Sports are worse than videogames

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Chunko

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shticks said:
Chunko said:
The exact same concept applies to sports, there's no rule saying you have to try. I can't get into it and as a result just sort of stand around and pretend to try to get the ball when it comes near me. 99% of the time I'm on the bench.
Where to you want me to go with this?....

You DO try because it in the spirit of the game.... it is entirely possible to start a video game and not touch the controller ..... you don't have to do anything. But if you don't then you're not really doing it.

And how can not doing anything be beneficial at all?
I just get bored easily so I don't try. I understand this isn't universally aplicable, but it's the same way with a lot of my friends. We're just doing it to get into college.


shticks said:
Chunko said:
The exact same concept applies to sports, there's no rule saying you have to try. I can't get into it and as a result just sort of stand around and pretend to try to get the ball when it comes near me. 99% of the time I'm on the bench.
Where to you want me to go with this?....

You DO try because it in the spirit of the game.... it is entirely possible to start a video game and not touch the controller ..... you don't have to do anything. But if you don't then you're not really doing it.

And how can not doing anything be beneficial at all?

Also I failed to quote you in my last post so i don't know if you managed to read it.



shticks said:
Unworking out < Remaining stationary (videogames) < Being active.

You're stacking the deck to give video games an advantage.
But for me 3:30 - 5:30 is time when I could be working out. So it is "Unworking out" for me.
 

spartan231490

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I think that you're last point only applies to some sports, notably baseball, golf, and bowling. but many sports, such as football, and soccer include physical conditionging training(running), almost as much as training the actual skills. and for wrestling, you have to obsessively control your fitness to maintain your weight class.

I agree with the first two to an extent, although i think, as with video games, that it has a lot more to do with the person involved, than thier activities.
 

Hardcore31

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To the OP: Even though the comparison is valid, i think what sets videogames apart from sports are all those little variables mentioned in previous posts. You have some good points, but they dont hold up that much cuz you are focusing in what they have in common, not what makes them differrent and what ultimately could disprove your theory. Now, you could make a point on how all those things can help you prove how absurd all those affirmations against videogames are, based on how they can be applicable to many other things (in this case sports) ; but that didnt seem the point in your post.
 

shticks

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Chunko said:
I just get bored easily so I don't try. I understand this isn't universally aplicable, but it's the same way with a lot of my friends. We're just doing it to get into college.
Maybe if you tried it would keep you in better shape than it currently does?
 

Bocaj2000

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Video games are easy targets because when people think "nerd" they think gamer.

A nerd isn't someone who plays DnD; a nerd is someone who obsesses over a hobby to the point of being socially awkward. This can be for reading, gaming, sports, music, etc.
 

ThatSexyGuy

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Chunko said:
I've been thinking a lot of the arguments against videogames seem equally as applicable to many other things in life. Specifically I noticed a lot of parallells to negative effects of sports. I'm not saying that sports are bad, but this is just something to think about:

[HEADING=1]Videogames Sports make people violent[/HEADING]

I really don't buy into this one. I feel like videogames help me get out violent feelings. All the studies have found is that they make us desensitized to violence. I'm not so sure that that is that much of a bad thing. I also read in "Grown up Digital" that violent crimes have been incredibly low in recent years, there may be a cause and effect relationship.

But lets think about sports for a moment. I don't think this applies to non-contact sports like cross country. But in sports like wrestling and football and lacrosse people are straight up beating the crap out of people. In my experience people also seem to get very aggressive when playing sports. I've seen fights break out over games. Additionally at my school the only people who ever seem to get in trouble or get into fights tend to be the athletic types, not the gamers.
Not exactly, While videogames help vent anger sports and other stuff help me to, instead of making me more aggressive.
Chunko said:
[HEADING=1]Videogames Sports make people obsessive[/HEADING]

So this one is pretty true for games. I only play on average 2 hours a day, but I talk about videogames a lot. I also talk about them a fair bit. I've seen a lot of my friends spend too much time on videogames.

But you can say the same things about sports. Jocks seem to only talk about the game the other day and professional games on T.V. It's all they ever talk about and to me it seems like they're way more obsessive. All of them get really involved into teams and seem to forget that it's just a game. At least most gamers recognize that gaming is an escape. Not to mention whenever there is a game it throws off your homework schedule. Sports are really time consuming and can hurt people academically.
Any activity will be addicting no matter what it is, you just noticed that sports can be too.


Chunko said:
[HEADING=1]Videogames Sports are bad for your health[/HEADING]

This argument has always seemed ridiculous to me. People jump to the conclusion that if you play videogames you automatically do it in excess and are overweight. There's no rule that says you have to stay inactive while you're playing videogames. I personally work out while gaming. I'm in far better shape outside of the sport season when I have more time to play videogames then when I'm inside it. This is because the type of workout you get from sports is negligible when compared to how much you can work out with videogames as a distraction. Additionally motion controls make up a large part of gaming, in a few month every console will have some form of motion sensing on it.

Sports are the other hand force you to stand around doing nothing, when you're not sitting down doing nothing. 90% of the time is spent watching a game, and practices are focused around becoming better at playing the sport as opposed to staying fit. Not to mention people get concussions and hurt themselves all the time. Sports are dangerous and can end in broken bones as well as brain damage.
Well judging from that it seems you don't have a very good soccer coach as practice should be centered around working out as much as developing skill and practicing plays or whatever it is in soccer. I play football and practice we do alot of workouts that also help develop skills and also running plays helps with skill and is also a workout. That is the risk of sports but there are alot of precautions that we take to stay safe so no one is seriously injured. If you stay on the bench most of the time ask the coach to play you.
 

inFAMOUSCowZ

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some good points and bad ones. Like sports make you un healthy. If you run track or cc like i do. You NEVER stand still your constantly running. But if you play foot ball ( american that is) you sit and watch plays alot
 

Capt. Crankypants

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O.P, I don't really think you could either. Anyway, here?s my rebuttal as a great enjoyer of sports. For your violent and health sections, It's not actually the players of sport themselves who get into the fights (Boxing notwithstanding), it's the dullard fans who get embroiled in passionate biffs, ala European football. Same goes for your health, actually playing sport is fantastic, and you're not likely to see any professional/semi professional athlete who is in poor physical condition. Even most amateur sportsmen such as myself are in great condition.

Obsession-wise, I disagree out of experience. I play football every week and train 2-3 times a week and during that, conversations usually cover any/all of the following topics: Girls, sport, study, cars, gaming, jobs.

I kinda see what you're trying to say, but I'm a great enjoyer of both Sport and Gaming, and I reckon you've picked a poor comparison. Maybe try and find parallels between something that isn't as beneficial and fun and widely regarded as 'positive' and 'good for you' as sport. Try, I dunno, fashion victims, or baby eaters? There's a great way to make Gaming shine through comparison :D

-L

P.S, By 'Football', I mean the 'Soccer' one.
 

Therumancer

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Hmmm, well the old nerds and their activities vs. sports and the activities of the mainstream is nearly as old as time. I agree with most of the points made, and it does come down to mainstream acceptance vs. fringe interests for the most part. The one I mostly disagree with is the part about health, while I disagree with video games being responsible for obesity, I do believe that people who actively participate in sports are going to be in better shape and healthier than those who don't, despite the injuries and such that can be endured. When it comes down to a simple interest in sports however, a guy sitting in front of a TV watching football and chugging beer and sugary beverages while chowing down on munchies is effectively no differant than anyone else looking at a display.

While somewhat unrelated due to my major point above, I will say that I think the obseity epidemic is one afflicting most advanced nations to one extent or another. America as the most advanced with the highest standard of living is of course hit hardest, and this follows on down the pipe where there is a direct correlation between the general access to technology and the fitness of people. Less need for manual labour and active travel means greater levels of obsesity and other related health problems. Simply put obsesity comes from people living sendimentary lifestyles, and driving cars everywhere and such. As nice as it sounds to say "find 30 minutes a day for exercise" that's not as easy as many people think, especially when you consider that one of the big problems with advanced societies is stress which can have a profound effect on people physically and their levels of fatigue. I think a lot of the perception of Americans as being fat and stupid has to do with us being drama queens and unlike most other nations that keep their problems relatively quiet and to themselves, America likes to yell it's issues from the rooftops in the most overblown and exagerrated way possible (since sadly we think we're that important) and it's not surprising that people think that since we're pretty much the ones screaming it on that level.

I'll also say that when it comes to kids and video games and such, I do not think that the problem with kids being less active as well has to do with them choosing to play video games or watch TV to the absolute exclusion of other things. I think a lot of the problem is that their options are limited. Unlike decades past situations like "Dennis The Menace" where kids roamed neighborhoods freely are gone. Not only are we concerned about predators who might be after the kids, but a lot of places don't want children wandering around unsupervised and getting into everything, adults basically having to be with their children even when it comes to parks, playgrounds, and other areas. If the adults are working or exhausted from working that means nobody is going to be taking Jr. to the playground or whatever with enough frequency for it to be a factor.

The truth be told video games are the latest in a long line of scapegoats for societal problems there are no easy solutions to. As Heinlan once put it "You can either have freedom or safety, never both", our reactive approach to law enforcement makes it so that actually stopping child predators and such is nearly impossible, typically action can only be taken once they have done something. To create an enviroment where pro-active approaches could be used would of course go against the grain of our central concepts of personal freedom. As odd as it sounds things like child molesttion, murder, etc... are deemed the lesser of evils compared to a goverment with the power to stop these things given all the other things it would allow it to do, and all the innocent people who would be oppressed in the crossfire. Another issue of course is child rearing, while "sexist" through most of human history it has been the job of women to stay at home and raise the children. You had mom around to take the kids to the playground or whatever else. Today you have a situation where both men and women work, and what's more the economy has changed where to get by most families require two incomes to make ends meet (meaning one parent, of either gender, can't practically not work in many cases), this leads to situations where not only are parents not around to take their children around to play, but in an increasing number of cases they aren't around at all. "Latchkey kids" are becoming increasingly common. Latchkey kids being kids, some surprisingly young, who are more or less left to fend for themselves due to both parents working. The term coming from the fact that the parents traditionally send them off to school, and when school is out the kids come home and lock themselves in their house where they are safe. Meals and such having been prepared and put away ahead of time. This technically counts as "child abuse" (via neglect) but it's a touchy issue because in many cases the parents have no real choice except to try and do this, if both parents have to work, and they can't afford daycare of some kind (which is VERY expensive).. well the results speak for themselves.

Blaming video games is much easier than addressing problems that are so heavily engrained into society. Nobody can magically fix the economy so families can be supported on one income (no matter which parent stays at home), nobody can address the safety issues without seriously hurting civil liberties, and so on. Basically in most cases when you look at the central issues we selected the least of potential evils in each case, nothing is without price. Evils are still evils however, and people don't like it, and given the whining there needs to be some boogeyman to blame for everything from problems with children, to obsesity (in general), to the perception that there is more violent crime (which is more an issue with easier communications, and news sensationalization, things were always this violent it's just the people of decades ago didn't hear about everything, and the news was less interested in exagerrating everything for ratings).
 

riotwraith

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Chunko said:
Sports are the other hand force you to stand around doing nothing, when you're not sitting down doing nothing.
I can't think of any way to say this that won't some sort of moderator action. So I'll just go for it, sorry if this comes across as insensitive.
What? Is that what it's like when you play sports? I'm sorry if you spend all your time on the bench or out in right field, but you have to realize that the rest of the team is actually doing stuff 99% of the time. Unless we're strictly talking about little league where even the worthless fat kids who don't even want to be there (me, once upon a time) have to play the same amount of time as the all-star who has been doing this since he was three and loves every second of it.
 

StarWolf22

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ThatSexyGuy said:
Chunko said:
Well judging from that it seems you don't have a very good soccer coach as practice should be centered around working out as much as developing skill and practicing plays or whatever it is in soccer. I play football and practice we do alot of workouts that also help develop skills and also running plays helps with skill and is also a workout. That is the risk of sports but there are alot of precautions that we take to stay safe so no one is seriously injured. If you stay on the bench most of the time ask the coach to play you.
I've spent a good half hour trying to come up with something and this fits what I wanted to say exactly.

TC, your coach should have you conditioning and working on skills, not just the latter. I assume that you are on the bench a lot during games, or you're a goalkeeper, if you can come up with a statistic like 90% of the game is you just watching. I have the complete opposite experience. I spend over 90% of the game on the field most of the time and rarely get time to just stand around and watch. When I play soccer, I'm constantly moving. I play video games in the off season and can see my body gradually becoming less fit. And yes, I have a Wii and play it quite frequently. However, no amount of motion controls can compete with actually going out and running around.
 

Chunko

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shticks said:
Chunko said:
I just get bored easily so I don't try. I understand this isn't universally aplicable, but it's the same way with a lot of my friends. We're just doing it to get into college.
Maybe if you tried it would keep you in better shape than it currently does?
I haven't tried in 18 years, I'm not going to start now. I'm sorry if I'm offending you, but sports just aren't my thing. I've tried to make myself try. But It's just too difficult.
 

Chunko

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Therumancer said:
Hmmm, well the old nerds and their activities vs. sports and the activities of the mainstream is nearly as old as time. I agree with most of the points made, and it does come down to mainstream acceptance vs. fringe interests for the most part. The one I mostly disagree with is the part about health, while I disagree with video games being responsible for obesity, I do believe that people who actively participate in sports are going to be in better shape and healthier than those who don't, despite the injuries and such that can be endured. When it comes down to a simple interest in sports however, a guy sitting in front of a TV watching football and chugging beer and sugary beverages while chowing down on munchies is effectively no differant than anyone else looking at a display.

While somewhat unrelated due to my major point above, I will say that I think the obseity epidemic is one afflicting most advanced nations to one extent or another. America as the most advanced with the highest standard of living is of course hit hardest, and this follows on down the pipe where there is a direct correlation between the general access to technology and the fitness of people. Less need for manual labour and active travel means greater levels of obsesity and other related health problems. Simply put obsesity comes from people living sendimentary lifestyles, and driving cars everywhere and such. As nice as it sounds to say "find 30 minutes a day for exercise" that's not as easy as many people think, especially when you consider that one of the big problems with advanced societies is stress which can have a profound effect on people physically and their levels of fatigue. I think a lot of the perception of Americans as being fat and stupid has to do with us being drama queens and unlike most other nations that keep their problems relatively quiet and to themselves, America likes to yell it's issues from the rooftops in the most overblown and exagerrated way possible (since sadly we think we're that important) and it's not surprising that people think that since we're pretty much the ones screaming it on that level.

I'll also say that when it comes to kids and video games and such, I do not think that the problem with kids being less active as well has to do with them choosing to play video games or watch TV to the absolute exclusion of other things. I think a lot of the problem is that their options are limited. Unlike decades past situations like "Dennis The Menace" where kids roamed neighborhoods freely are gone. Not only are we concerned about predators who might be after the kids, but a lot of places don't want children wandering around unsupervised and getting into everything, adults basically having to be with their children even when it comes to parks, playgrounds, and other areas. If the adults are working or exhausted from working that means nobody is going to be taking Jr. to the playground or whatever with enough frequency for it to be a factor.

The truth be told video games are the latest in a long line of scapegoats for societal problems there are no easy solutions to. As Heinlan once put it "You can either have freedom or safety, never both", our reactive approach to law enforcement makes it so that actually stopping child predators and such is nearly impossible, typically action can only be taken once they have done something. To create an enviroment where pro-active approaches could be used would of course go against the grain of our central concepts of personal freedom. As odd as it sounds things like child molesttion, murder, etc... are deemed the lesser of evils compared to a goverment with the power to stop these things given all the other things it would allow it to do, and all the innocent people who would be oppressed in the crossfire. Another issue of course is child rearing, while "sexist" through most of human history it has been the job of women to stay at home and raise the children. You had mom around to take the kids to the playground or whatever else. Today you have a situation where both men and women work, and what's more the economy has changed where to get by most families require two incomes to make ends meet (meaning one parent, of either gender, can't practically not work in many cases), this leads to situations where not only are parents not around to take their children around to play, but in an increasing number of cases they aren't around at all. "Latchkey kids" are becoming increasingly common. Latchkey kids being kids, some surprisingly young, who are more or less left to fend for themselves due to both parents working. The term coming from the fact that the parents traditionally send them off to school, and when school is out the kids come home and lock themselves in their house where they are safe. Meals and such having been prepared and put away ahead of time. This technically counts as "child abuse" (via neglect) but it's a touchy issue because in many cases the parents have no real choice except to try and do this, if both parents have to work, and they can't afford daycare of some kind (which is VERY expensive).. well the results speak for themselves.

Blaming video games is much easier than addressing problems that are so heavily engrained into society. Nobody can magically fix the economy so families can be supported on one income (no matter which parent stays at home), nobody can address the safety issues without seriously hurting civil liberties, and so on. Basically in most cases when you look at the central issues we selected the least of potential evils in each case, nothing is without price. Evils are still evils however, and people don't like it, and given the whining there needs to be some boogeyman to blame for everything from problems with children, to obsesity (in general), to the perception that there is more violent crime (which is more an issue with easier communications, and news sensationalization, things were always this violent it's just the people of decades ago didn't hear about everything, and the news was less interested in exagerrating everything for ratings).
That should be worth a "Wall of Text badge"
^Compliment; I enjoyed reading it even if a bit of it was irrelevant

Isn't Australia the fattest nation now though?
 

Hiroshi Mishima

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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I actually quite agree with the stuff discussed in the first post. Here's how I see it.. or at least here's how I can best describe my reasoning in the short amount of time I have to right this up:

In terms of violence, when you're playing a game by yourself.. who the hell are you going to hurt? I certainly don't go around braining people over video games. I admit that I have contemplated "beating the shit out of the designer" or whatever, of certain games when I come to the conclusion that someone was a complete idiot during development. But that's a little different. That's a clear case of cause and effect. In regards to sports... you're PROMOTING violence. Hockey, football, soccer.. all of these regularly involve players getting injured. If not the players, then the FANS who get into tremendous arguments and fist fights over games. Probably the reason that most multiplayer is done with people not in the same room. I'd wager that more than a few casualties might occur if they weren't.. then again, having two people play a game in the same room elicits different circumstances, emotions, and playing experiences than playing with strangers. I've literally seen family members at odds over sports, unlike video games.

Do video games make people obsessive? Yeah, just look at the Square fans, divided amongst themselves. Hell, any of the console fans, even. Those people are rather scary with their narrow-mindedness (I'm singling out Square fans, I used to be one myself). But a lot of our information and obsessions end up with lots of thought put into things. Listening to the way people will argue and come up with facts (real or imagined) can be quite overwhelming at times. On the other hand.. look at sports fans who quite often have nothing other than "state/country pride" fueling their obsessiveness with certain teams or sports and there's relatively little thought processes involved with watching sports as opposed to gaming which requires thought, strategy, and quick reflexes.

Of course you can turn it around and say similar things of the PLAYERS of sports. But then you get a whole new kind of obsession. Where some sports players put everything on the line for the "big game". A lot of gamers can just reload a save, or even start a new character.

As for being bad for your health? I don't see the problem people have with his argument against people who watch sports here. I mean if you sit around that much watching every single last game on the TV.. often drinking a lot of beer or consuming a lot of food... that's very different from how gamers handle themselves. When I game, I often don't eat nearly as much because I'm _too busy gaming_ to stuff my face. I can't handle eating a pizza and playing some game. That's tying up my hands. On the other hand, watching sports on TV means your hands are totally free to grab and consume whatever you want.

Likewise, sports themselves are often dangerous to play and involve lots of physical activity. Being active may be healthy, but having bones broken, muscles torn, ligaments damaged and all those other lovely sports injuries.. how the hell is that even remotely healthy? I think some of the people who are saying gaming is bad for your health either don't know what they're talking about, or are confused about the facts.

I've been gaming since I was a wee child. I'm not obese, I've never committed a crime, I've never attacked anyone. I read a lot, my mind is very active, and I enjoy taking walks or occasionally swimming. I've played or owned most systems, have beaten hundreds of games. I may not be the most physically fit person in the world, but I get by. If anything, I'd say my only real problems are the ones I didn't have any control over. My Asthma is under control, as is my Diabetes (I used to like sugary drinks, unrelated to gaming), and my Tourette Syndrome is the only real source of physical problems and only during high stress.
 

HereForFreeFood

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What if obsessive people are just obsessive, violent people are just violent and video games and sports are things to be violent/ obsessive over?
 

Tdc2182

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Chunko said:
Every point you make can be countered with the exact same thing.

I get more frustrated with videogames than sports.

I play videogames longer than sports when I get the chance. And I do my fair share of sports

And barely anyone gets addicted to sports, its never bad for your health.

I hate when people try to say that gaming is bad and not good for your health, but trying to say that sports are worse for your health is where I put my foot down.
 

Hangaround

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I believe it has been proven that games make you more aggressive then say, sitting in the couch and staring on the wall. However there are many factors that play in and makes sure it doesn't affect you in any way that would mean you take the increased violence with you when you turn off the machine and do other stuff. It mostly boils down to getting excited when the temper is up and you might get killed and have to start over again, or lose a streak when playing online. It's not aggressiveness that stays for long, it's just some kind of "in the moment" excitement, that is violent because you don't like having to start over or getting killed by someone you concider as being a nub.

It's very much the same with sports as you point out. People watch games and get very excitement, some have money on a team and they'll usually be extra excited and can turn really mad because people hate loosing money when they thought they would gain them instead.

We humans excel in being very engaged in things we love. If you're a sport fan or a gamer the difference on that level is minor, I like to think however that iq-points are major... (see, it was just a little joke there at the end, no reason to call the mods)
 

Mafoobula

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I'm really amazed nobody has mentioned this yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLBx9XOhsm8

The link above takes you to a part of "Penn & Teller's Bullshit", an HBO show that debunks social myths and so on; this episode regards just what this thread is talking about. I highly recommend seeing the whole episode - this is part 3 - but I want to specifically direct your attention to about 5:28 (five minutes and twenty-eight seconds) in. It speaks about the very real injuries and DEATHS that happen during HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL games.


Incidentally, OP, why didn't you mention Fantasy Football in the "sports makes you obsessive" section? The whole point of it, if I understand it correctly, is that a person analyzes the statistics of every single player in the NFL and tries to put together what they believe to be the best team in existence. Gamers might think or talk about dream match-ups - in some cases, such as the Super Smash Brothers games, a reality - but I don't think we really, truly go as in-depth as those who play Fantasy Football.
But you know what's worse than JUST playing Fantasy Football? You just KNOW there are people who see one person's fantasy team then go through the same shtick to come up with a team to counter the other person's team.

Furthermore, I've been to a couple baseball games. Some of these people think it's just spiffy to spend a bunch of money on $8 cups of beer and get drunk before the 5th inning. Have there been people who play games while drunk? It's a rare thing, indeed. Do they play games while drunk OFTEN? Even rarer! But alcohol and sports? They're not exactly hand-in-hand, but they're awfully chummy, is all I'm saying.
 
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Chunko said:
shticks said:
Just because you work out while you play videogames doesn't mean that sports are worse for your health that videogames.
But I can clearly see myself gaining weight when soccer is in season. It's pretty undeniable. How are sports not worse for me?
its called muscles?

regardless if you are getting bigger or not, your turning fat into muscle. believe me, i've done it for years, especially during soccer season.

during the summer id end up losing 5 pounds or so then during the fall and spring i'd put it back on plus an addition 5 for newer muscle developed, and from freshman year in highschool i went from 125 pounds to a whopping 160 as a senior, in which i only grew 2 inches height wise so my body really developed just from playing sports.

just because your gaining weight doesn't mean its bad


OT: those points can be used yes, but they can also be turned on themselves pretty decently so its hard to really use those in a solid arguement.