Space Marines: They're becoming wimpier with each generation (Now with added ORK!)

[TwistedEllipses]

Why are people comparing fictional characters, from completely different fictional universes?

Does anyone see the "apples and oranges" here?

I've got to say oranges are rubbish apples. They don't even have a friggen' core!
...and don't even get me started on Mandarins and Clementines...

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

 

[samsprinkle]

The 40K Space Marine game is shaping up to suck, continuity-wise.
The gun doesn't shoot full-blown rockets, it shoots bullets, and it's supposed to focus on close combat, which space marines simply aren't built for.
But yes, 40K Space marines can be considered the epitome of manliness.(Assuming 'epitome' means what I think it does.)

What do you mean space marines aren't equipped for close quarters!? They are space marines! They have frickin priests with CHAINSAWS!

Not so much saying they aren't, it's just more seems like they should be shooting and trying not to die; my Necrons have fallen many a time to Space Marines in close quarters.

Oh...yeah, I guess super advanced soldiers MIGHT conisder using rifles and such...but oh well...

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

 

[Kadamon]

Dude, they wear big armor because they ARE big, about 12 feet tall and need a lot of armor to cover themselves. If you want sleek, stay AWAY from Space Marines, because staying alive is better than looking SEXY to the opposite RACE

http://mind-games.com/temp40/w4k.jpg

Does a shoulder plate really need to be THAT sophisticated?

Why are they 12 feet tall in the first place? How is that practical?

Because they were born that way?

Astartes were made different from humans, gene-created to be the most powerful and ultimate soldiers of all time. They have 4 lungs, 2 heart, and a lot of other extra things in their body. You can't fit it all in the human anatomy.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

They changed it. Its if you pass you get to charge.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

They changed it. Its if you pass you get to charge.

Shows you how long it's been since I've faced Templars =p

The Chapters I've faced recently: "The Golden Avengers", "The Shadow of the Emperor", and "The Imperial Vanguard", all with their own color schemes.

 

[Eipok Kruden]

Dude, they wear big armor because they ARE big, about 12 feet tall and need a lot of armor to cover themselves. If you want sleek, stay AWAY from Space Marines, because staying alive is better than looking SEXY to the opposite RACE

http://mind-games.com/temp40/w4k.jpg

Does a shoulder plate really need to be THAT sophisticated?

Why are they 12 feet tall in the first place? How is that practical?

Because they were born that way?

Astartes were made different from humans, gene-created to be the most powerful and ultimate soldiers of all time. They have 4 lungs, 2 heart, and a lot of other extra things in their body. You can't fit it all in the human anatomy.

I know they were genetically engineered, but why do they need to be 12 feet tall, have 4 lungs, 2 hearts, and tons of backup organs? If something is 12 feet tall, it's a lot harder to maneuver and a lot easier to shoot. The Space Marines also have to drive specially made vehicles to accommodate their size. Why were they engineered so impractically? That is NOT what a super-soldier should be. A super soldier is something like the Master Chief. Small, lean, fast, agile, and efficient. He can use any weapon and any vehicle he can get his hands on and he's extremely powerful and fast due to the powered exoskeleton he's in.

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

They changed it. Its if you pass you get to charge.

Shows you how long it's been since I've faced Templars =p

The Chapters I've faced recently: "The Golden Avengers", "The Shadow of the Emperor", and "The Imperial Vanguard", all with their own color schemes.

I use the 'Dawnscythes' Formed from a warp trapped unit of loyalist marines of the Death guard who missed the heresy.

 

[Kadamon]

Dude, they wear big armor because they ARE big, about 12 feet tall and need a lot of armor to cover themselves. If you want sleek, stay AWAY from Space Marines, because staying alive is better than looking SEXY to the opposite RACE

http://mind-games.com/temp40/w4k.jpg

Does a shoulder plate really need to be THAT sophisticated?

Why are they 12 feet tall in the first place? How is that practical?

Because they were born that way?

Astartes were made different from humans, gene-created to be the most powerful and ultimate soldiers of all time. They have 4 lungs, 2 heart, and a lot of other extra things in their body. You can't fit it all in the human anatomy.

I know they were genetically engineered, but why do they need to be 12 feet tall, have 4 lungs, 2 hearts, and tons of backup organs? If something is 12 feet tall, it's a lot harder to maneuver and a lot easier to shoot. The Space Marines also have to drive specially made vehicles to accommodate their size. Why were they engineered so impractically? That is NOT what a super-soldier should be. A super soldier is something like the Master Chief. Small, lean, fast, agile, and efficient. He can use any weapon and any vehicle he can get his hands on and he's extremely powerful and fast due to the powered exoskeleton he's in.

*A Space Marine Astartes takes a blow to the chest, the round penetrating deep into his organs, ripping apart his lungs and heart*

*He shrugs them off, the wounds quickly healing themselves and re-orienting his breath and cardio to his other side of the body, making up for the organs*

To be big is to be better, can you really say that Master Chief could stop a man into oblivion? (Or survive getting ran over by a jeep...)

 

[Undead Dragon King]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

They changed it. Its if you pass you get to charge.

Shows you how long it's been since I've faced Templars =p

The Chapters I've faced recently: "The Golden Avengers", "The Shadow of the Emperor", and "The Imperial Vanguard", all with their own color schemes.

I use the 'Dawnscythes' Formed from a warp trapped unit of loyalist marines of the Death guard who missed the heresy.

Inspired by "Flight of the Einstein"? The Horus Heresy series is pure genius, and excellent reading!

 

[Simriel]

Ehh, I've always thought that 40K Space Marines were wimpy.

Or is that just because I play the Tau?

The Tau are wimpy as hell they cant take close combat and all they really have going for them is guns with an insane range.

Well, the Fire Warriors are a definite plus against marines, especially combined with a good Markerlight barrage from Pathfinders.

But I was not specifically talking about Fire Warriors. I was referring to the Vespids with their marine-killer guns, as well as Crisis Suits with their Plasma Rifles and let's not forget SNIPER DRONES! Marines are soooo easy to kill for Tau players.

Then you sir, have never fought a good marine player. A well written marine list will tromp tau. and vespid are a very silly choice. As much as the guns they carry can kill marines, the bolter is actually about twice as effective against them. Battlesuits and the like die under krak missiles. You have no idea how many commanders iv pot shotted with a good krak missile, and sniper drones die in the face of a scout unit with a power sword.

I can say the same for you, sir. Please bear with me as I explain how a well-written Cadre can crush Marines.

Vespid are a great choice against Marines. They aren't meant to be used as a part of the gun line. When the Assault Squads get close enough to threaten the Fire Warriors, light them up with Pathfinders. The Vespid jump over to the marines from the flanks. Using the BS 5 from the Markerlights, they savage the squad with blaster fire, then assault what's left. They have high initiative and WS, and can easily handle the shattered remnants of the squad. They are also immune from retaliatory fire from the other squads.

I do have an idea of how many commanders you would take out with pot-shots against a good Tau player: very few, if any. With battlesuits, it's jump from cover, blast away, jump behind cover. Krak missile potshots should never be a factor against mobile battlesuits. Even if you are able to draw a bead on the commander with Krak Missiles, he should have either a shield generator, shield drones, and/or bodyguards to take the hit for him. This is especially good against pesky deep-striking terminators, as the protection can easily weather the Storm Bolter & Autocannon fire for a turn before breaking out the Plasma Rifles.

As for the Sniper Drones, I never leave them unprotected to be prey for infiltrating Scout Marines. I like to keep a modest unit of Kroot close by, both to protect the snipers as well as foiling infiltration possibilites. And boy, do Rail Rifles kill dem Marines good.

It just came to me that this neither of us can win here. We both obviously have experience killing other races. The thing that i get to boast about is that i win about 90% of the games i play, and i use a general purpose list. Not written to combat one army. Just a general list.

Indeed. You're right. I just really get into discussing strategy. Tau have a really steep difficulty curve, and I'm proud of my abilities as a Cadre commander now. The only race I can't seem to find a strategy to beat are those damn Eldar...

A well written eldar list is doom. In fact its the only army i systematically get my ass kicked by. Ended a 20 odd game winning streak twice. Also i win a lot because im a RARE kind of marine player, who uses tactics.

You'll always find players who refuse to use tactics with their armies. You also rarely see tacticians from Necrons, Guard, Orks, Tyranids, or other "Horde" armies. Races like the Dark Eldar, regular Eldar, Tau, and Grey Knights DEMAND strategy in order to win consistently. I found that out the hard way when I started playing the Tau.

If i wanted to throw tactics out the window i would go back to my Black Templar. I miss chapter traits though...

Yeah, I guess there's bugger-all strategy involved with them. "Even if we fail our leadership tests...CHARGE!"

They changed it. Its if you pass you get to charge.

Shows you how long it's been since I've faced Templars =p

The Chapters I've faced recently: "The Golden Avengers", "The Shadow of the Emperor", and "The Imperial Vanguard", all with their own color schemes.

I use the 'Dawnscythes' Formed from a warp trapped unit of loyalist marines of the Death guard who missed the heresy.

Inspired by "Flight of the Einstein"? The Horus Heresy series is pure genius, and excellent reading!

GYAHH!!!! I was using the dawnscythes in 4th ed! PRE-GARRUS! never read them the books, been told they are good. But now everyone thinks i ripped them off!

 

[keyton777]

Dude, they wear big armor because they ARE big, about 12 feet tall and need a lot of armor to cover themselves. If you want sleek, stay AWAY from Space Marines, because staying alive is better than looking SEXY to the opposite RACE

http://mind-games.com/temp40/w4k.jpg

Does a shoulder plate really need to be THAT sophisticated?

Why are they 12 feet tall in the first place? How is that practical?

Because they were born that way?

Astartes were made different from humans, gene-created to be the most powerful and ultimate soldiers of all time. They have 4 lungs, 2 heart, and a lot of other extra things in their body. You can't fit it all in the human anatomy.

I know they were genetically engineered, but why do they need to be 12 feet tall, have 4 lungs, 2 hearts, and tons of backup organs? If something is 12 feet tall, it's a lot harder to maneuver and a lot easier to shoot. The Space Marines also have to drive specially made vehicles to accommodate their size. Why were they engineered so impractically? That is NOT what a super-soldier should be. A super soldier is something like the Master Chief. Small, lean, fast, agile, and efficient. He can use any weapon and any vehicle he can get his hands on and he's extremely powerful and fast due to the powered exoskeleton he's in.

*A Space Marine Astartes takes a blow to the chest, the round penetrating deep into his organs, ripping apart his lungs and heart*

*He shrugs them off, the wounds quickly healing themselves and re-orienting his breath and cardio to his other side of the body, making up for the organs*

To be big is to be better, can you really say that Master Chief could stop a man into oblivion? (Or survive getting ran over by a jeep...)

well, he wouldnt get hit by said jeep cause he would just jump or step out of the way...
and i think a rocket to the face will pretty much kill ur 12ft freak on legs.
which a smaller and faster normal human could find and fire with ease.
size doesnt make you powerful, size mean literally nothing more than a big target in battle, the smaller the faster, the less often you die
simple

 

[Eipok Kruden]

*A Space Marine Astartes takes a blow to the chest, the round penetrating deep into his organs, ripping apart his lungs and heart*

*He shrugs them off, the wounds quickly healing themselves and re-orienting his breath and cardio to his other side of the body, making up for the organs*

To be big is to be better, can you really say that Master Chief could stop a man into oblivion? (Or survive getting ran over by a jeep...)

The Master Chief's energy shields would protect him from that shot so it would never have penetrated his armor. He doesn't need extra organs. And yes, he could survive getting run over by a jeep, he just can't in the games for the sake of balancing. If every player took 10 tank shells to the face to bring down, I don't think it would be very fun. In the first level of the Halo 3 campaign, he crashed into a jungle in africa after leaping out of a giant spaceship. If he can survive a fall all the way from the atmosphere down to the floor of a jungle in africa, I'm pretty sure he can survive a jeep.

 

[olicon]

Really? There's a pretty obvious one-up to your average space marine for just the badassliness factor. Chaos Space Marine.

Although if I was to choose one armor-toting man to rule them all, Gordon Freeman. But he doesn't really count does he?

But he COULD be the Emperor (lord of all Space Marines)

Praise the Emperor
Or
Praise the Freeman?

Why shouldn't Freeman be considered a space marine? Sure, he's not 12 feet tall, but he can leap a 30feet ledge and snipe someone from 3 football fields away. Plus, he's actually recruited by intergalactic mercenary agency (G-man), so he must have had a lot going for him. Did I mentioned he decimated the Combines virtually by himself?

The Master Chief wasn't that much of a wuss, but compared to 40K marines, he is one. But even then, the Master Chief is pretty strong compared to other recent space marines, like the new Red Faction guy, GoW Cogs, and that other game where you fly around and shoot people.
And I don't think it's done for the sake of game balance or anything either. The newer marines are just that way because they are the good guys. How many of you can honestly claim the 40K space monstrosities are truly the good guys?