similar the language is to the one you speak already. They may be trying, but don't yet have it under their belt. To be honest though, we as Americans have spent our time a bit backwards when compared to the rest of the world. Here we assume that you can know English and be good for the rest of your life. If you go over to Europe it is typical to know more than three, two of which you should be fluent in. So, boo hoo, they expect you to learn a language while you are still of the appropriate age to become fluent in it. If you aren't of the appropriate age, boo hoo, some people in my country don't speak the same language I do, however, I neglect that there is a such thing as nonverbal communication and that I could easily converse with this person without talking.

In the same sentiment though, we have gone leaps and bounds to insure that regular documents come in both languages, thus promoting that not knowing English is okay. So if you think it's a problem, you have to stop and realize it is a problem your society and business world perpetuates. If you just want everyone to know English before they enter the United States, then endorse turning it into the official language of the US. Of course, that won't stop people from speaking Spanish, they will just be forced to learn English. So if part of your problem is that they ramble between each other in Spanish while next to you and you get that lovely feeling that they are insulting you in a language you don't understand. well...that isn't going to go away anytime soon. Also, don't expect illegal immigrants to know English, so even if they made it the official language, you would still run across those few people who don't know it.


I seem to have lost my point somewhere in the midst of a rant. I think I may have even supported both sides...Oh well.