Steam Greenlight Repels Trolls With New $100 Fee

[Something Amyss]

I don't like it but I understand it. I doubt anyone really expected the amount of random shit that flooded into it. But looking back we all should have.

I don't know why it seems like nobody called this. People were calling this sort of shit before it happened.

 

[The Lunatic]

Uhm, guys, Well-made Flash games take a few months to make, you know what minimum wage is?

Well, half it, and that's basically what these guys are living on, assuming no other income.

$100 is still pretty good for the chance to put your game in the lime (Or if you prefer, green) light.

Games like Lone Survivor didn't cost a couple of hundred to make, they cost several thousand.


Personally, I find flash games trying to be "Deep" come across as pretentious more often than not.

 

[Slayer_2]

That's a massive generalization. I am willing to bet you a considerable amount that the guys behind Limbo put more thought and effort into that story (and it is one of the deeper stories told in video games, period) than many 3D games.

Really, how many 2D and 3D games have you worked on? All the 2D games I've worked on have been one man operations, requiring a few months of casual work plugging away at Java and MS Paint (laughable, I know). All the 3D games have been multi-man operations that involve a dedicated programmer, several artists, a dedicated audio guy, a few level designers. The total man-hours involved in the development of a standard 3D game dwarfs most 2D games. Why do you think so many indie games are flash 2D games? Because they only need one person to be created, where as a 3D game made by one person is probably gonna either suck or take 5 years to make, plus the person needs to be a jack of all trades.

Which type of game you prefer for immersion and story is entirely opinion-based, but 3D games usually taking longer to make is a fact, and I have more respect for a game if more work was put towards making it. And again, I'd like to state that 2D games aren't bad they have their place in the casual market, and they can be fun to pass time at an airport or whatever, but I prefer 3D games for depth and immersion, that's just my personal preference.

 

[Slayer_2]

Time spent =/= quality of the gameplay or story.

That's ridiculous. Sure just because tens of people spend thousands of hours working on a game doesn't mean the gameplay or story will be good, but it makes it far more likely. There is a concrete correlation between time spent and quality of work produced.

LIMBO: best story telling in gaming ever. It deals with how we perceive death, peer pressure, bullying, isolation, loneliness, loss, fear, growing up and the afterlife. More intelligent metaphor than most people even imagine. One of the few games to ever make dream sequences or "dying visions" work. 2D.

And that is another opinion, not fact. I'm trying to avoid opinions, since they cannot be proven right or wrong.

Fans of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat say hello.

Back when those games were huge, 3D games weren't very good, and in the early days, nonexistent.

 

[Slayer_2]

Back when those games were huge, 3D games weren't very good, and in the early days, nonexistent.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/57360/street-fighter-4-ships-over

You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about

Neither do you, or you just ignore basic math: http://www.vgchartz.com/game/44606/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/13112/street-fighter-iv/

In sales, it's been outclassed by over 7 times, on the Xbox alone, the total is around 29 million for all platforms. 2 mil units isn't shabby, but it's not close to amazing.

 

[Jumplion]

Time spent =/= quality of the gameplay or story.

That's ridiculous. Sure just because tens of people spend thousands of hours working on a game doesn't mean the gameplay or story will be good, but it makes it far more likely. There is a concrete correlation between time spent and quality of work produced.

I would pull out Duke Nukem Forever, but that's obvious.

Good managment, consistent deadlines, skilled workers, efficient means of creation, all of this has way more effect on the end product than the length of time that they happen to be working on the game.

 

[Slayer_2]

I would pull out Duke Nukem Forever, but that's obvious.

Good managment, consistent deadlines, skilled workers, efficient means of creation, all of this has way more effect on the end product than the length of time that they happen to be working on the game.

I didn't say all, and that's what you get trying to revive an old classic while using several different teams and over a decade...

It's not hard to manage one person. Most flash games don't have a team. Managing a team on the internet is hell. That is why lots of games are 2D flash games. Easier to make, far less man hours, no need to have a team, although you certainly can. I can't blame them, I often wish I could work alone, but I lack the skill and time.

No, that doesn't cut it. That is a bullshit cop out.

Stop crying when you get your ass handed to you trying to equate sale figures with hardcore-ness. I'm not the one who started that.

In order to be taken seriously you have to explain to me how a double-platinum selling game of exceptional polish based on a complex system of movement and attack combinations within a 2D plane requiring extensive practice, tremendous skill and impeccable timing in order to compete effectively during play that is designed around the concept of tournaments, which are held all the time so that the relatively small but extremely invested group of fans can exhibit their vast technical proficiency by testing their skills against one another is a game only for casuals that you play while waiting in an airport. Explain that bit of monumental ignorance to me in a way that makes sense.

When did I say all 2D games are for casuals? Never, stop putting words in my mouth. I said, and let me quote myself, since you can't seem to remember, or scroll up half a page:

I'd like to state that 2D games aren't bad they have their place in the casual market

Let me break it down really nice for you. By this I meant that the 2D market is mostly dominated by casual games. It's absolutely saturated, where as "hardcore" 2D games are a tiny, tiny minority. Whether you go by sales, players, time spent, I'm sure you'd find the casual outweighing hardcore by several times, at least, if not tenfold. 2D games are usually easier to learn, have lighter requirements, and shorter development times. Oh, and guess what, a decent chunk of people who bought Street Fighter 4 were probably casuals too.

While we're this far off topic, I want to bring up a peeve of mine: I don't understand what the hatred of casuals is all about, just because a person hasn't been invested in gaming for decades, and tens of thousands of hours of play means they deserve less respect? How accepting of you getting all offended because someone points out that most 2D games are played by casuals.

And even if you ignore all that - if popularity is your only measure of 'hardcore' then Angry Birds is extremely hardcore, and you're full of shit anyway by your own argument.

Again, you must have short-term memory loss, since I'm not the one who started the "sales figures = skill requirement". That was all you, bud.

 

[Ardure]

I could see this solving the problem... and I am happy to see steam giving the fees away to a good cause. It would not be good for them if they took it as profit. To be honest 100 is steep for a prank but most indie devs should have enough to be able to pay it and if the game gets picked up then getting that 100 back is really fast.

In an ideal world this would not have to happen... but sadly the world is far from ideal.