Someone please define EMO for me

[floppylobster]

It's someone who's emotions are easily affected by things of beauty or tragedy. Yet they have not really suffered any great hardship to warrant their deep feelings.

This type of person has been around for years (there's an 'emo' in Shakespeare's 'As You Like It'). The label emo is just the most recent tag.

 

[revjor]

In the classic sense it was birthed from the DC hardcore punk scene:

Noted vegetarian, straight edge, emotional Ian MacKaye from Minor Threat was getting disillusioned with the violence, drug and alcohol abuse and general rowdiness involved in the lifestyle and lyrics of the DC hardcore scene:

After Mac Kaye became vocal about his disillusionment Guy Piccioto agreed and formed the band Rites of Spring and layed the ground work melodically and and stylistically for what Emo was and would become. Originators never seemed to like being labeled Emo and put into their own genre. But you can't stop people from labeling:


Embrace was an Ian MacKaye band after Minor Threat dissolved often called Emo. Ian didn't like that. But you can hear the vast difference in sound between them and Minor Threat:

With Rite of Spring Emotive/Emotional Hardcore was born and began to change and evolved into newer iterations:

Eventually Ian Mac Kaye formed Fugazi which took on Rite of Spring's drummer Branden Canty who brought Guy Piccioto into the band. They aren't really emo but they are fucking amazing so fuck it:


Nowadays Emo is just a word that doen't mean much. But those are it's origins.

and one more time because it's one of the greatest songs ever:

 

[Terminal Blue]

But if you live in a first world country, your justification for trying to kill yourself will seem stupid and childish, compared to people who keep on living in miserable depressing places without hope.

It doesn't work that way.

Mental illness has absolutely nothing to do with how bad your life actually is, it's purely about how you process it.

People who kill themselves in first world countries where life isn't really a struggle I have no sympathy for, I don't hate them or anything I just don't respect them. Because I know there people out there still fighting for survival who have seen worse then these people ever will.

So what?

It's nice for you that you have so much perspective. However, the fact that you can't imagine why anyone else wouldn't doesn't prove their "weakness", it betrays your lack of imagination.

Self harm is an irritating thing for me to hear about as well, anyone who mutilates them self so bad they need money wasted on them to get better, is clearly in need of some counselling. As you can probably tell by now I'm not the sentimental type.

No. You clearly care about the plight of people in other countries, so obviously you have some empathy for other people. I think you simply just have limited understanding of mental health, which is fair enough. It's difficult to empathize with the mentally ill, if it was easy they wouldn't be mentally ill.

Actually, the worst thing you can do when someone is self-harming is try and force them to stop before they're really ready. Hard as it might be to understand, it's generally a coping mechanism for people who do it and it's probably helping them deal with something worse. The important thing at that stage is to help them manage their behavior so they aren't putting themselves in danger, increasing their chances of living long enough to actually recover. That takes a little more than counselling, it requires therapy and (quite possibly) supervision if a person's self-harming behavior is serious enough.

I'm not trying to justify myself here. I never self-harmed, and I don't get people who do any more than you do. But I do know what compulsion feels like.

Just giving them a hug won't fix the problem, just show them self harm is a great attention grab, they need to be told to find a productive use of their time.

No, it won't fix the problem but in the short term nothing will.

This is what I don't get. If someone is cutting themselves up to the point they need surgery, do you really think "be more normal" is going to be the inspiring advice which turns their life around? Amazingly, it isn't. I have genuine difficulty seeing why anyone would imagine it would be.

Weirdly though, I do understand on a level. Personally, depressed people infuriate me because they have no self-preservation instinct when it comes to their emotions, and it really upsets me because I remember what it was like to be like that. So yeah, on the rare occasion I end up talking to anyone I suspect may be depressed I tend to be really harsh. But that's a very different thing to being unsympathetic. Telling someone who is doing something dangerous to take themselves seriously and go seek medical help is worth it because it might theoretically save their life. Deliberately ignoring the fact that someone is in a pretty desperate situation because you don't want to "reward" them by acknowledging is.. kind of pathetic in terms of the sheer messed-up priorities it suggests.

Sorry.. I'm not angry, I'm actually kind of confused as to how anyone could imagine this works.

 

[Mr F.]

Are 'Emos' still going?
I thought a new trend would have come in by now but clearly not.
I always thought Emos were kids with too much make-up, bad hair, wrote bad poetry and liked to sing My Chemical Romance as they wept into their pillow.

It takes a hell of a lot of balls (Yes, I said balls) to actually kill yourself. It is surprisingly difficult.

I agree with you 100%.

Suicide is known as the cowards way out but you need some serious balls to actually pull it off.

Its strange, I see it as both. You know, an incredibly cowardly thing to do that will fuck up everyone around you (A thought that has kept me alive. I mean, right now, my family is going through hell and my girlfriend dumped me a week ago. So I keep alive by saying "Dont do anything, it would fuck them up, what with dads death, and [Redacted] would be ReALLY fucked up if you did it") but it takes serious balls to do it. I guess the only reason I am alive is cause I am a coward, too much of a coward xD.

Emos are emos, they are harmless people who should be given a hug and a smoke. Not hated on cause they have some bad addicting habits and shit like that.

And when they grow up they either become goths again, just grow up out of it or just end up being a moderately depressed 20something.

If I may be so bold, no woman is worth contemplating suicide over(like-wise no man is worth it).
You might be experiencing hell now but I've always believed that mountains only have two routes - down and up. When you're up you have to come down at some point but eventually; you will have to go back up. Why? Because to give up at the bottom with your legs crossed and arms folded is a way to ruin.

You're not a coward because you haven't done the act.
Human nature dictates you fight to survive. Some people can overcome it when they feel the world is truly ending but the majority don't.

I would just like to point out that I am not contemplating suicide over a woman. Never have been that stupid. The fact that my partner just left me is conjecture, part of the reason she left is because I am a pretty messed up individual who simply was not ready for a relationship. I became dangerously codependant very quickly, plus a bunch of other reasons. That aside, the random platitudes of an internet stranger are not particularly likely to snap me or anyone else out of a brooding depression. That is in no means an attack upon your gesture, it does make me happy that people are willing to try and help others, it is a mere statement of fact. Once people have got to the point that they are contemplating doing themselves permanent harm nothing but themselves can drag them out of it. As for the whole mountain metaphor? To apply it to myself would be thus: Whenever an attempt to climb the mountain surfaces, I do something to prevent it from being possible. That is the sad fact of depression, that is the sad fact of bi-polar depression. Times appear when it looks like everything is all better this time around, that things can and will get better, but usually those come down to manic episodes.

Most of the post was my personal thoughts of suicide. I am a coward, a self confessed coward, with little strength to succeed. It is my cowardice that has kept me alive, I am simply not brave enough to hurt others to the extent to which part of me wants to (Not brave enough? Perhaps kind enough).

Self harm, I agree on that. In some situations. The kind of person who leaves chicken scratches on their arms and go on about how it makes them feel, fuck them. The kind of person who barely draws blood, fuck them. The kind of person who does so much damage to their leg they get free plastic surgery from the NHS because their ankle no longer looks like an ankle? Hug them. Help them. Love them. They need it. Self harm existed before emos, most emos do not self harm and not all who self harm are emo.

Just to point out. People self-harm for very different reasons. Generally, people start out doing it because the adrenaline makes them feel better, which means they don't need to do much damage to themselves. Sure, it's not dangerous because they're still very much in control, but the fact that they need to do that, the fact that the best way for someone to feel "up" for a moment is to stimulate adrenaline by hurting themselves is not a good sign.

In medical terms, yes, you should always focus on the people who cannot control or manage their self-harming behavior because they are a more immediate risk to themselves when they do it. If someone is at any risk of doing permanent harm to themselves, they do need urgent treatment. But in terms of who "who is worse" you really can't tell. It's worth noting that many depressed people and some suicidal people never self-harm at all. It's not a particularly good indicator of how bad someone's mental state is.

Yes yes, people self harm for many different reasons. Due to the adrenal release, due to the flood of endorphins as the skin is parted, due to a self-obsessed quest to feel anything due to feeling numb for quite some time, out of desperation, to show themselves and others that they really are getting torn apart by life, to hide behind something so deep and personal that nobody can ever no about it, to have some form of self control in a life that totally lacks it.

I have met them. From all walks of life, all colours. Musicians earning thousands who still slice open the roof of their mouth because that heals fast and nobody notices, ballet dancers who can only work in roles that involve wearing black because skin coloured tights are too see through and would allow people to see their legs, athletes who have given up swimming and running because doing so would mean they would have to admit what they have done. It is deep, it is personal... I am ranting here.

But from a personal perspective, from the perspective of one who has taken friends to hospital, one who has not been able to wear a t-shirt since they were fourteen, one who is terrified of the look on a partners face the first time my top comes off and is crushed by the look of concern thereafter, people who scratch at themselves, so lightly as to cause no damage and gain no release, people who truly ARE doing it for the attention garner nothing but hate with me. There are multiple reasons people hate the idea of "Emo" and whilst I am willing to fight to the last against that hatred, in the name of people who were or are as fucked up as I am and used to be, the people who show off their cuts, those who post it online, those who draw them on (I have met people like this), those who glorify the blood, the harm, whilst doing almost nothing, they give people like me a bad name.

People who suffer in silence and hide behind pseudonyms in order to talk about this crap. People who when they come across some random image, buried in a youtube video or posted on a forum without warning end up shuddering in fear, end up thinking about nothing but hurting themselves. You see, self harm is done for a variety of reasons, you accept that. I know I am incoherent (Its tired and this has, I will freely admit, triggered me. Which is so much fucking fun.) but my general point is this.

I will look after anyone who is in real trouble, I will hug anyone who needs a hug. I will fight against stupid fucking stereotypes that are perpetuated against teenagers who are miserable. Yet within that culture there are posers, people who genuinely fucking pretend to hurt themselves, and they make me angry. When I refer to chicken scratches that is what I am referring to, something so tiny as to be ignored. When someone gets scratched by their cat they do not go on and fucking on about how beautiful the pain is and how the release is perfect. That is my point, the crux of my argument.

I apologise for this post. I really do. Its rambling and insane. I think I made a point there somewhere. Something about hating people who give depressed people an even worse name. That sounds about right.

As for how good an indicator of someones mental health it is? Well, it usually indicates that someone is pretty fucked up. Just saying.

EDIT:

Just dropping in for 30 seconds.

One: Doesnt matter if you understand why someone killed themselves, people do not just do it. It takes a hell of a lot of balls (Yes, I said balls) to actually kill yourself. It is surprisingly difficult.

Two: Self harm, I agree on that. In some situations. The kind of person who leaves chicken scratches on their arms and go on about how it makes them feel, fuck them. The kind of person who barely draws blood, fuck them. The kind of person who does so much damage to their leg they get free plastic surgery from the NHS because their ankle no longer looks like an ankle? Hug them. Help them. Love them. They need it. Self harm existed before emos, most emos do not self harm and not all who self harm are emo.

Three: What is wrong with wanting attention? This always pissed me off. "Oh, look at him, he cut himself cause he wants attention." if its bad enough that someone is HARMING THEMSELVES then just give them a hug. Whats wrong with giving someone a hug?

Emos used to get a lot of hate here. It died down. I hope it stays dead. Hating on random angsty teenagers because you don't like the way they dress is just ridiculous.

1. Never tried to kill myself. But if you live in a first world country, your justification for trying to kill yourself will seem stupid and childish, compared to people who keep on living in miserable depressing places without hope. I have no sympathy for anyone who tires to kill them self. I've been to places in Africa and Thailand which make most places in Britain look like Heaven, people will continue to live in these shit holes. They work hard they suffer but ultimately they keep on living. Some of them of course do end it all, but the vast majority will stick it out.
People who kill themselves in first world countries where life isn't really a struggle I have no sympathy for, I don't hate them or anything I just don't respect them. Because I know there people out there still fighting for survival who have seen worse then these people ever will.

2. Self harm is an irritating thing for me to hear about as well, anyone who mutilates them self so bad they need money wasted on them to get better, is clearly in need of some counselling. As you can probably tell by now I'm not the sentimental type.

3. You should get attention for being interesting, cutting yourself so people feel sorry for you is pathetic without being pitiable. If you want acknowledgement become a better person and try to get others to like you by being nice and helpful ect. The sappy "oh we should just give them a big hug" thing has always annoyed me. It implies everyone else is doing something wrong, rather than the weirdo taking chunks out of their own flesh. Just giving them a hug won't fix the problem, just show them self harm is a great attention grab, they need to be told to find a productive use of their time.

Also I have never hated emo's I met my first girl friend when she was one.

I am replying to this because it was a misquoted attempt at quoting myself.

1. Moral relativism is a pile of shit. You are judging that someone who attempts to kill themself does not have the justification based on what exactly? That other people have it harder then them? Moral relativism is bullshit. Lets pull all wellfare spending because people in Africa have it worse so people in poverty in the west have no right to explain. Who cares about foreign dictators that kill their people, Hitler was worse.

This attitude is insane.

Suicide is never a rational choice. It is not about thinking you are in the worse place on earth, it is not about thinking that nobody on earth has it worse then you. It is about thiinking that your own life is pointless, that your own life hurts too much to carry on. it is about looking at your prospects and believing there is nothing there. You have no sympathy for the mentally ill? Then fuck you. Fuck you and fuck you hard. Was my ex wrong for trying to kill herself after being violated multiple times? Apparently. Apparently you have no sympathy for people who have been raped. How about a soldier who comes home and realises what he has done? Do you have sympathy for him? Or the doctor who just cannot take loosing another child, the psychologist who cannot deal with how unhappy the world is any more?

Your lack of sympathy is disturbing. This worldview that if others have it worse there is nothing to ever complain about is fucking destructive. Yes, the people of Syria have it worse then I do. Wont stop me from protesting about the cuts to the Welfare state.

2. Well, counselling costs money. Self harm is an interesting one, see my above rant on the issue. Strangely, I can more easily understand this view then the above view.

3. Now, people cut themselves for multiple reasons. Including attention. My point still holds though, what the fuck is wrong with giving someone attention if they DESPERATELY NEED IT. Christ alive. Be kind to others regardless. You call me pitiable. By association, you call me a weirdo. You seem to believe that by telling someone like me that self harm is an attention grab will help. How exactly? How? The only people who know about it are my various ex partners and a friend who is trying to help me get out of this rut. By definition those of us who hide it are not trying to gain attention.

And productive use of your time?

Fucking seriously?

Have you never met someone who suffers from depression? Have you never met someone who struggles with life? Fucking seriously. A more constructive use of their time? For some people it is the only way to deal with everything that goes on around them, the only way that they can keep doing anything. Yes, I admit that going for a walk is a far better way of dealing with things. It is why I go for a lot of walks.

You may not hate "Emos" but you certainly hold anyone who has ever suffered form depression in disdain and have an utterly unrealistic and destructive worldview. Far from being unsympathetic, you are a callous and vicious human. I have sworn multiply in my response, I do not wish to do so further. You, ser, fill me with anger.

Find and interview a random psychiatrist or psychologist. Or perhaps just talk to a friend who is going through some shit. Then maybe, just maybe, you will end up with enough understanding for a single thing you say to be based in reality. Then maybe you will be able to speak on the issue without causing so much anger.

 

[AgentNein]

I'm not an expert, but I believe it was originally a musical sub-genre of punk. I'm not really a punk fan though (I do however, have an interest in getting into crust punk someday) so I can't say for certain. I believe it turned into more of a (very shitty) fashion over time, and less musically focused. Emo seems to have been around for quite some time though, because there is some graffiti to the extent of "Fuck Emo" in an old GG Allin song, which was early 80's or so. It's been around for awhile, though in the previous decade I think it was more of a trendy teenage thing rather than any kind of solid musical undertaking.

Though, as always, I could be wrong. If the emo culture has something to be thanked for, it's the chicks. I've seen some pretty fine looking ones.

Edit: Just out of interest, can someone more versed in the subject than I, tell me how close I am to accuracy?

You're pretty much right on from what I can see. You had hardcore punk come about as an offshoot of punk in the 80's, and emo was an offshoot from that. Hardcore tended to be political, angry music, and the reaction to that from some musicians in the hardcore scene was to shoot for more introspective, emotional (hence emo) lyricism. Of course as with any subcultural movement it gained traction til about ten to fifteen years later the perpetual dinosaur of pop culture finally discovered, ate, and then regurgitated it back out. Emo as teen fad. That's not a knock on the kids who bought into that whole thing mind you, we all get into what we get into somewhere. And I'm sure we've got some killer truly inspired musicians and artists out there today who are into and making what they're into now cuz of some shitty uninspired by the numbers major label crank-out that flipped their switch five to ten years ago.

 

[verdant monkai]

Sorry.. I'm not angry, I'm actually kind of confused as to how anyone could imagine this works.

I wasn't trying to imply I had the cure all answer to it all, I have however been told activity takes your mind off things, and yes I have a limited knowledge of psychology. I was trying to imply that I dont care, in my experience people who self harm are generally attention seekers possessed of a weak will (I understand that is a sweeping generalisation based on my own personal experiences). These sorts of people are the people I want nothing to do with, and to be quite honest I like to live in the real world where I have better things to care about, like getting paid and fed etc.

I have a vibrant imagination thank you very much, and I can imagine quite a few situations where people would commit suicide. Like the love of their life has died, they've been in a depressing dead end job for 40 years which is going no where, their kids have died. There are a load of reasons why people might, I happen to have a strong survivor instinct. So I find it difficult to empathise with them when I've been to third world countries and seen people going through worse. Some of us may have it bad but there's always someone who has it worse.

So as I said earlier I have got better things to care about, than people who would prefer to cut themselves or jump off a cliff, instead of picking themselves up and making an effort.

 

[Olas]

Seriously OP? Isn't this kinda what google is for? Emo is pretty much over from what I gather, I never understood it to begin with.

 

[wolf thing]

Well when i was in high school a year or so back, it was used to describes some one who cuts then selfs. what most people are talking about is what i would call goths but i did notice that in my school people often used the two interchangeable. so i supposed its meaning has changed over time and probably differs depending upon were you live.

 

[Ignatz_Zwakh]

This is STILL a question people ask on forums?

 

[NearLifeExperience]

This is STILL a question people ask on forums?

This.

Seriously OP, where have you been for all these years? This fad is on it's way back now.
All the kids are dubstep loving bronies these days.