Star Wars VII - What if LUKE is the villain?

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thejboy88

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Just a disclaimer, I'm probably going to be 100% wrong about this, but I just wanted to get this out while I was still thinking about it.

Okay, so as most of us know, the new Star Wars film is going to be coming out in a few months time, and like a lot of other long-time fans of the franchise, I'm excited. My brother and I, we've been tracking all the trailers, the posters and every tidbit of info we can get our hands on regarding what it might be like.

However, one evening, we were looking at the recent poster for the film, and I couldn't help but notice something important about it. The conversation that followed was more-or-less like this:

Me: "I don't get it! Why isn't he on the posters yet?"

My brother: "Who?"

Me: "Luke! I mean, he was THE hero of the original trilogy, and yet he's not been in any of the trailers or even this poster here! We have Han and Leia, but no Luke, so what gives?"

MB: "Well...maybe they've decided to keep him out of this one. It IS a trilogy after all, so maybe they're saving him till films two or three?"

Me: "That can't be it. They've already announced that he'll be in this one. So again, why not put him in the poster?"

MB: "...Well...maybe he IS."

Me: "What?"

MB: "Maybe he HAS been in the poster this whole time. I dunno...maybe THAT'S him."

Me: "Who?"

MB: "THAT guy! You know, the one in the mask."

Me: "What? That CAN'T be Luke! Look, red lightsaber. It's a bad guy!"

MB: "Well...maybe that's what Abrams has chosen to do with him in this film...make him a villain."

And yeah, that's where the idea came from for me. Maybe Abrams, when making this movie, decided to make it so that Luke is a bad guy instead of a good guy this time around. Now, since that conversation, I've been doing more research on the film, and have discovered that this masked figure in the trailers and posters is actually a separate character called Kylo Ren, and NOT Luke.

So, at that point I was feeling quite relieved. However, I then started to remember just who it was that was making this film. For those of you who haven't seen it or maybe don't remember, former Escapist MovieBob once posted a video talking about JJ and his method of making films, specifically a technique called "the mystery box", and how there are little teases and hints as to what's really going on in his films before they come out.

Once I remembered that I started looking at the posters and trailers AGAIN (and for the record, yes I was actually getting sick of doing this at this point), and started thinking about it closer. Who is to say that, despite being ANNOUNCED as separate characters, that Luke and Kylo Ren are actually ONE character, and that the announcement was just a deliberate attempt to mislead us?

Or, perhaps, Kylo Ren is someone unrelated to the masked figure in the posters, and that the latter is indeed Luke. I mean, I don't recall them ever specifically saying that Kylo IS the masked man. When I went back to the trailers, and saw that figure hold Darth Vader's burned helmet, speaking the words "I will finish what you started", that sounds an awful lot like something a successor (like a son) would say to him. Perhaps Luke, in an effort to finish some task of his father's (maybe fighting the Empire or bringing balance to the force) has taken up the dark side to do it?

And before people say that this would go against Luke's character, perhaps you'll remember that he's done some pretty heavy dark side stuff in the past, like using his Dad's favourite technique of mind-choking people when he went up against Jabba's guards back in the old days. Also, the trailers show the masked figure start to duel that other character, who we now know is some kind of former stormtrooper. And fighting stormtroopers is something Luke did PLENTY of way back when. Maybe that's ALSO something Abrams plans to do, have the members of the Empire be in a better light while having the older good guy character tread a darker path while keeping up their fight against them?

There's a lot more stuff and ideas that popped into my head about all this when I thought about this matter, but yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
 

Scarim Coral

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I going to put this under spoiler

Nope, it's Adm Drivers that is playing as Kylo Ren aka the Sith like character in the firlm.
 

DefunctTheory

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Yeah... no.

1. Kylo Ren is shown, unmasked, but in the same suit as the Inquisitor (I think that's what he is).
2. Luke Skywalker is in the trailer, in traditional Jedi garb.
3. Someone would string Abrams up in a tree.
4. It make no sense whatsoever.
5. M. Night Shamalangading-dong did not have anything to do with this movie.
 

sky pies

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The suggestion that Luke would have forearms the size of this guy's ones is a bit outlandish to me...
 

Johnny Novgorod

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He could be the villain behind the villain, Palpatine style. It wouldn't make much sense, and I wouldn't like it, but I'm not putting it past JJ "I made Lost" Abrams.
 

Glongpre

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It doesn't make sense for me. Luke already said he wouldn't go to the dark side in the original trilogy, so to go back on that would be really lame.

If he becomes a grey jedi though, that would be cool. They should really flesh one of those guys out, they would be the most interesting to me.

Or make him kinda like Kreia, but he is light side of course.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Someone else brought this up in another Star Wars thread, and I threatened to find him and end him with a lightsaber if it turned out to be true.

This was already done in the comics in the E.U. Luke turned to the Dark Side and was working with the Emperor for a bit there. They brought him back, of course, but it's been done. If they're just going to do the same thing again, then they should have picked a better story from the E.U. to copy.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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Besides everything that's been said, Luke is in the trailers briefly. A hooded, kneeling man places his robotic arm on R2D2 and this is clearly meant to be Luke.
 

Elfgore

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Scarim Coral said:
I going to put this under spoiler

Nope, it's Adm Drivers that is playing as Kylo Ren aka the Sith like character in the firlm.
This isn't necessarily directed at Scarim, but feel free to answer if you know, Is that image Photoshopped or an actual picture from the movie? The guy looks so out of place in the environment and unnaturally placed in it, it just feels off to me

Yeah, I doubt it. That's a pretty bad twist that would have me sighing so hard I might run myself out of oxygen.
 

Scarim Coral

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Elfgore said:
Scarim Coral said:
I going to put this under spoiler

Nope, it's Adm Drivers that is playing as Kylo Ren aka the Sith like character in the firlm.
This isn't necessarily directed at Scarim, but feel free to answer if you know, Is that image Photoshopped or an actual picture from the movie? The guy looks so out of place in the environment and unnaturally placed in it, it just feels off to me

Yeah, I doubt it. That's a pretty bad twist that would have me sighing so hard I might run myself out of oxygen.
All I know was that photo was part of some production shots that was releases months ago.
While I'm not saying I am fully correct but that photo is reinforce by the new trailer if you can catch the scene carefully. Pause at 1.58 and you see that snow fight with someone back who is dressed in black and have the same wavy hairstyle as the one in the photo. Lol I read some comment that people mistake that person as John SnoW from Game of Thrones!
 

Fox12

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It would be a monumentally stupid decision that would make little to no sense. Only a fool would think that this is a good idea. Unfortunately, the director of this film, as Novgorod so eloquently put it, is J.J. "I made Lost" Abrams. God help us all.

Besides, the person in the suit isn't necessarily the character. It could be a red herring, or it could be a younger stunt man in the suit, with Mark Hamill coming in for impotent bits. Let's not forget that Vader was played by some Scottish guy. I don't know, I would be surprised if Luke wasn't the villain at this point.
 

Thaluikhain

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Eh, why not go the whole way and have him travel back in time, and it was him that got Vader's mum magically pregnant?
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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Fox12 said:
It would be a monumentally stupid decision that would make little to no sense. Only a fool would think that this is a good idea. Unfortunately, the director of this film, as Novgorod so eloquently put it, is J.J. "I made Lost" Abrams. God help us all.
It would be a logical step from what he did in Star Trek: Into Darkness. It makes perfect sense for Abrams to make plots that make no sense at all.

Plus the dude is obsessed with symmetry, so seeing as episodes 1-3 are about Vader's transformation to the dark side, 4-6 are about Luke's rise to Jedidom and Vader's fall, he'd quite happily make 7-9 about Luke's fall (and something else).
 

babinro

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I'm reasonably confident Luke's severed head is tumbling around inside of that ball droid. He's being preserved Futurama style in order to teach others the force.
 

Fox12

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undeadsuitor said:
Fox12 said:
It would be a monumentally stupid decision that would make little to no sense. Only a fool would think that this is a good idea. Unfortunately, the director of this film, as Novgorod so eloquently put it, is J.J. "I made Lost" Abrams. God help us all.
The one hope though is that this is Disney. Abrams probably has more strings on him than Pinocchio with a bondage fetish. Hopefully someone high up in the House of Mouse saw Into Darkness and has taken it upon themselves to prevent another motion picture franchise abortion.
Disney wanted Abrams, though. It's more likely that they saw Into Darkness and thought "this is our guy."

I'm so conflicted on this. Part of me wants them to try something daring and new, but I don't trust Abrams to do something like that. On the other hand, they could play it safe and make a normal action sci-fi series, but if they're just going to redo the original trilogy, then what's the point? Personally, I'd like to see someone like Ben Affleck direct his own Star Wars trilogy. The guys actually pretty smart, and he's shown his directing chops with films like Argo and Good Will Hunting. In other words, I'd like someone with a little bit of artistic integrity involved.

We'll see. I hope it turns out alright : /
 

Sarge034

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thejboy88 said:
The thread for Yahtzee's judging by the cover had some interesting ideas, one in particular involving the Yuuzhan Vong. Basically you hear Mr dark n deadly say he'd finish what Vader started. And they surmised that what if Luke took on the role of a galactic enforcer to get the galaxy ready for the unknown danger a la Fable 3.

Otherwise, I take issue with this...

"Me: "What? That CAN'T be Luke! Look, red lightsaber. It's a bad guy!"

In the post empire/ new gelatic republic era in the EU (assuming that part didn't get retconed too) the jedi at the temple could make any color lightsaber they wanted.
 

immortalfrieza

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I could see Luke as an antagonist for this movie, but not a villain. The protagonist being at odds with Luke for most of the movie I could see happening, but Luke being a villain for any reason would be a major character assassination from any perspective.

Considering how good the Star Trek Reboot movies turned out to be I'm sure Abrams will do well enough, and with all the Marvel movies Disney has proven they generally know what they hell they are doing.
 

AT God

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I actually thought this a few days ago. I hadn't read up on the new movie, all I knew was Ford was returning so I looked up the cast after seeing Fisher on the poster. When I saw Hamill was on the IMDb page I wondered if that meant he was the guy in the mask. I looked up what information is known about the film and apparently that cannot be the case unless all the leaked stuff was intentionally misleading. However, I do like the idea that he becomes a bad guy though because I think that would make a fair bit of sense and could be a major jumping off point for more films.

I personally do not hate the prequels, but I didn't grow up watching the originals so I simply see the original trilogy as a set of interesting but horribly acted sci fi movies. And I personally like how they humanized a character who was essentially Space Hitler (although I can see why people hated that decision).

It could be interesting if they made Luke the bad guy and set that up as a major thing, that there is some sort of inevitable evil nature to those who are extremely strong with the force. Especially since a major flaw with the series has always been that the bad guys were always far more powerful than the good guys in Star Wars.

Although I am assuming they are just putting Hamill in as a wrap up closure scene, I doubt he will be a major plot point or even appear in any future films. I would be surprised if Ford appears again as well.