Star Wars, Lightsabers, and submachine guns

[Rednog]

Yes, blaster fire is slower than projectile weaponry. You based this upon...What now?

Because in sci-fi everyone uses LAZORS! Also light based weapons are more deadly then ballistic weapons and faster, since they travel at the speed of light. Star Wars would be less fun if you couldn't see the blaster shots though.

You realize that blaster fire is a laser and therefore, by definition, travels at the speed of light correct?

Thus, ballistic projectiles will never be able to go faster than blaster fire.

Here's the thing why are all of you assuming that the laser weapons in star wars move at the speed of light. We can clearly see the laser bolts fly through the air with the naked eye; considering you can see the individual bolt fly through the air it would definitely indicate that it is sign of it traveling far slower than the speed of light. If it were traveling at the speed of light it would travel from barrel to target far faster than you would be able to perceive.
Where as you don't see bullets travel through the air with the naked eye, thus it would stand to reason that in this scenario bullets would indeed be faster.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

You're talking about magical monks, here, right? You know - "normal" monks (as in, from king fu movies) have no problem catching arrows in mid air and deflecting them by the dozens with a stick or whatever. Just level them up and voila - psychic space monks, powered by magic, deflecting laser shots.

Monks who block arrows do so under incredibly controlled circumstances while anticipating.

You and I must have watched very different kung fu movies. I remember some were being shot at by armies. Others were shot at while blindfolded. Not exactly what I'd call "controlled circumstances". Well, maybe the blindfolded ones, although the arrow still goes towards them.

Besides, slugthrowers [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower] exist in the extended continuity and have been used to kill jedi...

Fair enough, I'm not really familiar with the EU, didn't know about them.

Actually in Episode 1 (I know so many people hate the movie) you can see Sandpeople using Slugthrowers during the pod race, the weapons bang, kick, and metal tings off the pod racers.

Problem:


Just replace Neo with a Jedi

Except the numerous times the Jedi are struck with ballistic toys they are proven to be unable to do that (Particularly when a grenade goes off nearby or other various times they are blasted with Slugthrowers

How many of those times have they been surprised, though? Considering the way blaster deflection works, even that takes some time to prepare. Not much, but at least a significant fraction of a second.

Although I guess you could be right. I enjoy the EU, but I quit reading it as a kid right before the New Jedi Order series got going, and while I started going through the whole (post OT) EU a few years ago, I've still got about five books to read before I can even start on the NJO. In other words, I haven't seen any of those scenes where Jedi other than Luke are involved in major battles. I've seen a few in minor skirmishes, but they didn't really do much with Luke's students at first.

 

[Rednog]

Yes, blaster fire is slower than projectile weaponry. You based this upon...What now?

Because in sci-fi everyone uses LAZORS! Also light based weapons are more deadly then ballistic weapons and faster, since they travel at the speed of light. Star Wars would be less fun if you couldn't see the blaster shots though.

You realize that blaster fire is a laser and therefore, by definition, travels at the speed of light correct?

Thus, ballistic projectiles will never be able to go faster than blaster fire.

Here's the thing why are all of you assuming that the laser weapons in star wars move at the speed of light. We can clearly see the laser bolts fly through the air with the naked eye; considering you can see the individual bolt fly through the air it would definitely indicate that it is sign of it traveling far slower than the speed of light. If it were traveling at the speed of light it would travel from barrel to target far faster than you would be able to perceive.
Where as you don't see bullets travel through the air with the naked eye, thus it would stand to reason that in this scenario bullets would indeed be faster.

Or rather they're just very small and not glowing bright red when they fire.

Except for the fact that you can attach something that is glowing and bright red to the bullet in something like tracer rounds. From the side they're extremely hard to see even though they're bright red and glowing because they are traveling so fast.

 

[Agayek]

Here's the thing why are all of you assuming that the laser weapons in star wars move at the speed of light. We can clearly see the laser bolts fly through the air with the naked eye; considering you can see the individual bolt fly through the air it would definitely indicate that it is sign of it traveling far slower than the speed of light. If it were traveling at the speed of light it would travel from barrel to target far faster than you would be able to perceive.
Where as you don't see bullets travel through the air with the naked eye, thus it would stand to reason that in this scenario bullets would indeed be faster.

You're confusing "artistic license" with "physics of the universe". The only reason you can see the lasers is because it looks better that way, instead of people falling over with charred holes in them.

It's the same reason you can hear the Death Star explode (unless you want to argue that sound can travel in a vacuum, which I have seen before, sadly enough).

 

[Quazimofo]

I could try to come up with a in-universe explanation but why try?

The answer is and will always be: because it is cool and having the good guys die because of a weapon we have in our world is boring. Same reason they use fighters, big ass space stations and blaster canons with shorter range than modern missiles.


see also: Harry Potter and sniper rifles.

Real question is: Why do you want to ruin the fun?

well, for harry potter, thats just a matter of everyone in the wizarding world being horrifically uninformed about "muggle" technology. If harry potter was more violent as a youth, he absolutely would have at least considered just taking a gun and ending voldemort right quick with a long-range lead injection.

but yeah, It is just more fun to see the heroes be able to swat away otherwise powerful weapons with a flick of the wrist.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Yes, blaster fire is slower than projectile weaponry. You based this upon...What now?

Because in sci-fi everyone uses LAZORS! Also light based weapons are more deadly then ballistic weapons and faster, since they travel at the speed of light. Star Wars would be less fun if you couldn't see the blaster shots though.

You realize that blaster fire is a laser and therefore, by definition, travels at the speed of light correct?

Thus, ballistic projectiles will never be able to go faster than blaster fire.

Here's the thing why are all of you assuming that the laser weapons in star wars move at the speed of light. We can clearly see the laser bolts fly through the air with the naked eye; considering you can see the individual bolt fly through the air it would definitely indicate that it is sign of it traveling far slower than the speed of light. If it were traveling at the speed of light it would travel from barrel to target far faster than you would be able to perceive.
Where as you don't see bullets travel through the air with the naked eye, thus it would stand to reason that in this scenario bullets would indeed be faster.

Or rather they're just very small and not glowing bright red when they fire.

Except for the fact that you can attach something that is glowing and bright red to the bullet in something like tracer rounds. From the side they're extremely hard to see even though they're bright red and glowing because they are traveling so fast.

One problem: /all/ of the guns in Star Wars kick when they're fired, for a pretty practical reason: they're real blank firing guns. You can even see casings ejecting in certain scenes in the OT. Having real smoke coming out of the guns apparently makes it easier for the rotoscope artists to time the animations.

Edit: Whoops, totally misread that. I thought the "Or maybe they're just small and not glowing bright red" was a reference to the comment about Tusken Raiders using a slug thrower during the podrace scene. A low FPS airsoft pistol probably throws BBs faster than the blasters in Star Wars.

 

[2xDouble]

Ammunition, particularly explosive-powder ammunition, is a liability when others have access to laser and plasma weapons. The more ammunition you carry, the higher probability one of those stored shells will be struck/superheated (even through armor) and detonated. Furthermore, projectile weapons require far more moving parts and mechanical systems than energy weapons (even plasma weapons), making them far more prone to break down, especially in zero- or low-gravity environments.

captcha: double whammy. That's it exactly, captcha.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

OT: Jedi don't react quickly, they can predict the immediate future. It's been explained by Lucas that they would be able to block bullets, but the bullets would vaporize in the blade rather than reflect.

Yeah, but a lightsabers blade is made of incredibly hot plasma, ionized gas, so not exactly the densest material. So unless I'm mistaken, the blade would vaporize the bullets metal, but do little to actually stop its momentum. So, instead of a lethally fast piece of solid metal, wouldn't you have a little cloud of lethally fast superheated metal vapor flying at you instead? Neither sounds like much fun to get hit with in the face.

I'm thinking using those future-predicting powers to simply dodge would be an altogether better idea.

 

[rcs619]

Also - wouldn't bullets be more trouble? Can you imagine how many of them you have to carry? As opposed to one battery or whatever fuels the plasma guns. Also, what could bullets possibly do to a sheet of metal? Oh right, melt it...wait, that was lasers. What possible advantage do bullets have? They are bulky, unreliable, can only penetrate certain kinds of armour, even then not that many (you have to use different bullets for different situation), and, to top it off, aren't likely to be effective against each species. Oh, and aren't likely to work properly in different places.

If you want to look at things from a more realistic perspective (I know, Star Wars, realism, lol =P) energy weapons are not necessarily a straight-up upgrade over kinetics. Both have things they do better than each other.

Energy weapons (lasers, plasma, etc) generally have terrible penetrating power (unless you go totally nuts, with like, grasers and stuff). They burn, and they melt, that's it. They have virtually zero weight behind the projectile itself. With the proper application of meta-materials and specialized surface coatings, you could, in theory, make armor extremely resistant to energy weapons. Not to mention, if you don't kill someone outright, there's no added trauma. You can't bleed someone out with a laser. On the positive side, energy weapons are (in theory... but apparently not in application in Star Wars) MUCH faster than any kinetic projectile will ever be, and much more accurate over longer distances.

With kinetic weapons, they have weight behind them. When they hit something, they penetrate. They rend, and tear and shatter. They also create much messier wounds, with bleeding, and embedded shrapnel not to mention things like tissue damage, tearing, etc (which, as cruel as it is, is what you want in a war). They're also likely going to be better against armored targets, since kinetic weapons are going to have superior penetrating power. This is assuming more futuristic bullets of course, likely made of superior materials and with a more powerful propellant behind them. Only way you can really make a comparison though, since comparing modern bullets to futuristic laser-guns is like comparing a flintlock pistol to an AK-47.

Personally, I'd rather have a slug-thrower, myself. The technology is simpler, more proven, and I want to know that when I hit something, they FEEL it

 

[Altorin]

could it be and I'm just throwing this out here, that lasers are better for movies and cinematic scenes in general because people can actually see them? As opposed to tiny bullets that fly faster then sound?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

'cos the Jedi would just catch them with his overpowered telekinesis and throw 'em all back at you, which he can't do with the non-solid blaster bolts.

Yeah, human reaction time is not that fast.
So, once more, WHY ARE THERE NOT AS MANY BULLETS!

Because blasters make for shiny special effects?

Yeah. It's a fairly common fallacy in science fiction - particularly stuff on the softer "sci-fantasy" end of the scale.

Star Trek does the same thing. There's no reason that conventional weaponry wouldn't work as well or better than most of their hand-held weaponry, but conventional weapons aren't 'spacey' enough.

That's one of the things I appreciate about Aliens, Firefly, and Mass Effect - they still use ballistic weapons. Why? Because they're cheaper, more reliable, and no less effective than something fancier.

Edit: At least Babylon 5 hangs a lantern on it by saying that PPGs won't punch a hole in the hull, whereas conventional weapons will. Hull breach is a fairly good reason to avoid using bullets.

 

[GoldenFish]

So, deflecting it isn't all that much of an option, so... Yeah, Ballistic Gunslinger against Jedi, gunslinger would win, because lightning bolts are basically bolts of plasma. So, I suppose against Jedi, it's the most valuable weapon... I suppose it wouldn't be as useful to anything else.

Isn't that assuming that only a single bolt of plasma (lightning or watevs) was going throught the bullet not a constant flow throughout the time the bullet is within the diameter of the lightsaber?
When you increase the bolts by how much would pass through in that time wouldn't the small amounts of degrees that it's being heated up increase greatly?

 

[saintdane05]

Meet the Golan Arms flechette launcher. Featured four canister tubes, each able to hold a single canister, with two reserve tubes. The FC-1 was capable of holding either antipersonnel canisters or eleven-centimeter-long antivehicle missiles with enough strength to rip through ten centimeters of durasteel. The flechette launcher had a secondary firing mode in which it fired two proximity grenades. It had an optimum range of 100 meters and a maximum range of 250 meters. Kyle Katarn used the FC-1 extensively in his career.

I call it, Jedi Killer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FC-1_flechette_launcher

 

[Spade Lead]

So, I have just one small thing that really bugged me about the star wars series...
Why is it always plasma weapons or lightsabers (Which can reflect Blaster Fire), and never, oh, lets say... Ballistic weapons, like a Submachine gun!? I mean, honestly, it seems to make sense, and it'll probably go faster then Blaster Fire it'll probably fire more then Blasters, leaving no time to respond, and can't be blocked! Why the hell does nobody REALIZE that!?

Just something that really bugged me.

Real lasers are speed of light weapons, and bullets would still be dissolved in the plasma of a lightsaber.