Square-Enix: Eidos Saved Us at E3

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I think Square needs something more in line with this.

Spoiler: There are bad words in this song but it is only a 35 sec video

They need a game changer. There has been nothing new in the last few FF games that has really added anything or made them fresh. Look at the stark contrasts between FFVII - IX. FFVII may share some overtones with FFVIII but wildly different combat and a more futuristic tone. Although I think FF needs to go back to its roots and build on that.

The FFXII setting was a step in the right direction but they need to abandon this Sphere Grid and Licence Board stuff unless they have a way of making it work. At least in FFX you could use it to improve Aeons and was kinda interesting. In XII it ruined the game for me(among other things).

 

[Liudeius]

Personally I think Square-Enix is suffering because their games aren't JRPG enough. Call it nostalgia, but not a single 360/PS3 JRPG I've played has even come close to comparing with some of my old favorites like Breath of Fire 3, Lunar, and Star Ocean (the new Star Ocean isn't turn based enough).

Since S-E isn't making games enjoyable for those who want actual JRPGs, yet is making them with too many JRPG cliche's to be appreciated by others, they are failing.

 

[Ghengis John]

On the final day of the event, a Square-Enix Holdings executive, Koji Taguchi tweeted his disappointment at the apparent failure of the publisher's Japanese studios to live up to its Eidos teams. "Because we merged with Eidos and had games like Tomb Raider, Deus and Hitman, as a company we were able to keep face," he wrote. "But the decline in Japanese titles was almost humiliating. This has been a week where I worried daily about how we can fix this."

The Japanese games industry's lag behind the Western industry has been a topic of concern among Square-Enix's leadership for quite some time now. In 2008, Squeenix president Yoichi Wada said that he felt the Japanese industry would "resurrect" the Japanese industry [http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=20573], but that didn't quite pan out as hoped.

It's interesting to hear this claim being trumpeted from more and more sources. When Kenji Inafune and a few others were saying it a couple years back I know a popular response from people on web boards was to write them off as delusional. Now you have corporate executives saying the same thing. And executives are not exactly known for being candid.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Ask not what can Eidos do for you, but what can you do for Eidos.

John Henry Eden signing off

OT: From the rumors I have heard from Pirates Human Revolution is almost better than the original.

I for one am buying it on launch day.

 

[Fapmaster5000]

It wouldn't solve any structural problems, but Squeenix does realize that if they released a high-def FFVII, the fanboys would sell their kidneys, right?

 

[Sylocat]

Personally I think Square-Enix is suffering because their games aren't JRPG enough. Call it nostalgia, but not a single 360/PS3 JRPG I've played has even come close to comparing with some of my old favorites like Breath of Fire 3, Lunar, and Star Ocean (the new Star Ocean isn't turn based enough).

Since S-E isn't making games enjoyable for those who want actual JRPGs, yet is making them with too many JRPG cliche's to be appreciated by others, they are failing.

Interesting... I wonder if they could make money by releasing a "classic-style" retro game, based on the NES or SNES lines... but make it a browser-based game for their website, and make money off ads.

You know what they used to greenlight back in the good ole' days? Twin brothers killing their twin sisters, babies coming down from the sky and mass killing party members, sisters killing themselves, and even took on heavy topics like incest. <--THAT was risky. Not Final Fantasy for sure, but it was still under Enix/Square.

What game are you talking about exactly? Cause it sounded like I missed one hella awesome game...

Seconded. I want to play this game, whatever it is.

 

[Callate]

It's oddly touching that Square-Enix is concerned with losing face, whereas nearly every western developer is more concerned about losing money.

If the Japanese games industry makes a comeback, it will probably be at least in part on the basis of this difference.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Not saying that the Eidos titles are actually going to be amazing (though they all do look very good), but I think they are an interesting and positive example that Square should take note of.

Eidos' titles aren't brand new IPs, but they also aren't point by point re-treads of the earlier games in their respective series. They are, however, either series we haven't seen for a while or are actual attempts to re-examine what made a series work in the first place.

Square doesn't need to come up with something totally new, but they do need to look at more of their back catalog than just Final Fantasy. They also need to actually take a step back for once and do something they seem unable to do objectively, examine what people used to really like about their games. Look at the recent successes they have had like the Dissidia series, or the continued love of the KH series, and see that things like strong well designed memorable characters can keep people coming back for years or even decades.

 

[digital warrior]

Personally I think Square-Enix is suffering because their games aren't JRPG enough. Call it nostalgia, but not a single 360/PS3 JRPG I've played has even come close to comparing with some of my old favorites like Breath of Fire 3, Lunar, and Star Ocean (the new Star Ocean isn't turn based enough).

Since S-E isn't making games enjoyable for those who want actual JRPGs, yet is making them with too many JRPG cliche's to be appreciated by others, they are failing.

My thoughts exactly, in my option Atlus has taken square enix place as the jrpg company to watch, its a shame that many of their games come out with very little fan-fair.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

You know what they used to greenlight back in the good ole' days? Twin brothers killing their twin sisters, babies coming down from the sky and mass killing party members, sisters killing themselves, and even took on heavy topics like incest. <--THAT was risky. Not Final Fantasy for sure, but it was still under Enix/Square.

What game are you talking about exactly? Cause it sounded like I missed one hella awesome game...

Drakengard (one). The game so dark and depressing, that you actually kept playing a game with repetitive gameplay *just* to see if you can get a happier ending instead of a depressing one. A game so dreary, that even Drakengard 2, a game that is *still* far more dark than FFXIII could hope to be, was way too watered down compared to the first game.

And let me tell you, Drakengard's five endings do *not* know what a happy ending means. The happiest ending you get is a tear-jerker in that game. And things just go down...down...downhill from there if you try and get the other endings.

If the story makers of Drakengard made FFXV, I'd preorder day 1. Day. One.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

Personally I think Square-Enix is suffering because their games aren't JRPG enough. Call it nostalgia, but not a single 360/PS3 JRPG I've played has even come close to comparing with some of my old favorites like Breath of Fire 3, Lunar, and Star Ocean (the new Star Ocean isn't turn based enough).

Since S-E isn't making games enjoyable for those who want actual JRPGs, yet is making them with too many JRPG cliche's to be appreciated by others, they are failing.

Interesting... I wonder if they could make money by releasing a "classic-style" retro game, based on the NES or SNES lines... but make it a browser-based game for their website, and make money off ads.

You know what they used to greenlight back in the good ole' days? Twin brothers killing their twin sisters, babies coming down from the sky and mass killing party members, sisters killing themselves, and even took on heavy topics like incest. <--THAT was risky. Not Final Fantasy for sure, but it was still under Enix/Square.

What game are you talking about exactly? Cause it sounded like I missed one hella awesome game...

Seconded. I want to play this game, whatever it is.

Lol, the first Drakengard. It had *all* of that and some more I left out. =p

 

[ProjectTrinity]

By the way. Mature&#8800;Risky. Just because it doesn't have pointless twin killing doesn't mean it's LocoRoco. (But I'm still interested now. What game are you referring to?)

Pointless? That twin being forced to kill his sister set the stones for the entire fourth ending! D= (It's the game Drakengard. Twisted game is twisted.)

But yeah, the point behind my post was that FFXIII didn't take any real risks - which ironically was a different form of a risk itself for such a big game.

FINAL FANTASY XIII SPOILERS:

For example, if the story wanted us to believe that the characters aren't stock characters, then why in the world is "the most relatable character" not capable of shooting the girl who he thought was responsible for his son's symbolic death? Especially since she knew this already? If he was really so emotionally distressed that his Persona-I mean summon came to "put him out of his misery or push him through his ordeal", why *didn't* he kill himself if he had the gun pointed towards his head? Both of these would have been a little more daring from Enix instead of choosing the more taken, safer, route.

You know what Drakengard would have done? [/I'm done! Really!] Because sick stuff happens in that game.

There were *ample* opportunities for Enix to twist the plot and wow me and many others, but they always, nearly visibly, took a safer route, even at the end of the game. And the end of the game happened to be the *best* time to pull out the stops. Like having an actual Fang battle with her winning at the end. Such an easy step, dodged.

SPOILERS DONE.

*Sighs* I think my biggest problem was that I believe Enix saw the ample opportunities and went "...Not safe enough" every time and just teased at them.

 

[John Funk]

I got a chance to test the leaked Deus Ex, and it's far better than most games nowadays, not better than the original Deus Ex IMO, but still more ambitious than play-safe games nowadays.

 

[Defense]

By the way. Mature&#8800;Risky. Just because it doesn't have pointless twin killing doesn't mean it's LocoRoco. (But I'm still interested now. What game are you referring to?)

Pointless? That twin being forced to kill his sister set the stones for the entire fourth ending! D= (It's the game Drakengard. Twisted game is twisted.)

I find it interesting that you listed Drakengard as a game that was risky under Square Enix, but you forget about NieR. I'd let it slide if Drakengard was developed by Square Enix, but it was developed by Cavia(as you know).

But yeah, the point behind my post was that FFXIII didn't take any real risks - which ironically was a different form of a risk itself for such a big game.

FINAL FANTASY XIII SPOILERS:

For example, if the story wanted us to believe that the characters aren't stock characters, then why in the world is "the most relatable character" not capable of shooting the girl who he thought was responsible for his son's symbolic death? Especially since she knew this already? If he was really so emotionally distressed that his Persona-I mean summon came to "put him out of his misery or push him through his ordeal", why *didn't* he kill himself if he had the gun pointed towards his head? Both of these would have been a little more daring from Enix instead of choosing the more taken, safer, route.

He wasn't really that good of a character, relatable as he was. But I suppose he didn't kill her just because she was a kid and he's a coward. I understand what you mean though; it was just a poor attempt at trying to squeeze some emotion out of the audience. But Final Fantasy isn't really meant to be grimdark. Mature themes are used(poverty, mass murder, and occasional cross dressing), but not "OMG PLAGUE BABIES LIVING IN POOL OF FILTH ARE ACTUALLY ABORTED BABIES" kinds of themes.

 

[Archangel768]

I think they need to realise their fans have grown up and are now adults that won't take this 'Noel' garbage seriously. I think they had a really good idea going with Final Fantasy XII. Unfortunately, they chose Vaan as the main character. If only they made a Final Fantasy with someone like Basch or Balthier as the main character and addressed the linearity issues (gameplay linearity that is, not the linear stories. Although making a story that has choices could work well, I would NOT want it to overly intrude on their cinematics and turn it into a mass effect like game.)

I believe if they made the pacing of the story in Final Fantasy XII a lot better (as in didn't make certain places drag on for so long like they did without any kind of conversation between the characters etc.) and had kept Basch as the main character (I read that he was originally the main character somewhere) It would have been much more popular. They also could have added in some more mini games and side quests that weren't just hunt this monster (more stuff like the cactuars taking the village hostage would be fun)

 

[Omnific One]

Problem with Squeenix is that they never try anything new. The best Squeenix game to come out in recent years has to be The World Ends With You, which redefined the way we thought about JRPGs. Excellent story, soundtrack, gameplay, art style, although a bit repetitive, it stood out from its peers.

Yet although the critics loved it, Squeenix's marketing failed and its now a bargain bin gem.

If Squeenix wants to survive in the market it needs to branch out, if its JRPGs weren't so linear, confined and repetitive they would appeal to a lot more western gamers.

I say 'its' because this is a Squeenix phenomenon, Atlus are much different.They lack the stranglehold on the Western market in which Squeenix is well established but their JRPGs are much different to Squeenix. However they do have a niche appeal, if you don't like difficult games with anime art styles you won't find what you're looking for. However they are exploring new boundaries and with the success of SMT Devil Survivor will be looking to get their foot in the door.

'Course this isn't just a JRPG problem, many companies *cough*Activision*cough* churn out repetitive titles in their comfort zone but at least they have DLC and multiplayer for replay value, the linearity of JRPGs is choking them to death.

Edit: I should clarify with TWEWY, watch the ZP episode if you want a taste, also having a protaganist who just doesn't give a shit is a bonus. There's plenty to talk about but I'm not going to review it using a Nokia.

Squeenix really needs to move away from classic JRPGs, which are getting really outdated. Nothing has changed. Try to appeal to a Western market; go after the Bethesda/Bioware/CDProjekt fanbase. Seriously, move forward, not sideways.

You guys honestly think that they're in trouble because they don't do anything new? Final Fantasy XIII was a game that did a lot of things differently, and it probably got the most complaints out of any recent Final Fantasy. I don't think anyone would mind if Square Enix constantly pushed out Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy Tactics like games every few years.

Not that I particularly mind though, because I still like most of Square Enix's games.

The Japanese industry just got lazy and went stale.

3/10 I replied and thought you were serious for a second.

No, FF XIII did nothing really new, it was just rehashing with a slight modern spin. They need to truly modernize, not just superficially so. They are going to have to alienate the core to gain a larger audience. With FFXIII, they merely alienated the core by making small edits. They didn't go far enough to capitalize on the rise of games in the global market.

 

[inFAMOUSCowZ]

I'm proud that Square Enix noticed that they arent what they used to be. And that Edios is helping them out a lot. But SE please get back on track and please let FF13-2 be great. FF13 was decent and it was great at the open world part but that took too long and I lost will to play. But at least I beat the game.

 

[Defense]

No, FF XIII did nothing really new, it was just rehashing with a slight modern spin. They need to truly modernize, not just superficially so. They are going to have to alienate the core to gain a larger audience. With FFXIII, they merely alienated the core by making small edits. They didn't go far enough to capitalize on the rise of games in the global market.

>No towns
>Mind numbing linearity
>Heals fully after battle
>Paradigm shift, Stagger, Sentinel, Leader death, no MP, ra/ga attacks have AoE and cost more bars to cast
>Gold has no purpose in the game
>Stats are only HP, magic, and attack, defense and others are determined by your accessories
>Very little NPCs, and you don't actually talk to them
>Datalogs replace text scenes
>Weapon upgrade system
>Debuffs worked on almost every boss, and de/buffs were a large part of beating enemies
>Item drop is based on a rating system, efficiency is the key to battle

Final Fantasy XIII did a lot of things differently. It's just everyone is fighting over whether it was a good move overall or not.