(STEAM) Am I the only one?

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Solo-Wing

Wanna have a bad time?
Dec 15, 2010
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Z of the Na said:
[sub]I always thought the TOS was that long, boring, wall of text that everybody immediately scrolled to the bottom of to click "Agree."[/sub]
I want to bring up the Human Cent-iPad episode from South Park here... >w>

I personally believe we should boycott them. Just no more purchasing games. Whenever people want to sway the opinion of a large company they should go for the place it hurts most. The wallet.
 

Phlakes

Elite Member
Mar 25, 2010
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This is literally every ToS ever. The only difference is someone along the way decided to make a big deal out of it (maybe not even intentionally) and then everyone blew it way out of proportion for some reason.

Seriously, not a single one of you would care about this if it didn't show up on Reddit or whatever. And not in a public-empowering awareness way, in a "corpurations r evul" way.

Now I think this is a little appropriate-

 

Pink Gregory

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Jul 30, 2008
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Solo-Wing said:
Z of the Na said:
[sub]I always thought the TOS was that long, boring, wall of text that everybody immediately scrolled to the bottom of to click "Agree."[/sub]
I want to bring up the Human Cent-iPad episode from South Park here... >w>

I personally believe we should boycott them. Just no more purchasing games. Whenever people want to sway the opinion of a large company they should go for the place it hurts most. The wallet.
Valve, or indeed any large corporation, aren't going to radically change their business model due to a boycott, even a large, organised one.

The problem isn't with ONLY Steam at all, although being the market leader in digital game distribution, they have a large part.

The problem is still DRM simply not being effective against what it's supposed to prevent, the unfortunate truth is that piracy cannot be prevented, there's always going to be a minority of entitled little fucks who believe that they shouldn't have to pay for anything, ever; Valve's (or anyone else's) investors and shareholders are probably not going to accept that fact, EVER, so pretty much everyone loses; either development costs need to come down so drastically so that a few sales can afford to be lost to piracy without the developer/publisher spiralling into massive debt if sales don't make over 15 million or whatever (if anyone accepts that it can't be entirely prevented), or the impossibility of preventing piracy is accepted across the board.

Of course, the larger corporations need an incentive other than money, and for a large corporation there is no incentive other than money.

TL:DR - the problem isn't just with Steam, any amount of boycotting will effect no change without massive change in the incentives of who runs the industry.
 

targren

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May 13, 2009
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Mflick said:
No offense, but thats straight up stupid, were you planning on suing steam? if not you just lost the worth of the games for nothing in return.
I'm sorry, but it's not "straight up stupid." There's a difference between "planning" to do something and keeping the option to do something, particularly when the "something" in question is the single punitive action that encourages companies to behave themselves. That's like saying it's stupid for a company to disband its army because its neighbor told them to, even though the country in question has no plans to invade.

You say I got nothing in return: you're wrong. Firstly, I was proven right about Valve and Steam[footnote]Seriously, check my posting history. I've always said that if they changed their TOS to something obnoxious, you were screwed if you don't like it. Go figure they do it right after I decide to think I might have been wrong about them.[/footnote]. That's not a lot, but it's not nothing, and it's a little depressing, too.

Furthermore, I also get to tell them "Fuck you" when they tried to further unbalance the playing field in their own favor. Part of the reason we, as consumers, constantly keep being forced to eat shit is because of attitudes like the ones saying my decision is "stupid" or "wrong." ("Not worth it," while a little sad IMO, is perfectly valid.) In order to keep their shinies, too many people are willing to just bend over when a company pulls the "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further," card to remind us of just who's boss.

Phlakes said:
This is literally every ToS ever. The only difference is someone along the way decided to make a big deal out of it (maybe not even intentionally) and then everyone blew it way out of proportion for some reason.
In this case, you're actually wrong about that. Until VERY recently, terms like this weren't often in user agreements, and if they were, they were very often shot down by the courts. What's changed is that, a few weeks ago, SCOTUS decided that this garbage was OK. So this is still a NEW development, so NOW is the time to make noise about it, before it becomes a "standard."
 

00slash00

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Dec 29, 2009
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um, last month steam sold me over 30 games and only charged me like a hundred or so dollars. i cannot justify leaving steam anytime soon
 

Ganath

New member
Jan 24, 2011
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Well, seeing has I apparently have 188 games on steam I'mma go ahead and say.

Nope, Nope, Nope, N--

OT: Not sure if that ToS thingie holds much ground in Europe. Even if it did, I've never even imagined suing anyone. I guess what I mean is, this ToS doesn't bother me one bit, neither did anything Origin pulled though.
 

chimeracreator

New member
Jun 15, 2009
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Signa said:
[
Where did you find that? This whole TOS blackmail thing has pissed me off because it's so unlike the Valve I've grown to love. However, this text you posted sounds like the Valve that I trust. I haven't been entirely up in arms about this because I figured Valve just wants to cover their ass from any punk who has a grievance, and this pretty much confirms they aren't interested in screwing over the non-punks that have a legitimate reason to be pissed.
I found it in the ToS which is exactly what people are complaining about. Section 12 is the relevant section because that's what was changed http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/.
 

Matt King

New member
Mar 15, 2010
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the thing is, imagine if ea did this, (ACCEPT THIS OR LOSE EVERYTHING) imagine the shitstorm, with steam it's kinda like meh but if it was origin there would be a fucking riot
 

Rheinmetall

New member
May 13, 2011
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Fr said:
anc[is]
Rheinmetall said:
I swear in the name of Solid Snake, the back cover of Elder Scrolls 5 didn't write anywhere that this game is on Steam.
I'm looking at my copy right now and it's got a red box right above the system requirements. Does yours not have that? Not calling you out or trying to be an ass, just curious.
Ah... that one! Yes I saw it too. Strange, usually the colour that is used for Steam related notices is grey, or white fonts in grey background. Also it's the first time that I saw a game to bring the "Games Foe Windows" sign and at the same time to hooked on Steam. But that's not an excuse, I was an idiot and I should be more careful next time.
 

GAunderrated

New member
Jul 9, 2012
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GZGoten said:
how many companies have you sued?
...
...
why should anyone care, just accept it its not the end of the world because you can't sue a company :/
You can still sue steam, you just can't do it on behalf of all the gamers under a class action. I've been apart of 2 class action suites (one against apple, other EA's madden) and both times I got maybe 5 bucks from both of them. I wouldn't really call that true compensation for the problem's they were listing. It seemed like the lawyers got the real compensation so i'm not really that worried about no class action.

If steam did something illegal I can still sue them in small claims. I'm willing to bet the people making the biggest deal over this TOS for steam have probably never even participated in a class action suite and is just joining the bangwagon of the week. Of course this is just my assumption.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
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targren said:
Adam Jensen said:
What you did was stupid and you didn't think it through. Do you plan on suing Valve anytime soon?
No, but I also don't plan on giving them free reign to adopt even MORE abusive terms and being left with no recourse for it. All this pap about "Class action lawsuits only benefit the lawyers" misses one important point. They're not supposed to profit the victims, they're supposed to *punish badly behaving businesses.* Valve's new TOS basically tells me that they don't want the Sword of Damocles hanging over their head making them act properly.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.

EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.
 

Naeras

New member
Mar 1, 2011
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This thing doesn't hold up by the laws in my country, so I could safely accept the ToS.
 

Thaedius

New member
Oct 25, 2011
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canadamus_prime said:
targren said:
Adam Jensen said:
What you did was stupid and you didn't think it through. Do you plan on suing Valve anytime soon?
No, but I also don't plan on giving them free reign to adopt even MORE abusive terms and being left with no recourse for it. All this pap about "Class action lawsuits only benefit the lawyers" misses one important point. They're not supposed to profit the victims, they're supposed to *punish badly behaving businesses.* Valve's new TOS basically tells me that they don't want the Sword of Damocles hanging over their head making them act properly.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.

EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.

You sir, are not the only one
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
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Thaedius said:
canadamus_prime said:
targren said:
Adam Jensen said:
What you did was stupid and you didn't think it through. Do you plan on suing Valve anytime soon?
No, but I also don't plan on giving them free reign to adopt even MORE abusive terms and being left with no recourse for it. All this pap about "Class action lawsuits only benefit the lawyers" misses one important point. They're not supposed to profit the victims, they're supposed to *punish badly behaving businesses.* Valve's new TOS basically tells me that they don't want the Sword of Damocles hanging over their head making them act properly.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.

EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.

You sir, are not the only one
On which part; the part about frivolous lawsuits, lawsuits being the worst thing humanity ever created, or lawyers being dumped into a volcano? ...or all of the above?
 

zumbledum

New member
Nov 13, 2011
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i could understand it if you had a problem and wanted to sue, and i could understand ceasing to buy new stuff if you think it might possibly bother you.

but to just go cancel because theoretically at some point in the future you possibly might want to sue... well sir it smacks of full auto retard to me ;)

Besides i live in England so nothing changed for us, it really was just a bit of protection in the states as they are a bit litigation heavy over there.
 

Thaedius

New member
Oct 25, 2011
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canadamus_prime said:
Thaedius said:
canadamus_prime said:
targren said:
Adam Jensen said:
What you did was stupid and you didn't think it through. Do you plan on suing Valve anytime soon?
No, but I also don't plan on giving them free reign to adopt even MORE abusive terms and being left with no recourse for it. All this pap about "Class action lawsuits only benefit the lawyers" misses one important point. They're not supposed to profit the victims, they're supposed to *punish badly behaving businesses.* Valve's new TOS basically tells me that they don't want the Sword of Damocles hanging over their head making them act properly.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.

EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.

You sir, are not the only one
On which part; the part about frivolous lawsuits, lawsuits being the worst thing humanity ever created, or lawyers being dumped into a volcano? ...or all of the above?
Well mainly the first, but doing the second would make sure ;)
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
0
0
Thaedius said:
canadamus_prime said:
Thaedius said:
canadamus_prime said:
targren said:
Adam Jensen said:
What you did was stupid and you didn't think it through. Do you plan on suing Valve anytime soon?
No, but I also don't plan on giving them free reign to adopt even MORE abusive terms and being left with no recourse for it. All this pap about "Class action lawsuits only benefit the lawyers" misses one important point. They're not supposed to profit the victims, they're supposed to *punish badly behaving businesses.* Valve's new TOS basically tells me that they don't want the Sword of Damocles hanging over their head making them act properly.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.

EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.

You sir, are not the only one
On which part; the part about frivolous lawsuits, lawsuits being the worst thing humanity ever created, or lawyers being dumped into a volcano? ...or all of the above?
Well mainly the first, but doing the second would make sure ;)
There were actually 3 options, but I'll revel in the gratification anyway.
 

tsb247

New member
Mar 6, 2009
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I didn't cancel my account, but I am giong to be far more judicious with my Steam purchases. I am going to scour the internet and/or retail stores for any hard copies that my be produced before I go to Steam.

I'm hoping ArmA III will be released in DVD format so I can snag it without the nonsense of Steam.

That, or I'll stick to Stardock whenever possible. :)