Sony finds "proof" Anon was involved in PSN hack
- Thread starter StriderShinryu
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It's excessively unlikely that Sony would be lying, or planted this themselves.AdumbroDeus said:
If they were lying, it wouldn't be corroborated by the external security firms' own reports to Congress, and the FBI would drop a ten-ton hammer on Sony for non-compliance in a criminal investigation. PR disaster/attempt to save face or not, they'd still get shut down for that kind of stunt.
And if they planted it themselves, well...said firms and/or the FBI's own investigation would eventually uncover the bread crumbs for that. It'd end pretty much the same as if they were out-right lying.
In short, no, it does not make it far more likely for them to shed legal responsibility by fabricating evidence/lying to implicate someone else (especially since that someone else isn't an actual organization, as far as the law is concerned, and the fact that they're all anonymous in the first place), since it would only accomplish exactly the opposite. If you think Sony is lying about the particular pieces of evidence that were made public in the response to Congress' questions on the situation, you really should have your head examined. They stand to gain nothing, and lose everything.
All that aside, that's not to suggest that Anonymous is actually to blame. Like I've said before...this is completely out of their league.
Well, it seems even Anon thinks that Anon was involved... as much as can happen with a supposedly amorphous undefined "legion" can anyway.
http://kotaku.com/#!5799421/report-hackers-say-anonymous-likely-behind-sony-attacks
" "The hacker that did this was supporting OpSony's movements," one member of Anonymous told the FT, naming the group that went after Sony earlier this year, adding that he had seen technical details of a the vulnerability that enabled the break-in discussed on an Anonymous chatroom shortly before the intrusion.
Another member told the FT that the attack on Sony's PlayStation Network and Qriocity services could have been perpetrated by other members of the group. "
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http://kotaku.com/#!5799421/report-hackers-say-anonymous-likely-behind-sony-attacks
" "The hacker that did this was supporting OpSony's movements," one member of Anonymous told the FT, naming the group that went after Sony earlier this year, adding that he had seen technical details of a the vulnerability that enabled the break-in discussed on an Anonymous chatroom shortly before the intrusion.
Another member told the FT that the attack on Sony's PlayStation Network and Qriocity services could have been perpetrated by other members of the group. "
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I wouldn't be surprised if that were somehow the case here. Not necessarily in the form of a stolen/misplaced laptop, but in the sense that Sony may well have been looking at the high level detailed view of things while the exploit was just something silly and minor. I have a decent bit of experience in the security industry and I find that to often be the cause. Someone wonders how a break in could have possibly occurred at their Fort Knox like compound only to find out that an employee had just left the back door unlocked on his way out after work one day.Flammable said:
Most 'official' (and I'm using that in the loosest term possible) acts by Anonymous are targeted without motivation for profit, and responsibility is claimed soon after or even beforehand.
This is a case where hackers were clearly motivated by profit, and it doesn't have any political/social/vindictive motivations that usually characterize Anonymous attacks. Either Sony's taking the piss like the WBC was in an effort to get extra attention, or this is the same as a bank robber named Bill wearing a name tag that says "Steve" to try and throw off police.
This is a case where hackers were clearly motivated by profit, and it doesn't have any political/social/vindictive motivations that usually characterize Anonymous attacks. Either Sony's taking the piss like the WBC was in an effort to get extra attention, or this is the same as a bank robber named Bill wearing a name tag that says "Steve" to try and throw off police.
I don't think proof could get any flimsier than that. It's not like "anonymous" and "we are legion" are such unknown phrases, anyone could quickly type up that into a little text file and there you go. You'd think with all of the money Sony has that they would throw some money into security that says who accesses their servers and when. Assuming they had something like that they'd at least have some kind of proof that makes more sense then, "Anonymous left a nice little note for us." I've got to agree with some of the people in this thread: this doesn't sound like something Anonymous would do, it's probably a lie on Sony's part or the actual hackers (poorly) covering their tracks.
Do elaborate. They're chiefly known for non-profit DDoS attacks to prove a point, and not anything that could be remotely construed as criminal to this extent. Anonymous (as much as I disagree with their methods), is a collective that aims for end-users' benefits against big corporations, and tend to shy away from anything anywhere close to something of this magnitude.Flammable said:
Whether they're capable of something like this, true, does remain to be seen, but given their track record, it's extremely unlikely. Despite my wanting them nailed to a wall as well, given their subversive involvement in this, I'm going on a limb to be unbiased towards them, listing them as unlikely in such an attack. They're known for scripting attacks to disable websites, not tearing through several layers of security and leaving no immediate trail and very little evidence upon extensive investigation. Honestly, even if this were in the realm of possibility for their members (which I honestly believe it isn't, but that's an opinion), I don't think now would be a time they'd come out to admit it.
As far as your "wife working at Sony for several years"; whether or not that is indeed factual, your post seems to suggest that that's no longer the case (I certainly would appreciate that, I doubt it's a fun job), so that sort of statement is speculation, at best.
The actual hackers actually covered their tracks pretty well (from all the reports, and evidence thus far presented; believe it or not, anything put forward to Congress is pretty much a safe bet to not be a lie or half-truth); most likely it's a plant by them to deflect attention and have the public breathing down Anonymous' throats, or someone in AnonOps (responsible for the DDoS attacks against Sony during the time window of the breach) left it behind as a matter of pride. Either way, given their current situation, Sony definitely can't be lying about it, otherwise they'd be dealing with a complete shut-down of those two specific brands, and not just "We're trying to get you online, but we want to be sure your information is secured.".The Grim Ace said:
Besides, they weren't submitting it as "proof" of any sort of indication to responsible parties, simply that it was a file found during the investigation after the attack; something that doesn't normally exist on their servers.
Precisely.k-ossuburb said:
Oh no, Sony submitted all their findings to Congress! Obviously, they know who did this, and are totally just lying to the FBI to make sure the real criminals get away with it!
If you're that paranoid about your identity being stolen, change your credit card and/or contact a national hotline that deals with credit regulation, and look into your options. Tin-foil hats don't protect you against someone looking you up on Facebook and taking a line of credit out on you.
Hello. I am Kazuo Hirai.
You can tell that this statement is a definitive proof because It realy is me. Kazuo Hirai
With love from Kazuo Hirai
You can tell that this statement is a definitive proof because It realy is me. Kazuo Hirai
With love from Kazuo Hirai
You know, not to get off-topic, here (though I suppose it'd be a welcome change, given that we're all just going to repeat ourselves over and over again regarding the very bad idea of lying to Congress and the FBI in the midst of a criminal investigation), but I've never really understood how the tin-foil hat concept jumped from the Government mind-reading conspiracy to the alien one.Selvec said:
I mean, I know they're borderline-"bad crazy" and all, but if aliens are presumably so technologically advanced, how in the blazes does anyone think tin-foil is going to stop them?
Seriously, isn't it "microwaves", for that one? Stick a tin-foil ball in a microwave and let everyone know how that turns out. Although, it'd be amusing to see all the Alien Conspiracy nut-jobs (and I am very specific about that; I'm referring solely to those that are both believers in an alien conspiracy AND bat-shit insane) running amok with their heads on fire.
'It's not our fault! See, this underground group that isn't a real group that is made up of nerds that got angry at us decided to take down our system! They hacked into all our top security areas and took all your private information!'Busdriver580 said:
And people everywhere faceplam.
I still agree that their security could have been better (then again, that's always the case), but it's hardly fair to suggest that they can control every possible thing that could go wrong. 3DS' launch had a few kinks, and those won't get ironed out for a bit. I suppose we all facepalmed to that when the earthquake/tsunami hit and delayed future production?Hive Mind said:
Natural disaster or engineered by human beings, it's all the same. Some things are just out of your control.
'Knowing' it was Anonymous is about as useful as knowing it was, well,... Anonymous.
I mean, they do know what 'anonymous' means, right?
"We have proof that it was nameless, faceless people that never give out information, and aren't in fact, a group at all."
"GENIUS! We've got them now!"
I mean, they do know what 'anonymous' means, right?
"We have proof that it was nameless, faceless people that never give out information, and aren't in fact, a group at all."
"GENIUS! We've got them now!"
Given that the two of the best network security firms in the country and a global monolith company all working together took almost 72 hours to even find any sort of inclination that an intrusion occurred, I'd hardly call those responsible "amateurs". Sony shut down the entire network when they noticed a couple of offline servers (that were dropped down due to the Denial of Service attack) restarted without instruction from any of them.Hive Mind said:
I mean, sure, you're welcome to blame whoever you like. While the security definitely could have been better (and as I said, this is always the case, no matter how good your security is; nothing is unhackable), it just tends to be a little skewed when you point your finger at them, given the circumstances. I'm not suggesting AnonOps is to blame, but their protest certainly didn't help matters. Someone decided to take advantage of the situation, and did so.
You're also welcome to not believe a single word out of Sony's mouth. As with any company of their stature, one should expect spin whenever they're giving info to the public, but the evidence presented to Congress is a different matter entirely; they can't lie to them in regards to a criminal investigation, or they will get shut down, pure and simple.
Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that money can buy some pretty nice legal loopholes and some pretty expensive lawyers to exploit them. Kinda like how the extremely wealthy always seem to get off with a slap on the wrist.rmb1983 said:
One would have to be really naive to believe the criminal justice system works.
EDIT: That was unnecessarily caustic; let's try this again.Hive Mind said:
I admire the (what I consider) strained logic on your part. It's creative, it could actually fit, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Your stance on everything mentioned in our exchange is far too cynical for us to be in agreement.
One thing I do have to refute, though, is that whether or not you have any faith in the justice system or not (I certainly have little to none), you have to admit: Planting evidence and/or lying while working with the FBI, then throwing it in Congress' face is going to most likely produce a result that'll send Sony's staff to the nearest Staples (OfficeDepot? Office supply store of choice) to get "Going Out of Business Sale!" signs made.
EDIT2: I imagine Kevin Butler would be a line-cutter.
