Star Wars: The Old Republic is EA's Most Expensive Project in History

[Elochai_IV]

I reckon The Old Republic could, and will, be jsut as big, probably bigger, than WoW, Mainly because Star Wars has alot more followers.

I mean, think of it: I know that there will be alot of "Old Timers" that would go out of there way to open their pension and extract however much is needed because they hear a new Star Wars "EPIC" is coming.

 

[Withall]

So... EA has the sci-fi geeks, and Blizzard has the fantasy geeks?

...

Well, that solves that problem. Now if we could just corral the FPS muppets into a true "Gears of War" game. MMO version, anyone?

 

[Sebenko]

interesting how everyone says PC gaming is dying, yet this is the most expensive EA project ever(admittedly an MMO, which tend to be like gaming crack if they work).

 

[Xanthious]

I hold to my belief that Bliz is going to keep a death grip on the MMO market with WoW until they are good and damn ready to let go. ToR is going to have a good initial few months but in the end I will be dumbfounded if they are able to MAINTAIN 1 million subscribers.

The problem for new MMOs right now is kinda prickly. First off, if you hope to draw people away from WoW you have to draw entire guilds away not just individuals. People want to play with their friends and people they have gotten to know and if those people aren't there eventually they will return to where those people are. Hell, I've been playing with the same group of guys and gals since EQ. I've seen people in my guild leave for any number of new MMOs but in the end they come back each and every time.

Secondly, you have to convince people to effectively abandon something they have invested a large amount of time and effort into to start over from scratch. My main in WoW has been the same since very very early in vanilla. Most people I know that play WoW have had the same main toon since they started playing. Its a tough sell to get mmo folks to up and abandon these toons they have so much invested into.

Thirdly, MMOs aren't for everyone and at this stage of things I think the untapped MMO crowd is fairly small. MMOs require a certain mindset and a good many people don't care for them for any number of reasons. Most people that enjoy MMOs are already playing one. This all means that most of your potential customers are already invested in another game. People are creatures of habit and once people find something they are comfortable with getting them to try something new can be tricky at best.

Finally MMOs, unlike other types of games, require such an investment of time that your typical person will only have time for one. This means you HAVE to convince people to leave their current game for yours which is tough because of any of the reasons Ive listed above.

All this said I absolutely believe that any upstart MMO will be destined for mediocrity for the time being. WoW is as strong as it's ever been with a massive expansion on the horizon that will only bring in more people and cement it's place even further. And even though I fully expect ToR to be an amazing game I simply feel at this time the deck is too stacked against ANY new MMO to find anything but meddling success.

 

[Tom Goldman]

It'll be done "when it's done?" Where have I heard that before?

By the makers of the most successful MMORPG of all time? Quit your whining.

Making a comparison is not whining, good sir.

 

[themrwinkleman]

Sweet. Friends and I have mentioned this idea in the past and had not thought that anybody would bother. Given the fan base of Star Wars (three generations of people now) I see this selling comfortably.

 

[Irridium]

Last time Bioware and Star Wars met it was amazing.

I have high hopes for this game. Since they stated they won't force group quests (FUCK YEAH!).

This is the only MMO to ever excite me. And I wait impatiently for it.

Well, "No forced group quests" isn't always a good thing. Champions Online tried this, and it was probably a part of why I thought the social aspect of that game sucked.

The problem with "no forced group content" is that it might lead to "no valuable group content while leveling" Which means you won't meet new people.

Then again Champions Online didn't have much the the Group content department at all when I played it. So as long as Old Republic has good group content which are rewarding while leveling up I will be happy.

Wow don't have much forced group content either anymore so I don't see what the big deal is. And Wow also do the concept of optional group content VERY well imo

I think the grouped stuff will be there for people who want to tackle it.

After all, the Star Wars galaxy is a big place, there's bound to be a decent amount of social aspects.

 

[darksakul]

A true test of a MMO would not be its release, but if they MMO is still in service 6 months later. I seen so many MMOs that died before the 6 month mark, 1 year mark and 2 year mark.

Anyone been playing Tabula Rasa, Asheron?s Call 2 or The Matrix Online lately?

Do not get me started on Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided, and EA's own Earth and Beyond, Motor City Online and The Sims Online, all failed MMOs.

Source: http://www.mmorpgate.com/2009/08/mmorpgs-that-failed-and-why.html

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Bioware - awesome
MMORPG - kinda awesome
Star wars - five different kinds of awesome
Only way I see this going to hell is awesome overdose, but I do think Bioware will manage to keep in line with Star Wars canon, as well as do a good MMO, they're already pwn at RPGs

 

[craddoke]

Every expensive MMORPG that fails brings us one step closer to the day when there will be no MMORPGs. I would be very content if WOW is the end of the line for these massive money/time/creativity sinks. Blizzard can continue to make those who love pointless level-grinding happy while the rest of the industry moves on.

It's too bad that Bioware will have to take a hit - but I would rather they learn their lesson now and concentrate their future energies on making real games.

Imagine, if not for SW:KOTOR we could have had KOTOR3 by now; if not for Anarchy Online/Secret World, we could have had two or three more Longest Journey games from Ragnar Tornquist; if not for Ultima Online, Lord British could have redeemed himself for Ultima 9 with an Ultima 10.

 

[Mr. Grey]

I have to question further... does Lucas Arts have a restrictive control on this game? If so, I expect this to fall the same as Star Wars Galaxies... even if EA can hold a large sway and BioWare can to boot, Lucas Arts will find some way to screw this all up... they always do.

Knights of the Old Republic 2 is a wonderful example... I'm also inclined to believe they were behind the nonsense that was the New Game Enhancement for Star Wars Galaxies, trying to make it seem more casual friendly to gather more subscribers.

"Yes, let's try to get more players playing. We'll take away everything we have about Star Wars Galaxies currently and make it more like World of Warcraft! With blasters!"
"What about the faithful subscribers that currently tolerate and/or love the gameplay now? Surely they outnumber the would be subscribers?"
"No! Not true at all, in fact you sound like you want to get fired. Let's go forth with this bold new plan!"

Yeah... it's not hard to see why they actually lost a lot of players. Still active, but rather pathetic in comparison to what they had. That was all by trying to be another game... you never try to be another game, you never try to compete with another game. You just make a freaking game and you try to make it fun! Why is that so hard to understand? Stop trying to kill other games, it's starting to make the industry become toxic.

 

[Danpascooch]

I don't think it's too good to be true, considering how much they're spending on it, and the fact that it's probably gonna be about $15 a month, I think it's just better than what's out there in terms of MMOs

From what I've seen of the game its gonna be a completely standard MMO (See WoW, WAR, AoC, Aion), with its apparant focus on story as the only thing that makes it stand out.
The hype for TOR looks a lot like the hype for these other games as well, and we all know how that went.

I simply dont think they have enough newness to get us MMO-burnouts to give a damn about it, and it probably wont pull that many ppl away from their current mmo of choice for very long.

Most of those other projects were low budget, or rushed.

This is by the best storytellers in the business, it's an MMO + story. And that means it's better than a normal MMO.

Since they're obviously giving this the time and budget it needs, why is it so hard to believe it will be the new big MMO?

 

[Seatownstriker]

This game looks soo tempting. Could really get myself in trouble with this one. I'm getting Diablo 3 first, no matter what.

 

[Feriluce]

I don't think it's too good to be true, considering how much they're spending on it, and the fact that it's probably gonna be about $15 a month, I think it's just better than what's out there in terms of MMOs

From what I've seen of the game its gonna be a completely standard MMO (See WoW, WAR, AoC, Aion), with its apparant focus on story as the only thing that makes it stand out.
The hype for TOR looks a lot like the hype for these other games as well, and we all know how that went.

I simply dont think they have enough newness to get us MMO-burnouts to give a damn about it, and it probably wont pull that many ppl away from their current mmo of choice for very long.

Most of those other projects were low budget, or rushed.

This is by the best storytellers in the business, it's an MMO + story. And that means it's better than a normal MMO.

Since they're obviously giving this the time and budget it needs, why is it so hard to believe it will be the new big MMO?

Because it just doesn't sound like another generic MMO with story tacked on. The story will probably be really great, but that cant sustain an MMO.
Once people have made 8 alts and played through the story, it will just be another WOW with generic combat, generic raids and generic pvp.
I'm sure it will sell a shitload of copies on release, but I do not think it will retain its subs.
As it was mentioned earlier, bioware games also usually have lackluster gameplay and mechanics. This is alright in a single player RPG where the always well written story is in focus, but its not gonna fly in a MMO where combat and mechanics are an integral part of the game. If the combat is clunky ppl wont play it for long.

GW2 on the other hand will also have a personal story where your choices matters and change the world you see. On top of that it will get rid of the generic and dull MMO quests and try a new approach with dynamic events. A proper implementation of scaling PQ's that will give you more of a sense that you actually have an impact on the world.
Furthermore we know from the first game that A-Net knows how to do PVP right, and in this installment we get both the arena style pvp where we know and love from GW1 (Where lvl and gear doesn't matter and it is all about skill) AND open server vs. server pvp where everyone can participate no matter lvl etc.
What more can you want from an MMO? A-net also has a track record of delivering what they've promised, so I'm optimistic that they will be able to do the things they say.

 

[Danpascooch]

I don't think it's too good to be true, considering how much they're spending on it, and the fact that it's probably gonna be about $15 a month, I think it's just better than what's out there in terms of MMOs

From what I've seen of the game its gonna be a completely standard MMO (See WoW, WAR, AoC, Aion), with its apparant focus on story as the only thing that makes it stand out.
The hype for TOR looks a lot like the hype for these other games as well, and we all know how that went.

I simply dont think they have enough newness to get us MMO-burnouts to give a damn about it, and it probably wont pull that many ppl away from their current mmo of choice for very long.

Most of those other projects were low budget, or rushed.

This is by the best storytellers in the business, it's an MMO + story. And that means it's better than a normal MMO.

Since they're obviously giving this the time and budget it needs, why is it so hard to believe it will be the new big MMO?

Because it just doesn't sound like another generic MMO with story tacked on. The story will probably be really great, but that cant sustain an MMO.
Once people have made 8 alts and played through the story, it will just be another WOW with generic combat, generic raids and generic pvp.
I'm sure it will sell a shitload of copies on release, but I do not think it will retain its subs.
As it was mentioned earlier, bioware games also usually have lackluster gameplay and mechanics. This is alright in a single player RPG where the always well written story is in focus, but its not gonna fly in a MMO where combat and mechanics are an integral part of the game. If the combat is clunky ppl wont play it for long.

GW2 on the other hand will also have a personal story where your choices matters and change the world you see. On top of that it will get rid of the generic and dull MMO quests and try a new approach with dynamic events. A proper implementation of scaling PQ's that will give you more of a sense that you actually have an impact on the world.
Furthermore we know from the first game that A-Net knows how to do PVP right, and in this installment we get both the arena style pvp where we know and love from GW1 (Where lvl and gear doesn't matter and it is all about skill) AND open server vs. server pvp where everyone can participate no matter lvl etc.
What more can you want from an MMO? A-net also has a track record of delivering what they've promised, so I'm optimistic that they will be able to do the things they say.

WoW with a story, is better than WoW, what you're telling me right now is that you're disappointed that it will only be a little bit better than WoW.

Considering how successful and fun WoW is, that sounds ridiculous to me.

WoW is the industry standard, As far as I know, that stuff will more or less be in ToR, THAT is what sustains it, the story is a bonus.

 

[Feriluce]

WoW with a story, is better than WoW, what you're telling me right now is that you're disappointed that it will only be a little bit better than WoW.

Considering how successful and fun WoW is, that sounds ridiculous to me.

WoW is the industry standard, As far as I know, that stuff will more or less be in ToR, THAT is what sustains it, the story is a bonus.

Is that really what you want? Wow with a story tacked on? If you think like that then I will rest my case and silently mourn the death of MMO's as a genre.

WoW was successful because it came out at the right time with the right features. From there on it snowballed with friends dragging their friends into WoW, etc, etc.
If you look at WoW as it is right now it is not very good. If it were to come out now in its current state it would probably not get a lot of subs. The only reason its still popular (although the sub numbers are falling or at least stagnant) is because a lot of people have invested so much time in their characters that they feel they cant just stop playing like that.

The industry doesn't need more of the same. The industry needs innovation. It needs to improve the formula. If that doesn't happen MMO's as a genre will die out because everyone will get tired of playing the same game with a different name all the time.

Edit:
This article sums up nicely what is wrong with MMO's, and why the genre isn't going anywhere:
http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=4221#91a20

 

[Danpascooch]

WoW with a story, is better than WoW, what you're telling me right now is that you're disappointed that it will only be a little bit better than WoW.

Considering how successful and fun WoW is, that sounds ridiculous to me.

WoW is the industry standard, As far as I know, that stuff will more or less be in ToR, THAT is what sustains it, the story is a bonus.

Is that really what you want? Wow with a story tacked on? If you think like that then I will rest my case and silently mourn the death of MMO's as a genre.

WoW was successful because it came out at the right time with the right features. From there on it snowballed with friends dragging their friends into WoW, etc, etc.
If you look at WoW as it is right now it is not very good. If it were to come out now in its current state it would probably not get a lot of subs. The only reason its still popular (although the sub numbers are falling or at least stagnant) is because a lot of people have invested so much time in their characters that they feel they cant just stop playing like that.

The industry doesn't need more of the same. The industry needs innovation. It needs to improve the formula. If that doesn't happen MMO's as a genre will die out because everyone will get tired of playing the same game with a different name all the time.

Edit:
This article sums up nicely what is wrong with MMO's, and why the genre isn't going anywhere:
http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=4221#91a20

The genre isn't going anywhere? Tell that to the over 10 million subscribers to WoW.

I don't want a story tacked on, I want a story elegantly integrated into the existing MMO model, if that isn't innovation, I don't know what is. You could describe ANYTHING with a "Oh, it's ______ with a _______ tacked on" but that's what innovation is, it's taking an existing model and improving and adding depth to them.

After all, a car is "just a horse with a motor tacked on" but I like that innovation just fine.

 

[Feriluce]

WoW with a story, is better than WoW, what you're telling me right now is that you're disappointed that it will only be a little bit better than WoW.

Considering how successful and fun WoW is, that sounds ridiculous to me.

WoW is the industry standard, As far as I know, that stuff will more or less be in ToR, THAT is what sustains it, the story is a bonus.

Is that really what you want? Wow with a story tacked on? If you think like that then I will rest my case and silently mourn the death of MMO's as a genre.

WoW was successful because it came out at the right time with the right features. From there on it snowballed with friends dragging their friends into WoW, etc, etc.
If you look at WoW as it is right now it is not very good. If it were to come out now in its current state it would probably not get a lot of subs. The only reason its still popular (although the sub numbers are falling or at least stagnant) is because a lot of people have invested so much time in their characters that they feel they cant just stop playing like that.

The industry doesn't need more of the same. The industry needs innovation. It needs to improve the formula. If that doesn't happen MMO's as a genre will die out because everyone will get tired of playing the same game with a different name all the time.

Edit:
This article sums up nicely what is wrong with MMO's, and why the genre isn't going anywhere:
http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=4221#91a20

The genre isn't going anywhere? Tell that to the over 10 million subscribers to WoW.

I don't want a story tacked on, I want a story elegantly integrated into the existing MMO model, if that isn't innovation, I don't know what is. You could describe ANYTHING with a "Oh, it's ______ with a _______ tacked on" but that's what innovation is, it's taking an existing model and improving and adding depth to them.

After all, a car is "just a horse with a motor tacked on" but I like that innovation just fine.

As I just explained to you. Wow's sub number are going down not up. People are starting to get tired of the standard formula, and for many the only reason they stay around is because they have friends on wow they dont just wanna leave behind.

You're right, TOR is doing some innovation with their story focus, but I think they're doing it wrong. To take your example. TOR is literally a horse with an engine strapped to it. It might be a perfectly fine engine, but it is not gonna make the horse into a car. In fact its probably gonna slow the horse down.

It seems to me like Bioware are trying to shoehorn the story of a single player rpg into the standard MMO formula, and while that might make the lvling up experience more enjoyable, people are gonna end up sitting at lvl cap with nothing to do but the standard boring mmo crap.

Edit: Also the reason the genre isn't going anywhere is probably because of those 10 mill wow subs.

 

[Danpascooch]

WoW with a story, is better than WoW, what you're telling me right now is that you're disappointed that it will only be a little bit better than WoW.

Considering how successful and fun WoW is, that sounds ridiculous to me.

WoW is the industry standard, As far as I know, that stuff will more or less be in ToR, THAT is what sustains it, the story is a bonus.

Is that really what you want? Wow with a story tacked on? If you think like that then I will rest my case and silently mourn the death of MMO's as a genre.

WoW was successful because it came out at the right time with the right features. From there on it snowballed with friends dragging their friends into WoW, etc, etc.
If you look at WoW as it is right now it is not very good. If it were to come out now in its current state it would probably not get a lot of subs. The only reason its still popular (although the sub numbers are falling or at least stagnant) is because a lot of people have invested so much time in their characters that they feel they cant just stop playing like that.

The industry doesn't need more of the same. The industry needs innovation. It needs to improve the formula. If that doesn't happen MMO's as a genre will die out because everyone will get tired of playing the same game with a different name all the time.

Edit:
This article sums up nicely what is wrong with MMO's, and why the genre isn't going anywhere:
http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=4221#91a20

The genre isn't going anywhere? Tell that to the over 10 million subscribers to WoW.

I don't want a story tacked on, I want a story elegantly integrated into the existing MMO model, if that isn't innovation, I don't know what is. You could describe ANYTHING with a "Oh, it's ______ with a _______ tacked on" but that's what innovation is, it's taking an existing model and improving and adding depth to them.

After all, a car is "just a horse with a motor tacked on" but I like that innovation just fine.

As I just explained to you. Wow's sub number are going down not up. People are starting to get tired of the standard formula, and for many the only reason they stay around is because they have friends on wow they dont just wanna leave behind.

You're right, TOR is doing some innovation with their story focus, but I think they're doing it wrong. To take your example. TOR is literally a horse with an engine strapped to it. It might be a perfectly fine engine, but it is not gonna make the horse into a car. In fact its probably gonna slow the horse down.

It seems to me like Bioware are trying to shoehorn the story of a single player rpg into the standard MMO formula, and while that might make the lvling up experience more enjoyable, people are gonna end up sitting at lvl cap with nothing to do but the standard boring mmo crap.

Edit: Also the reason the genre isn't going anywhere is probably because of those 10 mill wow subs.

I've never known Bioware to "shoehorn" story into anything, what makes you think that this will just have a story tacked on? Bioware is amazing at weaving stories into games without it feeling tacky.

And if you cap at over 10 million, how can that be viewed as "going nowhere"? This game is ten years old, and has over 10 million subscribers, that's the most successful and profitable game of all time, I wouldn't say the genre is "going nowhere" because a game in that genre can ONLY get over 10 million.

 

[Feriluce]

I've never known Bioware to "shoehorn" story into anything, what makes you think that this will just have a story tacked on? Bioware is amazing at weaving stories into games without it feeling tacky.

And if you cap at over 10 million, how can that be viewed as "going nowhere"? This game is ten years old, and has over 10 million subscribers, that's the most successful and profitable game of all time, I wouldn't say the genre is "going nowhere" because a game in that genre can ONLY get over 10 million.

You're right to an extent. Bioware games always have good writing, and the good writing usually overshadows any flaws in the game. However while that is fine for a singleplayer game that you use 30 hours or so to play through once, its just not gonna work that way in an MMO where players are expected to use possibly thousands of hours. I dont doubt that lvling up part of TOR will be great, but I have very huge doubts about the endgame.

You're also completely missing the point about wow (Which is only 5-6 years old. Not 10). WoW did bring something new to the table when it came out back in 2004. Even though it did steal most of its mechanics from other mmo's at the time it did it very well, and blended it together into a new experience that people hadn't seen before.
However since then there have been pretty much zero innovation in the genre. Because every dev and their mom wanna get a piece of WoW pie they try to remake wow with a bit of makeup to make it look new, but it just never works.
Devs need to get out of the mindset that they need to be like WoW to be successful, and start innovating. The only game that can tip WoW off its pedistal will be a game that advances the genre, and gives mmo players a new and interesting experience.