star wars episode II an unanswered question

[Soviet Heavy]

The original Clone Army was a 3 million trooper order. Over three years, that contract with Kamino ran out. While these 3 million were the ultimate soldiers in the galaxy, there simply were not enough of them to keep up with demand. So the Republic contracted several other cloning firms, such as the Arkanian geneticists, and the Spaarti Cloning (Spaarti Clones could be vat grown and flash trained in a year, compared to ten for kamino).

The big problem with this, however, was that the Clones were only flash trained (think hypnotherapy), without the grueling training regimen at Kamino facilities. Arkanian Clones were created from Clone stock, rather than pure Jango DNA, which lead to degradation of quality over time and multiple cloning of clones.

The big thing though, was that these troops were not meant to be the perfect soldier, like the originals. They were meant to be an occupying force, winning through attrition and numbers, and being able to maintain an entire Galactic Empire.

The vast majority of Clone Trooper forces were not deployed until the Battle of Coruscant, where the currently overwhelmed 3 Million Clones and volunteer force suddenly got an influx of billions. These were housed secretly on Coruscant's moon, Centax II. With Coruscant breaking the back of the CIS armed forces, the Centax clones swarmed out through the galaxy, occupying it and paving the way for an Imperial takeover.

Thus, you get millions of crappy clones meant for security forces and Attrition wars, compared to the mobile strike force that was the Grand Army of the Republic.

 

[HardkorSB]

Why are these clone armies fucking badass but storm troopers are possibly the most terrible goons ever. Surely as episodes 4-6 are set further in the future but why are the armies getting worse. I know the clones are all clones of django fett and one special pure clone was boba fett (hence why they were so good). But it kinda makes sense to stick with these rather than those aweful stormtroopers

When episode 4 was made, the "clone wars" was just a throwaway line to establish Obi Wan as a former solider.
Lucas, while writing the prequels, must have said:
"Hmm, in episode 4, Luke talks about some clone wars, that sounds cool. Why don't I put that into the movies? The Stormtroopers all look the same, they'll be the clones".
After that became canon, people went out of their way to preserve some shreds of continuity and tried to bridge the gaps between 3 and 4 in books, comics and games.

 

[faefrost]

I know a lot of you here are probably uber starwars geeks and all fairness to you the films are pretty damn good but i was watching episode II which was on TV yesterday and i got to thinking.

Why are these clone armies fucking badass but storm troopers are possibly the most terrible goons ever. Surely as episodes 4-6 are set further in the future but why are the armies getting worse. I know the clones are all clones of django fett and one special pure clone was boba fett (hence why they were so good). But it kinda makes sense to stick with these rather than those aweful stormtroopers

Also why didnt someone kill anakin earlier on? In episode 1 he was an irritating little brat but he kinda got away with it because he was only a little kid. But in episode 2 he is unbearably abnoxious and just a general douchebasket

This article from The Escapist Awhile back explains it better than most of us ever could.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/criticalintel/10201-Hoth-The-Failure-of-Imperial-Military-Doctrine

 

[Mocmocman]

If the Storm Troopers shoot a protagonist, the protagonist dies. If that happens, the movie isn't as good.
(My answer was already posted by other people)

 

[Winnosh]

Storm Troopers are good. Really good. Does no one notice that every time. Every Damn time there is storm trooper combat that they slaughter the opposition unless there is some suprise turn around such as the Ewoks distracting them on endor so that the Rebels could turn the fight around again.
Seriously people actually watch the movie again. The Ewoks impact on that fight was negligable.

Also they were human Storm Troopers being clones was a complete retcon because Lucas wanted not just faceless enemies but to turn the troopers into inhuman enemies as well. Part of that being that people liked the empire and the Stormtroopers.

Original Trilogy People vs People with hard decisions and many points of view
Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

 

[Random Argument Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvoyVfsN51Y

I took Battlefront's 2 explanation. It makes sense.. God I missed that game.

 

[Winnosh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvoyVfsN51Y

I took Battlefront's 2 explanation. It makes sense.. God I missed that game.

I know about that but yeay another dumb retcon in a series of dumb retcons.

 

[saintdane05]

Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

Go ahead and read the Republic Commando novels. The slave army that the Republic raises is not faceless.

 

[Winnosh]

Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

Go ahead and read the Republic Commando novels. The slave army that the Republic raises is not faceless.

The resoning behind making Clone and Droids for the heroes to combat was so that Lucas could have things the characters kill without unfortunate implications.

The writers later on had to fight tooth and nail to give them personality and make people care about them. I DO care about them but it's because of work done on things like Clone Wars the animated series and Republic trooper. But it doesn't remove the fact that introducing clones and changing so much backstory hurts the Starwars Universe.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

According to EU lore the Kamino Cloning facility was destroyed at some point. While some of the tech was sequestered away on a far-off planet called Wayland and guarded, they couldn't afford to keep up the production required so they started drafting regular humans who aren't nearly as good, and the clones always had limited lifespans. Why the Emperor didn't continue to use those 20,000 cloning cylinders that were saved is never stated. 20,000 new troops every 2 years isn't a game-breaker when you're up against an entire galaxy, but it would certainly help.

Also the Imperial bureaucracy eventually commissioned redesigned helmets that are much harder to see out of, which they complain about many times in the games and novels (and Luke complains about in the movies).

The more meta reason being offered is that Stormtroopers are shown to be quite effective against anyone who isn't the heroes chosen to restore balance to the Force. They did manage to mow down those rebel soldiers pretty well at the start of Episode 4.

 

[saintdane05]

Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

Go ahead and read the Republic Commando novels. The slave army that the Republic raises is not faceless.

The resoning behind making Clone and Droids for the heroes to combat was so that Lucas could have things the characters kill without unfortunate implications.

The writers later on had to fight tooth and nail to give them personality and make people care about them. I DO care about them but it's because of work done on things like Clone Wars the animated series and Republic trooper. But it doesn't remove the fact that introducing clones and changing so much backstory hurts the Starwars Universe.

<youtube=_uKjvdUtLkI>
The Clone Wars were already there. Heck, there, they set up The Old Republic, and even the Anakin/Vader.

 

[Winnosh]

Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

Go ahead and read the Republic Commando novels. The slave army that the Republic raises is not faceless.

The resoning behind making Clone and Droids for the heroes to combat was so that Lucas could have things the characters kill without unfortunate implications.

The writers later on had to fight tooth and nail to give them personality and make people care about them. I DO care about them but it's because of work done on things like Clone Wars the animated series and Republic trooper. But it doesn't remove the fact that introducing clones and changing so much backstory hurts the Starwars Universe.

<youtube=_uKjvdUtLkI>
The Clone Wars were already there. Heck, there, they set up The Old Republic, and even the Anakin/Vader.

Yes Clone wars. But the way it was always described led it to be believed that it was the Republic fighting AGAINST clones Not that they used clones against Droids. And this was because the whole thing wasn't even thought up until episode 2. It's a Retcon.

 

[The Enquirer]

As I recall most clones left the Empire at some point to join other factions (rebel alliance) because they weren't just clones. They developed their own personality. Storm troopers are not clones, they are mostly human volunteers or at times brainwashed civilians. Unless they are fighting a main character storm troopers are actually very capable soldiers. When compared to a clone trooper they pale in comparison though.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

The clones were never cool. In the original trilogy they chatted and seemed like men in armour to me. Like the armies we have today. They ruined it in the prequels trilogy where they became "clones" and were treated as throwaway troops. Didnt matter if they lived or died just like the droid army.

In the original trilogy, they were never called clones. I just think they fucked up every thing with the prequels.

Go watch the reviews on www.redlettermedia.com

 

[SpAc3man]

No idea if it is canon or not but in Battlefront 2 it is mentioned that the clones were slowly phased out and other soldiers were used. The only group of stormtroopers that remained purely clones was Vader's 501st legion.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Prequel Trilogy Faceless soldiers vs Faceless soldiers.

Go ahead and read the Republic Commando novels. The slave army that the Republic raises is not faceless.

The resoning behind making Clone and Droids for the heroes to combat was so that Lucas could have things the characters kill without unfortunate implications.

The writers later on had to fight tooth and nail to give them personality and make people care about them. I DO care about them but it's because of work done on things like Clone Wars the animated series and Republic trooper. But it doesn't remove the fact that introducing clones and changing so much backstory hurts the Starwars Universe.

<youtube=_uKjvdUtLkI>
The Clone Wars were already there. Heck, there, they set up The Old Republic, and even the Anakin/Vader.

Yes, the clone wars happened. Looking at the movie clip, they never said the storm troopers were clones. Or that the enemy used clone troops. Just that he fought in a clone war with lukes father.

 

[Woodsey]

Pretty sure the Stormtroopers are meant to be elite in the original film, they're just victim to genre tropes.

The clones were never cool. In the original trilogy they chatted and seemed like men in armour to me. Like the armies we have today. They ruined it in the prequels trilogy where they became "clones" and were treated as throwaway troops. Didnt matter if they lived or died just like the droid army.

In the original trilogy, they were never called clones. I just think they fucked up every thing with the prequels.

Go watch the reviews on www.redlettermedia.com

They have more personality in the time they get in Episode 3 than any of the Stormtroopers.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Pretty sure the Stormtroopers are meant to be elite in the original film, they're just victim to genre tropes.

The clones were never cool. In the original trilogy they chatted and seemed like men in armour to me. Like the armies we have today. They ruined it in the prequels trilogy where they became "clones" and were treated as throwaway troops. Didnt matter if they lived or died just like the droid army.

In the original trilogy, they were never called clones. I just think they fucked up every thing with the prequels.

Go watch the reviews on www.redlettermedia.com

They have more personality in the time they get in Episode 3 than any of the Stormtroopers.

Maybe. But once you know they are all clones of one guy. Even in the originals, its hard to see the stormtroopers the same way. It just makes them nobodies. In the originals i saw them as normal people....not clones.

 

[Woodsey]

Pretty sure the Stormtroopers are meant to be elite in the original film, they're just victim to genre tropes.

The clones were never cool. In the original trilogy they chatted and seemed like men in armour to me. Like the armies we have today. They ruined it in the prequels trilogy where they became "clones" and were treated as throwaway troops. Didnt matter if they lived or died just like the droid army.

In the original trilogy, they were never called clones. I just think they fucked up every thing with the prequels.

Go watch the reviews on www.redlettermedia.com

They have more personality in the time they get in Episode 3 than any of the Stormtroopers.

Maybe. But once you know they are all clones of one guy. Even in the originals, its hard to see the stormtroopers the same way. It just makes them nobodies. In the originals i saw them as normal people....not clones.

I think there's something somewhere which says that not all of the Stormtroopers are clones by the original trilogy. You see the guys in the AT-ATs and stuff who aren't clones.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Pretty sure the Stormtroopers are meant to be elite in the original film, they're just victim to genre tropes.

The clones were never cool. In the original trilogy they chatted and seemed like men in armour to me. Like the armies we have today. They ruined it in the prequels trilogy where they became "clones" and were treated as throwaway troops. Didnt matter if they lived or died just like the droid army.

In the original trilogy, they were never called clones. I just think they fucked up every thing with the prequels.

Go watch the reviews on www.redlettermedia.com

They have more personality in the time they get in Episode 3 than any of the Stormtroopers.

Maybe. But once you know they are all clones of one guy. Even in the originals, its hard to see the stormtroopers the same way. It just makes them nobodies. In the originals i saw them as normal people....not clones.

I think there's something somewhere which says that not all of the Stormtroopers are clones by the original trilogy. You see the guys in the AT-ATs and stuff who aren't clones.

I agree, in the originals you had normal humans in charge in all the trilogy. In the at-ats and in command in the death star. Thats what makes the whole clone thing in the prequels horrible. The storm troopers where guys and thus had impact when they died. They were people that may have had families, it was their job. But now they are clones, who cares about them anymore. They are just worthless cannon fodder.