Spanking your kids and parenting

[moeroris]

I think the American Psychiatric Association [http://www.apa.org/pi/cyf/res_punish.html] sums up the arguments against quite succinctly.

Psychologist Elizabeth Gershoff found links between corporal punishment and aggression, anti-social behavior and mental health problems. [source] [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_3_102/ai_89388984]

Researchers from universities in six different countries found children punished with physical discipline had more aggression and anxiety. [source] [http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/33612.php]

Researchers at McMaster's University found people who were spanked as children were "twice as likely to report alcohol abuse, illicit drug use or anti-social behaviour". [source] [http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/1999/10/04/spank991004.html]

I can cite more sources if needed, but they generally repeat the same basic problems: increased risk of anxiety and anxiety disorders, aggression, and substance abuse. And yes, I'm aware not everyone physically disciplined exhibits these problems. That's no excuse.

In the end though, beyond the risks listed above and even beyond moral issues, corporal punishment is simply attacking the symptom and not the problem. Temporarily stopping undesirable behavior through pain and/or fear does nothing to resolve the underlying cause of the behavior. It also does not give the child the necessary understanding of how to peacefully resolve problems as an adult, where frequently one cannot (or should not) use pain and fear to control the actions of others. It's a cop-out, and a child deserves better than that, especially from a parent.

 

[moeroris]

Can you deal with projectile pooping? Vomit in you mouth at 3 am in the morning? Screaming every night for weeks on end? No sleep for weeks on end? The list goes on and on. And every day children add to that list with glee. So arguing about parenting when you are not a parent yet is pointless at best. You will learn what you will REALLY do when you get to be a parent.

May I humbly point out that if someone cannot handle those things, they probably had no business creating a child in the first place. Don't blame the child for being a child unless you also plan to blame the sun for being hot and the ocean for being wet. Nobody has ever said being a parent was easy, and if they did and anyone actually believed them, they're a fool. Doubly a fool if they plan to blame the child for their poor choice and lack of self-control.

Note, this comment isn't intended to be directed at anyone in this thread, despite the quote at the top. My response is directed at the idea in general rather than anyone who holds it.

 

[crimsondynamics]

I have two boys - the oldest is 4.5 years old and the youngest is going onto his 13th month.

I have yet to lay my finger on them, and apart from the very normal sibling rivalry, the elder is a fantastic boy. Of course, we have disciplined him and continue doing so when he misbehaves, but we never resort to corporal punishment.

I consider psychological punishment equally, if not more effective, than physical punishment. What we do is first ask him nicely to stop undesired behavior. If he continues, we raise our tone. If he still continues, we grab him firmly, level our eyes to his, and tell him what he is doing is wrong and why. If he still continues, we will issue an ultimatum: mine is "if you don't stop doing that by the time I count to one (yes, one!) you will go and stand in the corner of your room; my wife will simply say he's going to the room if he doesn't stop.

If after all that he continues, then off to the room he goes. He will cry a minute or two, then come to his senses and apologize to us once we let him out of the room. He will even tell us why he is sorry and what he did that was wrong.

He's a fantastic boy. For the most part listens to us, and follows an amazing number of house rules for a child his age. I know many adults who don't have the discipline he has: he puts his dishes away after eating, he helps with the laundry, he tidies his own room, he does his own homework, and he closes the doors to all the rooms (so that the younger one never gets his fingers caught between the door and frame). He even reminds my wife and I when we occasionally forget.

I was spanked silly when I was a boy and although I know my father did it in my best interests, it still hurts me today that I was spanked sometimes in public or for actions I did not commit. I swore to myself that I would never follow in my father's footsteps.

Psychologically speaking, I also think we know enough today about physical abuse and violence to not have to resort to employing it ever. There are other tactics out there.

Finally, I remember a conversation I had once with a friend who was the eldest of three sons, brought up by a single mother. They were all mild mannered, courteous and polite. He told me that his mother wouldn't yell or hit them when they misbehaved - she just took away their dinners. That alone (taking away a primal need) was enough for them to know not to mess with mother.

 

[axia777]

Can you deal with projectile pooping? Vomit in you mouth at 3 am in the morning? Screaming every night for weeks on end? No sleep for weeks on end? The list goes on and on. And every day children add to that list with glee. So arguing about parenting when you are not a parent yet is pointless at best. You will learn what you will REALLY do when you get to be a parent.

May I humbly point out that if someone cannot handle those things, they probably had no business creating a child in the first place. Don't blame the child for being a child unless you also plan to blame the sun for being hot and the ocean for being wet. Nobody has ever said being a parent was easy, and if they did and anyone actually believed them, they're a fool. Doubly a fool if they plan to blame the child for their poor choice and lack of self-control.

Note, this comment isn't intended to be directed at anyone in this thread, despite the quote at the top. My response is directed at the idea in general rather than anyone who holds it.

Yes, I agree with the sentiment and ideas you put forth. But dumb people have kids all the time. It is a sad fact.

 

[jasoncyrus]

meh i got hit as a kid, and if i ever have the money ill have my own kid, u can be damned sure if i catch him lighting fires, hes getting spanked, if i catch him swearing at people, hes getting spanked, and u can bet ur bottom dollar someone will tell me how it's wrong and brutish and i will most definitely ask them why they would call my father a brute.

Probably because no one ever taught him a better way.

making sure that your child understands empathy is a rather important part of parenting;
actively causing the child to share the pain it inflicts upon others is not an entirely unreasonable approach.

This actually a really good point in my view.

Since most kids are emotional retards, due to the fact that society is molly cuddling them these days, physical pain seems to be the only way to show them the pain they are causing other people.

As for the above posts, from what I've read (not entirely sure if I've got the right end of the stick here), but were you suggesting holding a child down to stop them running into traffic...you realise at least one person passing by will think you are abusing the child by doing that? Or are about to sexually assault them? It's socially much safer to simply spank the child than pin them to the ground.

Honestly I dont see why we keep having these debates, each side will always think the other side are morons who need to get a clue. Lets just accept that there will always be idiots who think ***** slapping a child upside the head is good and idiots who think time outs are good.

...Personally I'm all for ***** slapping them. They are all gonna grow up to be like us anyway and look how messed up we turned out to be? We're debating morals...on a gaming site. Perhaps we simply need an injection of a life?

 

[Bocaj2000]

I should clarify what I said. I wasn't defending child beating. I wasn't saying that if a kid does something minor, he should be hit. What I meant to say is that if your child does something so bad that a spanking would be necessary for that situation, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Mcdouchedeluxplus]

my parents never hit me once but I have two older brothers so i usually got smacked around by them when we were little

 

[MONTGOMERYWOODRUFF69]

I have 6 kids, sometimes you want to spank, other times you want to tazer. Just a little short jolt mind you. That last bit is a joke by the way, so calm down.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It's not just hitting. Without proper logical boundaries you are essentially establishing a construct of might makes right.

You mean the way the world actually works?

Well, I'm not sure where you live but where I am at, we have this silly facade called civility that acts as a mediator between people and the harsh physical reality. Addittionally, parents are entrusted with teaching their children a rational way to navigate this civil space and not just to punch and hit people they disagree with. But who knows how things work where you are?

 

[asinann]

It's not just hitting. Without proper logical boundaries you are essentially establishing a construct of might makes right.

You mean the way the world actually works?

Well, I'm not sure where you live but where I am at, we have this silly facade called civility that acts as a mediator between people and the harsh physical reality. Addittionally, parents are entrusted with teaching their children a rational way to navigate this civil space and not just to punch and hit people they disagree with. But who knows how things work where you are?

You don't watch the news or read much history do you?

 

[jasoncyrus]

It's not just hitting. Without proper logical boundaries you are essentially establishing a construct of might makes right.

You mean the way the world actually works?

Well, I'm not sure where you live but where I am at, we have this silly facade called civility that acts as a mediator between people and the harsh physical reality. Addittionally, parents are entrusted with teaching their children a rational way to navigate this civil space and not just to punch and hit people they disagree with. But who knows how things work where you are?

You don't watch the news or read much history do you?

Indeed, the entire world has been built on might makes right. The church were great believers in this policy when they were in power.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It's not just hitting. Without proper logical boundaries you are essentially establishing a construct of might makes right.

You mean the way the world actually works?

Well, I'm not sure where you live but where I am at, we have this silly facade called civility that acts as a mediator between people and the harsh physical reality. Addittionally, parents are entrusted with teaching their children a rational way to navigate this civil space and not just to punch and hit people they disagree with. But who knows how things work where you are?

You don't watch the news or read much history do you?

I read a ton of news and history. Was that rhetorical question meant to be a zinger? I did refer to civility as a facade, so I'm obviously aware of the physical underpinnings of "civilized" societies. Like I said, I don't know where you live but going around smacking people in the face won't get you far where I'm at because you'll either go to jail or eventually get smacked back by somebody bigger.