Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Filled discussion thread (no spoiler tags, you've been warned)

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Grampy_bone

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Pluvia said:
Grampy_bone said:
As an Older Mentor Character, Han's only role in this movie was to die tragically in order to motivate the heroes. He was a dead man walking from the moment he appeared in the trailer. Yes, that also means Luke's number will be up in 8 or 9.

This is the "killing your Gods" phase of the Campbell Hero Story. The old generation has to die off after passing the torch (or sword) on to the new heroes. Besides, Han had a good death, all actors want a dramatic death scene like that.
I really liked Han's death scene, I think that entire scene was nigh-perfect in storytelling.

I loved how he just wasn't afraid of his son at all and it was clear he really loved him. And you could see the pain Kylo was feeling, and feel the indecision he was going through.

Of all the ways a character has tragically died, that was definitely one of the best.
Agreed, it was very well done. Kylo's dialogue there is perfect, because you can see how they want you to think he's fighting against the dark side but he's actually fighting against the light. Killing Han is symbolic for killing whatever good was left in him. Han is trying to make up for running away and not being a good dad. He dies knowing he tried and his sacrifice is not in vain. Couldn't have been any better really.
 

The Enquirer

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Overall, I liked it a lot though it wasn't without things that I would have changed. For the longer version of that view below.
Johnny Novgorod said:
1) Was that supposed to be Coruscant?
2) I'm more than a bit spiteful of Han's death. The only reason I tolerate it is because I suspect this is Harrison finally getting his revenge on Lucas.
3) Oscar Isaac is amazing and Episode VIII could only benefit from focusing exclusively on his character.
4) That ending... Matrix Reloaded, anybody?
5) C-3PO's random red arm was hilarious. What a half-assed jab at selling new toys.
6) Did anybody get where the bad guys came from, at all? Why are we back to Emperor/Vader/Moff & Death Star? Who are these people? At no point is the Rebellion's victory in Return of the Jedi acknowledged. What happened that everything sucks again?
1. My understanding is that it wasn't actually Coruscant as that's not the New Republic's capital.
2. Han is my favorite character so obviously I didn't want him to die. Speaking as a writer though, I'm fine with important characters dying as long as their death has meaning or lives up to the character. I felt his was lacking slightly.
3. I wish he was in more scenes.
4. It felt like a lot of build up to a lot of nothing.
5. Unless they're going to elaborate on it at any point, it was sort of a pointless addition.
6. From what I get is they're a radicalized splinter group of the Empire, but honestly, they really should have explained that better.

As per things I would have changed to better improve the movie without really replacing any assets-

From the opening there needs to be a bit more exposition on who the New Order is and who the Republic and Resistance is. That can be elaborated on throughout but something needs to happen during the opening crawl. Also it needs to be better established that Kylo Ren is still fairly new at this whole Sith/Jedi thing to explain some of his weaknesses while still giving the character a lot of room to grow and develop.

When Poe is captured he is taken back to that planet destroying mega-weapon. Currently that thing just sprung out of nowhere on us. Now when Finn helps Poe escape, obviously they're further from Jakku and need to get back to it, so they successfully steal a shuttle and still fight their way out. Poe is now part of the main ensemble now. So he gets some additional character development.

When Han and company land on that bar and the New Order attacks, I would have made Finn much more competent with the lightsaber for reasons I'll get into later and have the fight between him and the Stormtrooper be much more evenly matched, Han finishing it off mid fight though (because you're not really going to just stand around now are you?). Rey will be captured and as Kylo is carrying him off to the ship Han then shouts "Ben!", Kylo turns around briefly before entering the ship and away they go. From there you can elaborate on Kylo being his son. I felt there wasn't much drama around that.

Back at the Resistance base everything goes on as it had in the movie, except they do find Luke's location off of bb-8. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't look at that huge chunk of map and simply match it up with some data they had. However at this point the Republic capital is destroyed and Luke has to wait.

The mission goes on very much as it had been. Rey doesn't have quite the awakening she does. It can be more elaborated on, and she only mind controls the storm trooper enough to let loose a couple of the straps holding her down, using her freedom to kill the trooper and free herself the rest of the way. Han dies however not after getting in a final word that will have some form of lasting impact because as it's been greatly shown, Han will always try his best to have that last word.

Skipping forward now, Finn, now having some experience with a lightsaber and shown to be fairly capable with it, is cut down very swiftly by a very angered Kylo, establishing him, even when injured, as extremely menacing. Rey picks up the saber and begins to fight, clearly outmatched. Chewbacca shows up and the two manage a decent fight however need to pull back when the planet begins to rupture and rescue Finn, bringing him onto the Falcon, which Poe is now piloting, because he's actually part of the main ensemble now remember?

The world slowly breaks apart more and more however isn't destroyed. It can still serve as a military powerhouse although the superweapon is completely useless. Kylo for the first time gets in touch with Supreme Leader Snoak, informs him of what happened and Snoak tells him he will help him finish his training.

The movie progresses much the same until the ending wherein Rey finds Luke (without offering the lightsaber), he turns around, clearly seeing his own green lightsaber on his waist (not Anakin's), says "hello there" just as Old Ben did to him when they first met, and the credits roll.
 

ckam

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Borrows heavily from IV, Han's death was predictable ever since the announcement of VII, I really like how they Yoda'd Luke, and Kylo Ren is a sexy guy behind the mask?!
 

Crazy Zaul

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So my really pedantic issue: Why does Finn wear jeans? Star Wars clothes have always been basic ass vaguely spacey looking things and there were fancy dresses in the prequels but jeans are like very quintessentially Earth clothes. Its a bit weird for them to exist in the Star Wars galaxy. I don't really care but hundreds of people have already said all my other points.
 

Extra-Ordinary

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I thought it was pretty good.
It's kinda weird, sometimes I don't want to say it feels like Star Wars completely but I think that's just the new coat of paint for today's age.

I really like the lightsaber battles, I really like how they're, like, heavy, again, you know?
And the dogfights, MAN, the dogfights, those were awesome.

And come on guys, it borrows a good chunk from IV but it doesn't re-hash the entire thing like some people are saying it does. It borrows a lot, I will admit, but it's got enough to be it's own thing.

Wish Captain Phasma got more to do though; her entire on screen presence was "Yo, Finn, fix your blaster." *gets tackled, lowers shields*.

And yo, the Stormtrooper with the Saber-Baton.

 

Reiper

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fluxy100 said:
3) Where did Snoak come from? Yes Palpatine wholly ignored the Rule of two but that was all EU so it's not canon. Who trained this new sith? (I assume this will be explained in the other movies)
Personally, I guessed it fairly quickly, and I looked it up and I believe I am right. I am tempted not to spoiler tag it given the name of this thread and be a smartass, but I will resist
He is
Darth Plagueis: AKA Palpatine's former master who he "killed"


Hawki said:
I really can't summon the energy to discuss this film at length, but based on the other points in this thread:

-Coruscant: Hah hah...remember how Coruscant featured in the prequels? Remember how we (Disney) are trying to make you forget the prequels ever happened? Well now Coruscant's gone, mirroring Alderaan. Never mind that the Republic presumably has other worlds, and now has every intention to engage the First Order in open war, and hah hah...hah hah...
Nah, that wasn't corusscant, the target was in the Hosnian system.


Overall, I was fairly disappointed with the movie for a variety of reasons. I was no fan of the prequels, but I can honestly say that I enjoyed episodes 2 and 3 more.
 

Treeinthewoods

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Lol, everyone I know and myself loved this movie, the general reviews are about how amazing it is. I saw this thread and I just knew that if anyone would hate it it would be the Escapist where liking anything is a sign if weakness.
 

maninahat

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I did dislike how Deathstar 3 was handled. It wasn't the focus of the movie, and so it shouldn't have been, but it also shouldn't have been this planet sized doomesday machine that could get wiped out in half an hour's screen time. It also didn't make sense in that the name "the remnant" implies we are dealing with a fragment of the former power of the Empire. The first impression I had was that they now have limited resources and are fighting on their back foot - it doesn't make sense then that they can suddenly wheel out this super weapon that is ten times the size of that last battle station they made at the height of their power.

The bad guys needed to present a big threat to raise the stakes, but it should have just been something like that new/upgraded star destroyer, bombarding Corosant; something dangerous but not absurdly expensive, and also something that could be plausibly destroyed in such a short amount of time after it being introduced (but still be threatening enough to need destroying).

There was a couple of over-wrought scenes as well. The whole, holding your hand out in someone's face takes an unusual amount of screen time and looks quite silly. "Snoak" sounds like a stupid name for an evil supreme leader, they should have got something more old Testament sounding. Also Ren eats half an apple with some brocolli in it. Didn't that look odd?

Otherwise it was a good film.
 

The Enquirer

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Johnny Novgorod said:
The Enquirer said:
"hello there"
Dear god I didn't think about that. That would've instantly made the movie a 10/10. I'm not even kidding.
Yea, for me and the people I went with, it felt like a lot of build up for very little pay off. It was still cool, but it needed something more, as did a few scenes.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Whatislove said:
Now in episode 7, Kylo Ren is easily overpowering Rey, and for good reason, Kylo was trained by luke skywalker, the knights of ren, AND what you could only assume is a very powerful Sith in Snoke, he has had years of training and experience. Then Rey, holding a lightsaber for the very first time, closes her eyes and is suddenly the most powerful lightsaber duelist in the galaxy because 'the force did it'.
And people keep forgetting that Kylo Ren was shot by the Star Wars equivalent of a .50 cal just moments before the duel. He was bleeding out.
 

Zontar

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You know I just realized that Force Awakens is the first Star Wars movie whose title number and release order number is the same one, and given Rogue One and the two untitled Han and Fett solo movies, that seems like it won't even happen again.
 

EHKOS

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You're right, nearing the end I almost said out loud "Wait, where the FUCK are the Republic right now?!"
It felt a bit goofy, the comedic relief bits went a bit too far. Also, I don't remember the Force ability to read minds ever being a thing. If it was around, then alright, I forgot about it, if not, it seems a bit OP and I'm on the fence about it.
SOMEONE FOUND A LIGHTSABER ON THE SURFACE OF BESPIN. Let's just get that out of the way.

Apparently Space Ireland is a thing.
The hentai monsters on the freighter didn't just up and kill Finn like EVERY OTHER PERSON.
Han just happens to be around at the same time the Falcon wakes up.
R2-D2 is a **** and keeps most of the map hidden, we probably could have narrowed it down.
C-3PO played MGS:V and decided to cosplay.
BB-8 should have been a minor character.
I'm glad Abrams had the balls to off Han Solo, even if I did see the method coming a mile away. Dat JK LOL.
Oh no, it's a bigger death star.
Who the fuck is the giant hologram and how did he get to Ben while he was training with Luke and pffft, more younglings. Delicious, delicious younglings.
I'm glad Abrams made it so Luke fucked up, because he would, because he wasn't really a great jedi, because he never had the proper training, so something should have gone wrong when he tried it.

But overall it just felt pretty badly written. I'll stick to the EU. Just because it looks pretty doesn't mean it was good. I JUST got back from it, so I probably forgot some things. At least they used the right sounds for the X-Wing lasers.

Oh and I think she was just showing Luke that she had the lightsaber, so that it would mean something and he wouldn't kill her instantly or something.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Well, I finally saw it, and thus I am spoiler free. Thought I'd come here and check out the commentary. Needn't have bothered.

There are flaws in the film, most definitely, that I'd love to discuss them, but there are people in here claiming the film was inferior to the prequels. The fucking prequels. I knew we had prequel defenders in these woods, but I thought they were of the "They're a guilty pleasure!" variety, not the "I clearly know absolutely nothing about film" variety.

Adam Jensen said:
And people keep forgetting that Kylo Ren was shot by the Star Wars equivalent of a .50 cal just moments before the duel. He was bleeding out.
Yep. Finn wounded him too. He was in rough shape. Guy was literally bleeding out.
 

DarkArk

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There's two types of Tie fighters in the movie. The first is the normal ties that are still one seaters. We see them chasing the Falcon on Jakku and again in the other dogfights.

The other is the Special Forces Tie, which they use to escape the Star Destroyer. Two seater, has missiles and a turret. Also much bigger than a normal Tie. We don't see them on screen at the same time, so I can see why people are confused.

The Resistance only has the T-70 because it is the only fighter Leia could get. The Resistance is literally her private army. So obviously you go with the multirole. Most people in the Republic think she's a warmonger.

I think the biggest misstep with this film was not giving more of the backstory. You don't make a sequel set 30 years in the future of a beloved series with six movies and give literally no information about what has happened. Also having no planets show up from the other movies was a mistake I think. It gives no real sense of continuity. I honestly wish Jakku had been Tatooine, then we would have seen what had become of the place. Also having no old aliens in the bar scene was weak.

Overall though I liked it. It's just that VIII is really going to have its work cut out for it.
 

Neverhoodian

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EHKOS said:
You're right, nearing the end I almost said out loud "Wait, where the FUCK are the Republic right now?!"
The thought crossed my mind as well. I guess taking out the capital means the entire galaxy-spanning New Republic is dead. Because if current events have taught us anything, it's that all you need to do is kill the leadership and the other side will instantly capitulate.

/s

In all seriousness, I'm hoping it's just a case of the New Republic getting temporarily blindsided before combining forces with the Resistance. If it really is destroyed outright...well, at least it's roughly consistent with how long it lasted in the old EU.

Also, I don't remember the Force ability to read minds ever being a thing. If it was around, then alright, I forgot about it, if not, it seems a bit OP and I'm on the fence about it.
Yep, it was around in the classic trilogy:

"...Sister! So, you have a twin sister! Your thoughts have now betrayed her, too."
-Darth Vader
 

Neverhoodian

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Pluvia said:
Wait where do they read minds in FA? Is that the part with Kylo and Poe? I just assumed he tortured the answer out of him.
I suppose that scene could be interpreted either way. However, the interrogation scene with Kylo and Rey seems to indicate this particular ability at work. I can't remember the exact line, but when Kylo starts his mind probe he says something to the degree of "I see it too...the island on the ocean."
DarkArk said:
There's two types of Tie fighters in the movie. The first is the normal ties that are still one seaters. We see them chasing the Falcon on Jakku and again in the other dogfights.

The other is the Special Forces Tie, which they use to escape the Star Destroyer. Two seater, has missiles and a turret. Also much bigger than a normal Tie. We don't see them on screen at the same time, so I can see why people are confused.

The Resistance only has the T-70 because it is the only fighter Leia could get. The Resistance is literally her private army. So obviously you go with the multirole. Most people in the Republic think she's a warmonger.

I think the biggest misstep with this film was not giving more of the backstory. You don't make a sequel set 30 years in the future of a beloved series with six movies and give literally no information about what has happened.
...Wow. That is incredibly helpful to know and should have been made more clear in the film. I assume this was gleaned from the new spate of novels? I haven't really bothered keeping up with the Expanded Universe (old or new) since the New Jedi Order books.

And that there is one of my biggest peeves with the film. I shouldn't have to resort to cracking open a book or consulting Wookieepedia to understand the setting.
 

Fappy

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Wow, wish I could say I am surprised by the opinions in this thread but I'm not. Impossible the please this crowd, it seems.

I had plenty of problems with the movie, but they are easily overshadowed by how fun it was. It was great, and now that Disney has proven themselves I hope Episode VIII can take us into uncharted territory. Hopefully they make another Empire without trying to make another Empire.