State of Indie

[viranimus]

Ok preface I love indie gaming. I am overjoyed to see indies come to the forefront. To see so many people building things that I love. I love seeing that indies are helping to keep the industry vibrant and moving forward.

However I am wondering have we started to hit on a point of indie over saturation? Its great that we have so many unique niche games to choose from but when you become deeply involved in the indie game scene one of the first indications is you start to see so much repetition. Especially with all the "retro-ish" platformers and Rpgs. (again dont get me wrong I like these things too and youll take my Cthulhu saves the world over my cold dead hand)

Then as it progresses you come to realize there are "bridge simulators" and "Riverboat cargo deliver simulators", Even a game that virtualizes the 10th concentric circle of hell propagated with cube dwelling zombie hordes in call center simulators.

We also know that building games takes extensive work and effort. There are hundreds of thousands of game options available in fully developed games, Crowd funded projects from bygone industry heroes and obscure garage startups alike. When you really look the number of games being developed and the number of people involved with such development is beyond staggering.

So the questions are, Are we currently over saturated with Indie development? Would such effort be better utilized if the number of people working on indie projects could be corralled into focusing on slightly larger, more focused projects? Are we better off with this "exact niche" approach? What could indie development do to improve from here?

 

[OneCatch]

Variety never hurts, as long as the quality is there. It allows ideas that would never get published otherwise to flourish. For example, Antichamber [http://www.antichamber-game.com/] would never have been published by a bigger dev, even after the success of Portal, but it's genuinely great (completely non-derivative, inventive, visually arresting, and aggressively independent). And it was made by one guy.

Another example is Sanctum. I know it's gone a bit bigger since, but the first was released out of the blue, and was a great idea that was fresh. Notably, it actually had a strong female lead[footnote]Really not looking to get into a debate about gender in games or TropesVwomen or whatever[/footnote], which would never have gotten past a big dev because the backers would have been concerned about appealing to demographies.
In both of these examples my point isn't about the game type or lead gender, but more that indie devs are generally far more able to steer a game in a unique or risky artistic direction that a larger publisher can't.

I think that there are instances of indie devs taking the piss with regard to pricing (looking at you Planetary Annihilation), but that's an exception rather than a trend, and frankly, most indie devs aren't expecting me to provide $60 for the game, $30 for DLC, access to my computer for DRM, and my advertising profile to sell.

I don't really think the Indie market can improve itself - at this point it's greatest strength is it's diversity, and what people like is what will end up becoming successful.
Hopefully the bigger publishers will start being a bit more eager to support smaller titles, but that's down to them not the indie market.

 

[Zhukov]

The indie scene, eh? Well, uh... I like that it exists.

The retro thing is getting pretty old though. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

Also, kinda over the many, many many attempts at "ironic" humour. Turns out a lot of folks aren't half as funny as they think they are.

Guess you just have to take the good with the bad. Y'know, like with the mainstream industry.

 

[OneCatch]

The retro thing is getting pretty old. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

This I have to agree with. Those games are almost hipsterish.
That said, if there's a market for it they can knock themselves out - just don't expect me to buy it.
In the same way that I derive great enjoyment from the act of not buying COD (Yes, call me sad, but I actually do enjoy that thought of "Ooh, look at this shiny £50 that I'm not spending on a repetitive game!")

 

[Tom_green_day]

I don't really immerse myself fully in the indie scene/group/community/whatever, but it just seems like a place to put all the games that otherwise would not sell as the majority and the market doesn't really care. Since this is a limited scope, to me at least it has always been oversaturated with the same things again and again and again, and I don't care too much for it. Things like Minecraft and Game Dev Tychoon are fun and I play them, but there are so many roguelike or 2D games, especially with a fantasy or sci-fi setting. The way I see it, as soon as games became mainstream and not just for 'geek culture', these games were played to give the 'geek culture' something it could hold on to.

 

[Gatx]

The indie scene, eh? Well, uh... I like that it exists.

The retro thing is getting pretty old. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

It's because they're cheaper to make right? I mean indie dev teams are probably in the single digits so it makes sense that they'd work in a simplistic graphical style.

 

[Zhukov]

The indie scene, eh? Well, uh... I like that it exists.

The retro thing is getting pretty old. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

It's because they're cheaper to make right? I mean indie dev teams are probably in the single digits so it makes sense that they'd work in a simplistic graphical style.

That's certainly part of it, yeah.

Although surely there are other low-cost graphical styles that one can use.

Hell, I'd be happy to just see some actual nice pixel graphics. Pixel-y graphics can look awesome if the time is taken to animate them.

 

[Yopaz]

The indie scene, eh? Well, uh... I like that it exists.

The retro thing is getting pretty old though. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

Also, kinda over the many, many many attempts at "ironic" humour. Turns out a lot of folks aren't half as funny as they think they are.

Guess you just have to take the good with the bad. Y'know, like with the mainstream industry.

Yeah, I agree with this. I love that indie developers have the opportunity to make games and express creativity, but the millionth platformer that resembles either Mario, Super Meat Boy or Braid doesn't really strike me as that creative. Even Braid doesn't really strike me as creative.

 

[tilmoph]

It's alright, but yeah, the platformers are being overdone. On the other hand, the return of the rouglikes is entertaining me, and some of the rpg ones seem to contain enough well-done ideas to keep me interested. On the other hand, do we mean literal indie, like no publisher at all, straight release from the devs, or are we including small publisher releases?

 

[josemlopes]

The only thing that bothers me is that most indie games only need to be functional for everyone to start to praise it.
There are some good indie games but most of them arent really that special but apparently if its a game that shows any resemblence of fun then it deserves top score, I had a lot more fun in Newgrounds then a lot of said indie games.

How did "Thomas was Alone" get so much praise? Its basicly "start a level, narrator says something, finish puzzle, repeat" and the biggest problem here is that its just that, its a basic puzzle game that has a narrator telling a story even though there is nothing much to it other then to exist there, the game could be exactly the same without it. Its like going to play Sudoku and invent a story for all the numbers, its the exact same game but with a "story" behind it.


An example of a good game is Tiny And Big: Grandpa's Leftovers, now thats a cool game (even though short)

 

[viranimus]

Yep, see these are many of the reasons for the disconcerting feeling with indies right now. There are too many platformers trying to carve out their own little niche, some of which are admittedly good like Waking Mars, Capsized, Snapshot, etc. But between iOS, Android, Steam, Desura, then the various "indie bundles" its like we went from absolute drought to deluge in just a few years. Much the same way there are too many platformers, how many isometric rpg/shooter-ish click fests, or seizure inducing bullet hell games do we really need? It even goes beyond the retro as well because there are tons of RTS's, and even psudeo FP/TP Shooters especially on mobile platforms, not to mention the cesspool of mobile MMOs.

But even when you find an indie that tries to do something, with relatively modern esthetics/mechanics all too often it results in something so unusual and for such a small niche you have to wonder who is this really for? For example the cargo ship sim I mentioned before or say the likes of Dear Esther or Orbitron: Revolution

So It is a little concerning because Indie offerings have been having positive effects by doing things like forcing triple A to take notice and consider changing the way that they do things. The problem is we know how the AAAs will respond. They see something making money and they will try to replicate what it does so they can too. But if there is an overwhelming flood of even moderately successful indies that more often than not are simply retreading covered ground anyway. Isnt that just going to send that same message home for the triple A's to emulate, and really not accomplishing what we need indies to do which is show AAAs they can take risks and try new things without fear of failure, Instead it will just reinforce the already conditioned bad behavior of rewarding bottom feeding on rubber room safe things, just a little less pricey to create repetitive things.

Nothing is without room for improvement. I think one major thing indies need to do is start networking these various tiny teams and try to consolidate them, or build an extensive network so that what is being developed is not only a little more refined, but the ability to draw from larger pools of talent would allow for more ambitious and complex development. Working together and specialization are two of humanities greatest tools and I have to wonder how much of this over saturation and repetitiveness is directly attributable to too many people essentially trying to do everything instead of focusing on the parts of which they excel. Sadly that effect goes all the way to top as even Peter Molyneaux is guilty of this.

Hopefully something will help guide indies to consolidate and gain focus so they can produce better products and in turn be a new foundation for what the industry needs.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

The only thing that bothers me is that most indie games only need to be functional for everyone to start to praise it.
There are some good indie games but most of them arent really that special but apparently if its a game that shows any resemblence of fun then it deserves top score, I had a lot more fun in Newgrounds then a lot of said indie games.

How did "Thomas was Alone" get so much praise? Its basicly "start a level, narrator says something, finish puzzle, repeat" and the biggest problem here is that its just that, its a basic puzzle game that has a narrator telling a story even though there is nothing much to it other then to exist there, the game could be exactly the same without it. Its like going to play Sudoku and invent a story for all the numbers, its the exact same game but with a "story" behind it.


An example of a good game is Tiny And Big: Grandpa's Leftovers, now thats a cool game (even though short)

Some good points, but there is an old saying in theatre. "Sure you can do Hamlet on a black stage with some drapes, but why not build Elsinore?" Thomas was alone was not the kind of gameplay I am usually fond of. But after seeing the trailer and playing the demo,the narration and music really clicked with me. I found the extra context engaged me with the game and it's 2 dimensional characters (literal and figurative)Basically I liked it for the reasons you didn't. which is kinda cool in this day and age.

 

[TrevHead]

I'm not the type to get angry because there are lots of games of the same genre on the market, since there are plenty of ppl who just play one or two types of games like FPS, Platformers & Shmups and consume many of them over the years.

What is important to me is that the cream of the crop is separated from the soulless copy cats. And for that to happen it needs a digital store with good game curation, otherwise we get stores like XBLindiegames on the 360. Steam used to be such a thing since by and large good games were allowed on the store even if they only sold a handful of copies to a small niche. All that changed with Greenlight, since Valve introduced that Indie games on PC have become more like AAA, soulless games, with gimmicks and other features that might look great on face value on the Greenlight page but fall down flat to deeper scrutiny. Meanwhile the type of games that the hardcore niche are used to getting (ie rocksolid & traditional gameplay) are stuck in limbo because they don't appeal to an wider audience .... sigh just another facet of how AAA indies on Steam have become. I'm surprised Jim Sterling and other industry haters aren't tearing Valve a new one.

My views on the 8bit 2D retro artstyle is that it's over done to be sure but considering many of these games are made by one or two devs I don't mind it, just aslong as it's tastefully done. That Face Puncher 8bit brawler is the type of 2D 8bit art we could see less of though as it's bad in every way.

I do wish more devs would go for true 16bit and better artwork though, but only if the gameplay is rocksolid.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I pretty much think the majority of Indie games are shit. They are the kind of games we'd call shit even back in the SNES era, yet they get a free pass for being "emotional" and "artsy"

The only Indie games I've ever genuinely enjoyed are FTL, Super Meat Boy and Nitronic Rush, oh and Katawa Shoujo.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I pretty much think the majority of Indie games are shit. They are the kind of games we'd call shit even back in the SNES era, yet they get a free pass for being "emotional" and "artsy"

The only Indie games I've ever genuinely enjoyed are FTL, Super Meat Boy and Nitronic Rush, oh and Katawa Shoujo.

Kinda this, while I don't find the indie games I have played to be out right bad, they are more reminiscent of bits of games rather than full experiences. I feel the indie scene should be seen as a proving ground for developers who don't need to start at a big studio, and could go on to larger more well funded projects. It's good to see the big three supporting them, but I'm not really interested in indie games in the first place.

 

[Windcaler]

I personally really like indie games. Some of my favorite games last and this year are indie games, in fact my top 3 of last year were all indies and it might happen this year too. I actually think we need more means to look at indie games and get their names out there. The Greenlight process on Steam has been shown to be idiotic at best and potentially corrupt at worst and beyond that I tend to only notice indie games if theres word of mouth about them. For example totalbiscuit is a commentator I watch often and he does first impressions on indie games occasionally which always compel me to take a look at them. Ive also recently begun watching indie statik on youtube which is nothing but indie games and their website also gives some great info about the variety of games out there. Beyond that I tend to only hear about indie games through friends/family or with various threads on some of the forums I frequent.

I think that there are instances of indie devs taking the piss with regard to pricing (looking at you Planetary Annihilation), but that's an exception rather than a trend, and frankly, most indie devs aren't expecting me to provide $60 for the game, $30 for DLC, access to my computer for DRM, and my advertising profile to sell.

If youre refering to the playable bit of PA being $90 then theres actually a good reason for that. Its because the kickstarter backers who paid $90 or more got a playble version when it was ready. The team wanted to put it on a service when there was interest in this playble version (when they had it mind you) and they had to decide if they had to make it cheaper and potentially alienate backers or sell it for the same price. They chose the latter and IMO it was the fairest choice, you pay the same $90 that backers did and get the same thing they did

 

[shadow_Fox81]

Its great that its there but it irritates me its the same game culture i get every where, same as mainstream just on a smaller scale.

Too much zombie,fantasy and sci-fi, too many rpg's, shooters, puzzlers and whatever retro game is in vogue this week.

I want more games like Cart Life, Dinner date, Dear Esther and Proteus that actually try bring new experiences into games.

Indie devs get too much a free ride because they keep spitting out the same bullshit that the mainstream does and fans rub it into their pores greedily.

But more importantly fuck point and click adventures, any new idea seems to be hamstrung by the notion creating new engaging mechanics is too difficult so we'll make it a point an click title.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I think that there are instances of indie devs taking the piss with regard to pricing (looking at you Planetary Annihilation), but that's an exception rather than a trend, and frankly, most indie devs aren't expecting me to provide $60 for the game, $30 for DLC, access to my computer for DRM, and my advertising profile to sell.

If youre refering to the playable bit of PA being $90 then theres actually a good reason for that. Its because the kickstarter backers who paid $90 or more got a playble version when it was ready. The team wanted to put it on a service when there was interest in this playble version (when they had it mind you) and they had to decide if they had to make it cheaper and potentially alienate backers or sell it for the same price. They chose the latter and IMO it was the fairest choice, you pay the same $90 that backers did and get the same thing they did

That would only really be "fair" if they somehow kept it at $90 after the final release. The whole point of kickstarter is that it's a way to raise funds for something, to get some seed money for a new project without needing to go the old venture capital route. It's kind of expected that eventually people are going to be able to get the final product at a different price than the initial backers did, since the initial backers were directly paying for the development, not just for the product itself. These guys are basically taking $90 of pure profit on every sale through Steam, since they were presumably already funded through kickstarter.

As far as indie games go, most of my favorite modern games are indies, but very few of them are either the art-games (which I despise) or the pixellated platformers (which, aside from VVVVVV, which is still my GOTY for 2010, I have yet to play one which is actually as good as the best of the old ones). Like anything else, you have to dig, and if you're gonna listen to word of mouth, you have to know which mouths to listen to. Because way too many of them seem to be wearing berets fedoras.

 

[Windcaler]

That would only really be "fair" if they somehow kept it at $90 after the final release. The whole point of kickstarter is that it's a way to raise funds for something, to get some seed money for a new project without needing to go the old venture capital route. It's kind of expected that eventually people are going to be able to get the final product at a different price than the initial backers did, since the initial backers were directly paying for the development, not just for the product itself. These guys are basically taking $90 of pure profit on every sale through Steam, since they were presumably already funded through kickstarter.

No. Last I checked the game was not fully released. What that $90 pays for is essentially the same early access that backers who paid $90+ during the kickstarter. The money goes into further development of the game till its completed. Essentially people that pay for early access are paying for the same thing that backers did during the kickstarter even though the kickstarter is over.

If the game was fully released and out then yeah you would have a point but so far as Im aware thats not the case. If that is the case then please post some form of evidence stating such

 

[Sangnz]

The indie scene, eh? Well, uh... I like that it exists.

The retro thing is getting pretty old though. "Oh look, another fucking pixel-y platformer. Well colour me overjoyed! Way to push those boundaries with your indie freedom guys!"

Also, kinda over the many, many many attempts at "ironic" humour. Turns out a lot of folks aren't half as funny as they think they are.

Guess you just have to take the good with the bad. Y'know, like with the mainstream industry.

While I agree that there are maybe a few too many pixel based side scrollers there is a lot more to the indie scene if you give it a look.
Some examples

Warframe
Defence Grid
Sanctum
Reus
Orcs Must Die
Anomaly 2
World of Goo
Strike Suit Zero