Steam and its DRM

[Zechnophobe]

its not that you don't like steam, lots of people don't like steam. Its that you don't like steam DRM. Don't try to simplify what i'm trying to say in order to try to move people to your side next time.

Oh I see... well not really.

Well I do not use Steams other features... to me Steam = DRM, there is no difference.

To clarify, I'm fine with DRM, I realise developers have a right to protect their properties and deserve to be paid for what they do.

I simply do not like Steam.

So after reading this entire thread it appears that your disslike of Steam comes from:

1) the loading screen that pops up when you open a game from your library.

2) ???

Am I missing something here? You asked if steam games require Steam (DRM) but have no problem with DRM. You don't like the offline mode because you live in a constant blizzard (or something).

I can understand it being jarring to go from nothing to Steam. At first it seems like an extra step for little value. But it seems that whenever I investigate someone's reasons for ABSOLUTELY NOT wanting to use steam, they always end up weirdly. Like a kid who can't swim being afraid of the water. Yes it is deep and you could drown in it, but man, when you learn to swim it's really a lot of fun!

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

If by "Capsule" you mean "Green Man Gaming", then nope, that's not DRM free.

Also, my masterwork of the New Vegas Nexus Forums, How To Install Steamworks Games From The Disc (Without having to download a silly amount of stuff) [http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/248306-how-to-install-steamworks-games-from-the-retail-disc/] will help you the next time you install Steamworks games from the disc (although why the hell some people have Steam automatically download any game it feeds while others e.g. me has it install from the disc as intended is beyond me. I suspect it's more likely something at your end or something, or a dodgy ClientRegistry.blob, or something).

I'm fairly sure it is. I installed a game called DefCon through Capsule and I double checked by Alt-tabbing mid-game just to check. No noticeable DRM is running while I play it.
It even ran while my internet was out.

Also I'll check that guide out if I ever have another disc based game that requires Steam (Napoleon: Total War and Shogun 2 seem likely).

 

[Zanaxal]

Making me download 6 gigs every patch for COH, Empire Total War. No thanks, never again.

Also having to edit game files just to get the damn patches to work.

My singleplayer adventure indie game for 10$ really needs to check with the net on every launch! ya right. i'm only buying stuff off impulse. Cheaper most of the time.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I realise that, but I do mean any online game. I often play non-Steam games, and more often than that I'm playing an online Xbox 360 game while my PC is running.

But thanks for the help anyway!

Somewhat understandable. But also realize that on the flip side, the automatic update means that often times updates will get pulled for you, and be ready without you having to waste time on them. I have occasionally told steam to pause an update while I was, say, streaming a video off net flix. The extra work there is balanced by the oft times when I get home from work and a game has already been updated with the latest patch or whatever.

Oh, and did you know you can often pre-load games? ME2 coming out next week? I'll download it all now, so when it unlocks i can 'instantly' play it.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

So after reading this entire thread it appears that your disslike of Steam comes from:

1) the loading screen that pops up when you open a game from your library.

2) ???

Am I missing something here? You asked if steam games require Steam (DRM) but have no problem with DRM. You don't like the offline mode because you live in a constant blizzard (or something).

I can understand it being jarring to go from nothing to Steam. At first it seems like an extra step for little value. But it seems that whenever I investigate someone's reasons for ABSOLUTELY NOT wanting to use steam, they always end up weirdly. Like a kid who can't swim being afraid of the water. Yes it is deep and you could drown in it, but man, when you learn to swim it's really a lot of fun!

My reasons don't all have to be technologically based and founded.

Psychological reasons too, I prefer the way GFWL boots up with my game, the GFWL client starts up after my game has started and to me that seems more time effective and I like the little bleep. The way Steam starts up doesn't appeal to me. Yes it's a stupid reason but hey, I'm all about the stupid reasons.

I dislike the fact that it restricts my play offline, I tried again last night when my internet was out and it resumed it's updating screen indefinitely.

What does it matter to you if I dislike Steam?

Please don't preach to be about the benefits of it, as I've stated I prefer GFWL and love using it, but I wouldn't try and push its use on others because it's their perogative which distribution platform they use.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Somewhat understandable. But also realize that on the flip side, the automatic update means that often times updates will get pulled for you, and be ready without you having to waste time on them. I have occasionally told steam to pause an update while I was, say, streaming a video off net flix. The extra work there is balanced by the oft times when I get home from work and a game has already been updated with the latest patch or whatever.

Oh, and did you know you can often pre-load games? ME2 coming out next week? I'll download it all now, so when it unlocks i can 'instantly' play it.

Yes I was aware of that but I'm a nostalgic man, I love the whole experience of trekking to the nearest game shop, buying a nice big case with a shiny disc inside and then subsequently nearly getting run over as I read the manual on the trek back.

Also my service provider hates me enough for abusing my unlimited downloads without me downloading 9GB games every now and then.

 

[Zechnophobe]

So after reading this entire thread it appears that your disslike of Steam comes from:

1) the loading screen that pops up when you open a game from your library.

2) ???

Am I missing something here? You asked if steam games require Steam (DRM) but have no problem with DRM. You don't like the offline mode because you live in a constant blizzard (or something).

I can understand it being jarring to go from nothing to Steam. At first it seems like an extra step for little value. But it seems that whenever I investigate someone's reasons for ABSOLUTELY NOT wanting to use steam, they always end up weirdly. Like a kid who can't swim being afraid of the water. Yes it is deep and you could drown in it, but man, when you learn to swim it's really a lot of fun!

My reasons don't all have to be technologically based and founded.

Psychological reasons too, I prefer the way GFWL boots up with my game, the GFWL client starts up after my game has started and to me that seems more time effective and I like the little bleep. The way Steam starts up doesn't appeal to me. Yes it's a stupid reason but hey, I'm all about the stupid reasons.

I dislike the fact that it restricts my play offline, I tried again last night when my internet was out and it resumed it's updating screen indefinitely.

Ah, well whatever. Just realize the decision you are making then. I keep steam running at all time and don't turn my computer (gaming laptop) off all that often.

What does it matter to you if I dislike Steam?

Please don't preach to be about the benefits of it, as I've stated I prefer GFWL and love using it, but I wouldn't try and push its use on others because it's their perogative which distribution platform they use.

Er, is this a response to me? I'm not sure how you went from a good natured discussion of gaming platforms to "Don't preach to me". Just having an opinion isn't the same as preaching right? Chillax man, and seriously, don't be conceited enough to think I somehow care what gaming platform YOU use.

 

[Delusibeta]

If by "Capsule" you mean "Green Man Gaming", then nope, that's not DRM free.

I'm fairly sure it is. I installed a game called DefCon through Capsule and I double checked by Alt-tabbing mid-game just to check. No noticeable DRM is running while I play it.
It even ran while my internet was out.

Nah. SecuROM. Activation every 3 days. Not DRM free. Or at least it was at their launch, dunno if that stands today.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Er, is this a response to me? I'm not sure how you went from a good natured discussion of gaming platforms to "Don't preach to me". Just having an opinion isn't the same as preaching right? Chillax man, and seriously, don't be conceited enough to think I somehow care what gaming platform YOU use.

I deal with too many fanboys daily... also it's late and I should be drunk by now.

The last bit of your post got a bit preachy when you were saying about pushing people for reasons why they dislike Steam and the reasons turn up unfounded.

Apologies for saying you were preaching.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Somewhat understandable. But also realize that on the flip side, the automatic update means that often times updates will get pulled for you, and be ready without you having to waste time on them. I have occasionally told steam to pause an update while I was, say, streaming a video off net flix. The extra work there is balanced by the oft times when I get home from work and a game has already been updated with the latest patch or whatever.

Oh, and did you know you can often pre-load games? ME2 coming out next week? I'll download it all now, so when it unlocks i can 'instantly' play it.

Yes I was aware of that but I'm a nostalgic man, I love the whole experience of trekking to the nearest game shop, buying a nice big case with a shiny disc inside and then subsequently nearly getting run over as I read the manual on the trek back.

Also my service provider hates me enough for abusing my unlimited downloads without me downloading 9GB games every now and then.

Okay, one last comment, because it is starting to get eerie how similar this conversation is whenever I have it. I have almost never had a discussion with someone about 'why they don't like steam' that didn't involve basically this: The desire to have a physical object in their hand.

Now, I don't really care that you like that, I just think it's interesting how often that is cited as a desire, and is (often) at the root of many of these desires. I wonder if it is cultural or simply a random human trait? I want to do tests on people who feel this way, and see what happens.

Alas, that would probably be illegal.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Nah. SecuROM. Activation every 3 days. Not DRM free.

Wasn't aware of that, I'll see how DefCon is in a few days.

 

[Delusibeta]

The desire to have a physical object in their hand.

There's a Backup Manager for that. Sure, it's not quite the same as the real thing, but a disc printer and some photo editing and you should be OK.

And if you decide to apply that argument to GOG, you will find that your argument is invalid there. [http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/unofficial_dvd_covers_list]

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Okay, one last comment, because it is starting to get eerie how similar this conversation is whenever I have it. I have almost never had a discussion with someone about 'why they don't like steam' that didn't involve basically this: The desire to have a physical object in their hand.

Now, I don't really care that you like that, I just think it's interesting how often that is cited as a desire, and is (often) at the root of many of these desires. I wonder if it is cultural or simply a random human trait? I want to do tests on people who feel this way, and see what happens.

Alas, that would probably be illegal.

I'd say it's a combination of 'force of habit' and just a random preference.

It's a bit tricky to explain... so I'll skirt around it.

A box is almost like a visual display, like a memento, same sort of reason I buy collectors editions, I like the random stuff that I can perch all over my shelves.

I'm sure you could run a study, as long as it didn't involve too much prodding.

 

[Irridium]

This thread makes me laugh.

God forbid someone doesn't want to deal with Steam. If someone doesn't want anything to do with a program, and is forced to use that program, that is bad. It doesn't matter how good the program is, its still forcing someone to do something they don't want to do.

I've been using Steam for 6 years. I'm well aware of its flaws and I completely understand why people don't want to use it. It has issues. Manny issues. It also has benefits. Many benefits. Its a trade off really. And your not "strange" or "stupid" for not wanting to deal with Steam. It may be the best form of DRM, but its still DRM.

 

[w00tage]

What's your problem with Steam?

I thought I'd come back to this. The list is long and the reasons are many but I'll pull up a recent event as an example.

About 3 weeks ago I finally upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7. So of course I had to wipe my hard drive, only saving a few GB of personal files on an external hard drive.

I decided to give Steam another chance, the internet loves it, it has a bunch of deals I could take advantage of, and my Steam friends list of people I actually speak to grew from 3 to 5.

So I downloaded Steam, installed it all, logged in and got ready for Dawn of War 2 and Empire: Total War.

Don't screw this up Steam, and all is forgotten.

5 minutes into Dawn of War 2 installation, 'The Steam servers are too busy to handle your request right now. Try again later'.

So my disc based copy of Dawn of War 2 can't install because your servers are on the fritz? Oh joy...

Then again with Empire: Total War. Clicked install, a few seconds later. 'Downloading Empire: Total War'. Wait why? Why are you downloading 4GB worth of stuff when the disc is in the tray?

Steam and me obviously do not get along, I'd much prefer to use other platforms or just have my copy run from disc.

Exactly! If you buy a game on disc the game should be on the disc and not on a server i the middle of nowhere. Why can't people buy one of these ridiculous "Steam only" games on disc and not have to suffer Steam? valve will still get money but steam should be purely optional and for those with good internet connections. Steam is annoying gamers with no or bad connections.

Too late now, but you should know - Steam makes your games effectively portable. You can back up all of your games by backing up your entire Steam directory on an external drive, do your format/reinstall/upgrade, reinstall Steam, and copy the saved Steam directory back over the Steam installation.

And Everything Works (save for the game I once had to do a "check local files for errors" on - it redownloaded 1 file and was good to go).

DRM issues aside, that fact that Steam makes your games portable is the reason I use it. I just took my Steam games drive out of my higher-end gaming computer, put it in a USB 3.0 external drive, and packed it along with my gaming-capable laptop so I could play while visiting my family. When I get back, I'll put it back into the gaming machine and neither machine will have the slightest problem with these actions

 

[Vault101]

Yes, but you can play them in offline mode(whatever reason you would need to do that)

because some of us don't live in a magical kingdom where internet is everywhere and not limited

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

I always save up 40-50 bucks on christmas for steam, usually end up with like 4-5 games I never would have gotten otherwise, Recent examples are: Mass Effect 1, both Bioshock games, ALL the company of heroes and Stalker games, and not i'm gonna get Operation Flashpoint for 3 bucks!!! I freaking love steam.

 

[LoganN]

ITT: Valve fans having someing on the side of their mouth.

 

[Kouen]

Aint nothing wrong with steam, its at least one of teh better if not best drm out there in teh fact its the least intrusive imo

 

[Continuity]

Honestly, I'd much rather have Steam's DRM then other forms of DRM which come with retail copies of games (like SecuROM, for example).

You know some steam games do have 3rd party DRM, which pisses me off tbh