Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Paragon Fury]

So I'm sitting here and I can't decide if I should get SW:TOR. I've even tried the "Good vs. Bad" list approach and it pretty much came out even.

On one side, it does look interesting, I do like Star Wars; and its made by Bioware. Who, ignoring that little DA2 fiasco, is generally pretty damn good at making dem there videjo games. And it seems to have come out pretty well.

But on the other hand, I do already play WoW. And I've signed up for the yearly WoW subscription (but more so for Diablo 3 than WoW, even though I still do play), which costs a pretty penny. And I've heard some pretty conflicting stuff from people who've actually played the game, ranging from the game being the second coming to "Why the hell does this even exist?". And the one thing that keeps sticking in my head was one person I know who played it who said "I'm level 50, and I still haven't seen one reason, other than the half-assed PvP, as to why this game wouldn't have been better as a dedicated single player RPG."

So does the Escapist have an opinion on SWTOR?

 

[Instant K4rma]

I'm loving it so far. BioWare stuck to their guns and kept a strong emphasis on storytelling. If you don't mind MMO gameplay, I'd say give it a whirl.

Plus, BioWare plans to release large amounts of content as time goes on. EA rushed them for a holiday release, so they cut a lot of content that they intend to incorporate in upcoming patches/updates.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

There's a ton of bad press going around right now, and I can't help but think some of it might just be from handling their speed bumps rather poorly. But I still like the game well enough, it's just something you have to decide for yourself.

 

[Paragon Fury]

I would decide for myself, but there isn't a free trial anywhere that I've seen, and the one person I know around here who has it won't let me try it out right now.

 

[Hagi]

SWtOR is a solid themepark MMO that combines a lot of elements from WoW with a lot of elements you see in Bioware's storytelling. It also has the Star Wars setting.

I think it's a great game, it's a lot of fun.

But if you go in expecting a perfect game you'll be very, very mistaken.

It's got the least amount of bugs of any MMO launch, but there are definitely bugs.
There's a lot of content to explore and a lot of things to do, but if you rush to end-game and start raiding every night as soon as possible you'll run out within a month.
There's some great stories and some really challenging choices, but there's also some very serious limitations due to the genre and Bioware not having infinite resources.

I hope you're getting the picture. It's a solid game that's evolving the genre. It's not a perfect game that's causing a revolution.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

I really enjoy the game, It's well made. While I am an new to MMO's I have played almost every bio-ware to date and you can definitively tell its a bioware game. I don't really like playing with other people so I try to do as much solo as possible but I've warmed up to playing with people. My friend who was one of the best pvp players in wow really likes it and it has been the only mmo ever to take his for wow.

I can only recommend the game, even with it's player balance issue's.

The story part is very good to if thats an issue also, while their are some parts that bore a little, that's because it's has good length.

 

[VladG]

As a former WoW player, the beta at least gave me NO reason to buy TOR. Gameplay is very nearly identical to WoW. Hell, half the abilities of the Jedi Knight I played are very similar to WoW's warrior. And I frankly couldn't stand the ranged classes.

The smuggler for example feels like playing a siege tank in starcraft. Go there, deploy (aka go in cover) spam abilities, undeploy, move, cover, spam, move, cover...

The story felt weak for Bioware standards (better than any other MMO out there, granted) but not good enough to keep me interested. And so far I've loved every Bioware TM story driven game.

Progression is grind-tastic, just like WoW, but the much more linear nature of the levels makes it feel a lot worse. And the 10 or so hours I've spent as a Republic char on Coruscant was some of the worst gaming experience in my life. I sure as hell don't even want to contemplate going through that multiple times with alts.

Again, as someone who has all the WoW expansions up and a still active subscription I see no reason to pay for more of the same, but with a Star Wars paint-job that's not properly dry yet.

My advice is to wait it out a bit, see how the game evolves, and how the content patches shape up.

Also I'm surprised to hear there's no trial. Seriously, who launches an MMO without a trial?

 

[ACM_Shadow]

Its a great game, but some people have hyped it up, i find it's best described as a KOTOR story + MMO combat. (would've liked a SP/offline version because of the story but meh) So far i'm in love with this game.

Another bad part, they have the light/dark side actions that i find really bland (why cant i just pretend to let this guy live until my employer is rescued from him, why do i either need to let him go period, or kill him and risk my paycheck).

So as Hagi said, its a solid game (unsure about evolving the genre, unless you mean the voice acting)

 

[Imper1um]

1. If you're just looking for gameplay (as VladG mentioned), you will be sorely disappointed. It does not deviate from the norm (Trinity, MMO issues). You should stick with whatever MMO you are currently playing, since its going to offer you nothing good.

2. If you're looking for a story that's not paper thin, has some awesome story points (devil's advocate: some of the story points are actually very predictable), and actually tries to do story line in its end game content, rather than "Holy sh*t, dragon attacking, no reason why except it wants to destroy. You should kill it. Next week...everything is fine, and we get to go to Panda nation!"

That's all I have to say.

 

[Draken Steel]

I've been playing it and very much enjoyed it. That said...yes it would have been better as a single player. But I can tolerate some mmo mechanics for the sake of the dialog.

If your a fan of bioware style games, I would recommend it to see the story if nothign else. Yes, its technically an mmo, but once youve beaten the stories you can jsut unsub.

As for classes.....well Bounty Hunter is amazing. Regretting the fact I levels a warrior first.

 

[Stainlesssteele4]

If you liked Dragon Age: Origins, or are a fan of MMOs in general, or really love the Star Wars universe, it's for you.
The story elements seem a bit lacking near the start, but the story picks up near act 2, and gets really interesting if you're even the least bit invested in it.
Lots of stuff to do endgame too, with hardmode flashpoints, raids, and a few fun PvP warzones.

 

[Hagi]

Also I'm surprised to hear there's no trial. Seriously, who launches an MMO without a trial?

That'd be every AAA MMO ever.

 

[VladG]

Also I'm surprised to hear there's no trial. Seriously, who launches an MMO without a trial?

That'd be every AAA MMO ever.

Really?

Well, I'll admit that I've never actually kept an eye on any MMO launch to know if they've had trials at launch or not, TOR was the first to actually get me interested enough, and I got my trial in the beta so I never looked it up after launch.

But I still find it strange not to offer a trial.. WoW has one, Rift has one, EVE has one...

 

[Hagi]

Also I'm surprised to hear there's no trial. Seriously, who launches an MMO without a trial?

That'd be every AAA MMO ever.

Really?

Well, I'll admit that I've never actually kept an eye on any MMO launch to know if they've had trials at launch or not, TOR was the first to actually get me interested enough, and I got my trial in the beta so I never looked it up after launch.

But I still find it strange not to offer a trial.. WoW has one, Rift has one, EVE has one...

It's mostly marketing.

At launch you've got the initial hype. So there'll be lots of people who wouldn't rationally buy your game but get caught up and give you money anyway.

After a month, maybe two most of these will cancel their subscription and go play something else again.

Then once you're ready to roll out a major patch or even a first expansion all these people will get interested again and take a second look. Yet they'll be hesitant to subscribe, so you release a free trial hoping that they'll again get caught up and subscribe for another month or two to give you extra money.

At the same time you'll have ironed most of the bugs out and have a stable game so that all the hesitant buyers can give it a free try and experience the best you have offer, hopefully convincing them to buy the game as well.

Releasing a free trial at release is, marketing-wise, a really stupid thing to do. And we're talking about a AAA MMO here, those cost tons of money to make. Major decisions are going to be made based on simple economics, can't really blame them to be honest.

 

[Verzin]

I Loved it to death. right up till I was about level 40ish. then I just got...frustrated. I'd skipped a few bonus series because I wanted to find out what happened next in my class quest (I was playing a SI) and...I dunno. I got underleveled and disillusioned. I was hoping for a interesting apprentice system and you do get apprentices, two of them to be exact, but there is no teaching there. just the same 10 or 12 60-70 second conversations that change nothing. companions are completely static. they don't interact with your choices in any meaningful way andI didn't get any meaningful enjoyment out of raising affection so I could do one of the 60-70 second conversations with them.

I was also hoping for an interesting class quest, but aside from the writing, which is excellent, don't get me wrong, it really had amazing potential there, there isn't much depth. Instead of a formula where you perform choices that influence the world around you, influence the path of your companions, or influence anything at all really, all of the choices are....weak. Let some guy live or kill him, be a dick or succumb to absolutely ridiculous altruism. it doesn't matter because it'll end the same way no matter what you do: success, glory, and rewards.

let me say this: it may be true the original KOTOR games had many similarities in the choice system, but they had DYNAMIC CONSEQUENCES for your decisions. There are no 'real' consequences here. in the KOTOR games you could do things that would FOREVER poison your companions against you.

in SWTOR you can pretty much commit genocide for no reason right in front of your light sided companion, and the consequence? -40ish affection. two gifts later all is forgiven.
ugh...I'm truly depressed that this game is an MMO. they could have had such a extraordinary achievement here. I hope that the series doesn't end like this.

EDIT: just to be clear, I was in it more for the story and non-MMO gameplay. I'm a little biased in that regard.

 

[Samechiel]

I think everyone's opinion of ToR would improve somewhat if there was no monthly subscription fee.

As it is, they want you to pay 60 bucks + 15 more a month to play a fairly mediocre Bioware single-player RPG with optional multiplayer capability.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

let me say this: it may be true the original KOTOR games had many similarities in the choice system, but they had DYNAMIC CONSEQUENCES for your decisions. There are no 'real' consequences here. in the KOTOR games you could do things that would FOREVER poison your companions against you.

They did?

I know this is blasphemy in some circles, but let's not pretend KOTOR was in any way, shape or form "dynamic". None of Bioware's games are. They're very rigid story based experiences with hilariously binary morality, and KOTOR was arguably the worst offender of all in this regard. TOR isn't any kind of monument to great story telling, but it's very in keeping with Bioware's formula.

So does the Escapist have an opinion on SWTOR?

Hagi had the most balanced take on it. It's a solid AAA theme park MMO with good fundamentals. If you enjoy Star Wars, or theme park MMOs in general, there is lots to like here.

It is also almost stubbornly anachronistic in its design philosophy, aside from the fully voiced cutscenes, which is a first for the genre. If you're looking for something new and revolutionary in the world of MMOs, you're not going to find it here. Think of it as a comfortable old boot.

I think it's best looked at as a kind of "co-op KOTOR" that you can play with friends and loved ones. Or strangers, if you're a masochist. Whether or not it has the legs, or the mechanical sophistication, to be a "lifestyle MMO" the way WoW, EVE and Everquest were for many remains to be seen. Based on what I've seen so far, my gut says "no". But that doesn't mean it's not worth picking up and enjoying. There are potentially hundreds of hours of game play here just doing the class stories.

 

[Verzin]

let me say this: it may be true the original KOTOR games had many similarities in the choice system, but they had DYNAMIC CONSEQUENCES for your decisions. There are no 'real' consequences here. in the KOTOR games you could do things that would FOREVER poison your companions against you.

They did?

I know this is blasphemy in some circles, but let's not pretend KOTOR was in any way, shape or form "dynamic". None of Bioware's games are. They're very rigid story based experiences with hilariously binary morality, and KOTOR was arguably the worst offender of all in this regard. TOR isn't any kind of monument to great story telling, but it's very in keeping with Bioware's formula.

I'd disagree about KOTOR not being dynamic, though you do have a point about Bioware's formula.
I was more specifically taking about KOTOR II which was obsidian, but in the original KOTOR there are also examples of dynamic play. look at how you would need to KILL quite a few of your companions depending on your choices up to that point (or maybe not depending on your persuade skill), and also the amount of character development that went on in the conversations between you and your shipmates. these are examples of the consequences I spoke of in my previous post.

binary morality? yeah. in the first one. Kreia mixed all that stuff up in KOTOR II though.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'd disagree about KOTOR not being dynamic, though you do have a point about Bioware's formula.

I was more specifically taking about KOTOR II which was obsidian, but in the original KOTOR there are also examples of dynamic play. look at how you would need to KILL quite a few of your companions depending on your choices up to that point (or maybe not depending on your persuade skill), and also the amount of character development that went on in the conversations between you and your shipmates. these are examples of the consequences I spoke of in my previous post.

binary morality? yeah. in the first one. Kreia mixed all that stuff up in KOTOR II though.

I guess we need to define how you're using dynamic. For me, a dynamic gaming experience means it is constantly in a state of change, or potential change. The only games that really offer this are sandbox games, or any game with sufficient random variables. Bioware (and Obsidian) RPGS offer a tightly controlled narrative experience. There's little dynamic to it outside of "Do I press A, B or C during this conversation". At no point does anything you do take the story off the rails, or veer it off in a startling new direction. You're still going to get marched through all the set pieces and conflict points. At best, you're offering a slight influence over tertiary elements. And this is in no way meant to be a slam on those games. Even the best story based games of all, like Planescape, are anything but "dynamic".

I don't necessarily think TOR's storytelling is on par with their single player games...it's not. But it couldn't be. They're handcuffed by the restrictions of the genre. Single player games are primarily about STORY. MMOs are primarily about BALANCE. You can bend everything to fit the story in a single player game. In a MMO, the story has to bend to the mechanical needs of the game. You can't, for example, have someone killing their companion, or annoying them to the point where they leave forever, only to find themselves unable to solo the content any more because they've irrevocably broken their character.

Anyone looking to appreciate TOR's story content needs to do so with the limitations of the genre in mind. This is not Witcher 2, folks. You're still collecting 10 bear asses. You're just doing it in style, now.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Anyone who says it's the "the least buggy MMO at launch ever" never played Rift. And that's kind of weird, because something like 1 million people have played that game. By comparison, SWTOR is bug-ridden. I'm sure they'll clean all that up eventually, though.

SWTOR really is just WoW (buggier and less developed) by Bioware with the Star Wars license. That sounds fucking awesome to some people, and I'm not going to begrudge them their fun.

But my take?

I think the storytelling is painfully predictable and cliche - basically Bioware 101, never missing any of the beyond well-worn beats, and rarely managing to veil the tiresome MMO quest tropes.

The mechanics are WoW all over again, which is pretty damn primitive given state-of-the-genre fare like Rift and some of the upcoming releases. The "feel" is surprisingly awful; tons of ability lag and animation issues, which are quite infuriating and crippling in PvP.

Technically, the game is well behind the times, the cartoony aesthetic doing its best to cover up the weak texturing and bland models/environments. Runs well, though.

Perhaps worst of all: you're dealing with EA. Seems like they go out of their way to do stupid shit with respect to the community, and that's bad news when you're dealing with a genre that forces constant interaction with the devs/publisher.

Bottomline: if you've got some friends playing, it's probably worth a month or two of your time. If they fix up the ability lag and other bugs, and keep the content flowing, it might have some staying power. It's definitely NOT the second-coming of WoW.