Steam vs PC?

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L-J-F

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Jun 22, 2008
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Steam for sure, downsides are:

* You are helping them take over the entire world.
* You can't re-sell games.
* Unless you have unlimited downloads or can somehow get unmetered usage (XD) you're probably stuffed (I downloaded 40gb of games in the last 10 or so days, DIRT2 is 10.6gb).

Apart from those however, it's great, I'd say Steam.
 

Dys

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Sep 10, 2008
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Ururu117 said:
Dys said:
General responce to a bunch of the people who've quotes my "I don't like steam and here's why" post. It's very long, so sorry.

Ururu117 said:
Dys said:
Steam downloads force updates in such a way so as to make games unplayable while they are being downloaded, tends to break if your offline and links games to a single account, meaning that if the account is lost your games are lost.

Boxed games on the PC are much like boxed games on the PS3, you got a game disc, put it in your computer, install and play.

As you can clearly see, I was absent when god decided to make everyone a steam fanboy. It is a shit system and I wouldn't reccommend it to anyone who didn't have a kickass internet connection (if you, like me, are Australian, this is a NO).
They are unplayable in the same way that games being updated through any other system is unplayable. You know, modifying files, etc.

They don't break if you play in offline mode, unless your computer is somehow nondeterministic in strange and interesting ways, in which case, you are quite fucked in other regards too!

And as for the account bollocks, they have so much account recovery shit put in, this is essentially impossible without a brain injury.
Actually, steam installs increments as they are downloaded, this is a retarded system as it means you cannot play the game between an update starting to download and finishing. It's particularly painful for those of us shitty Australian connections, other platforms approach updates in a far less retarded way.

The offline mode regularly decides not to work, you can't install games while offline (even if you have the cdkey) which, while you may not see an issue with it, at lan partys is a monstrous hurdle, passing around a few cds is not.

It's actually rather easy to lose a steam account, if you don't use it for a while and move jobs (thus changing email) it is nigh impossible to retreive games you've bought digitially.
How is it easy to lose a steam account? They have FIVE RECOVERY OPTIONS. Five. Email, phone, two in game ones, and one by post. I've used all five (and never even saw the post one until I was told about it), and all of them work fine. If you are losing your information, that is rather silly.

Offline mode has always worked, and I've never had a problem with it. I've installed some games offline, and others don't work, but this is usually the choice of the developer from what I've seen.

AS for the update system, it is perfectly fine, in that the patches aren't put on all at once but incrementally. It is simply a different system than you are used to, which doesn't make it any better or worse. It does lead to some interesting things, like mixed patches which invariably crash, but it is a necessary evil for some things which benefit from it.

I don't see how it is a "monstrous hurtle" for LAN parties; I host them regularly, and we just update the computers before hand. Maybe you don't have that kind of foresight, but requiring a little planning is more than worth the ability to play games anywhere I go and never worry about disks.
How can you possibly defend the update system? The incremental update system means that, if a download begins (and as such the installation begins) shortly before one exceeds their download quota, they then have a game they cannot play until their quota has been reset and the game fully updated. That's retarded, especially for singeplayer games....Like I've repetedly said, a lot of people live with parents and don't get to choose their internet plans, incremental updates can be a royal pain in the ass. The usual system of "download an update then install it" is so far superior it isn't funny, if you can't be fucked downloading them yourself there are platforms like impulse that will do it similarly to steam, but in such a way that you can still play your game between the download starting and finishing.

I had an account mated to a work email that had several games I'd redeemed with coupons, I had no link to my credit card and had lost the coupons. That account is now inaccessable, it was rather easy to do, all I did was move jobs, forget the password and throw out the coupon...If you're not using it for a year or more it really isn't hard..

I'm not even going to bother arguaing the offline mode, or that I should "better organize" myself. I'm the consumer, the system shits me. Other platforms don't force me to be better organized, in my mind that is an advantage.

I honestly can't beleive how many people have jumped to the defence of steam, I've been quoted more than 20 times in this thread. I wasn't saying that the system is completely unusable, simply that it is flawed and I prefer boxed games. It takes a special kind of rabid fanboy to blindly disregard the systems obvious flaws, surely you all should buy an xbox or playstation and yell at each other.....
 

Dys

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Ururu117 said:
Eh? I don't even own a console.

How is it an advantage that the system covers for your own flaws? That is just glaringly hedonistic right there. This isn't a hard thing to do at all, and STEAM has a huge incentive to do it the way they do it because it prevents piracy to a large degree by sealing a hole in the system while only invoking minor changes to how you need to do things, IE, make sure you have an internet connection once.
Steam prevent piracy?..waahh...

Are you aware of programs like steambuster? I'd argue that games based on the steam platform are far easier to pirate than those based on secuROM (for one because neither pirated or legit games feel the need to hide themselves deep within the regeistry). Are you aware how easy it is to pirate the ever popular call of duty six? It's the easiest game in the call of duty series to play online without a legit copy of the game (seriously, I'll refrain from going into it here but I don't think the piracy even counts as hacking in this case).

Wait, forget that. Even if steam somehow does prevent piracy, why should I care? That's not my problem, I'm not involved in piracy (other than getting around intrusive DRM on purchased games, though the last game that neccissitated that was bioshock) and as such it has a minimal effect on me. Why would I choose a system that doesn't cover my flaws when there's a better, age proven system that does?
And I like how your "it is easy to do, you only need to do three things wrong over the course of a year and never write anything down at all and never ask for help from any sort of customer service." Yep, real easy.
A year is hardly a long time, especially for adult gamers. I can still quite easily dig up computer games from well over 10 years ago and play them with no trouble, it's a lot easier to lose a receit than it is a game disk, yes? Mine was one example of how it can fail, basicially anytime you change your email without remember to update steam beforehand (which is damn easy to do, especially for people who don't use it everyday) and suddenly that "oh so secure" system is easy be be seperated from. I lot of people feel more comfortable with a physical copy, and it is justified. Steam security is not infallable, it's not that unusual for people to lose their data.
And your assertion against incremental update is flawed as well, due to the very fact people often don't know how their internet is going to perform. A single giant download is glaringly hard to do for a large percentage of, oh, THE POPULATION OF THE EARTH, especially in areas where broadband is inaccessible. An incremental style is far more accessable, and for a multiarea platform, this is the way to go.
Are you simply trolling me or do you genuinly not understand what I'm complaining about? The compitition I've cited were impulse and xfire, both download patches incrementally and save "as it downloads" rather than in one large clump, the key difference is they do not install patches as they download incrementally. The problem with steam isn't that it allows the pausing of downloading, or that it lets you download large files over several days, it's that as soon as steam begins downloading an update, it begins installing it. This cannot be undone and the only possible way to play the game is to let the update finish. You're damn right that a great many people cannot download large files at once, in fact, singificant updates may be greater than a lot of users entire monthly quota. By partially installing undownloaded patches effectively bars these users from playing their games. That is not only a stupid system, but utter bullshit, that alone is reason to hate the system....That's fantastic if you (like many other gamers on this site) are on an appropriate internet plan, the simple fact is that many people are not, just because it's not a major obstacle for you doesn't mean it isn't to the OP.

The flaws are neither large nor obvious, and while Steam is not perfect, it has, as I have said before, gotten better by leaps and bounds over the last, say, decade. If all you can complainable is that the download style doesn't suit you and it forces you to plan farther than five seconds ahead while you enjoy the LAN based game you just downloaded, you may need to re-evaluate what you regard as "obvious".
The flaws are gapingly obvious, especially the download and install one. ESPECIALLY when you have a shitty internet connection due to living with parents. It may not be obvious to you, or other gaming enthusiasts who have good internet connections, however it is a royal pain in the ass to others. Comparing it to it's immediate competition (I've been talking about impulse a lot, but seriously, it's a far superior platform) and it becomes more obviously flawed (words cannot describe how infinately better xfires and impulses patching system is). Compared to hard copies, it is far, far easier to lose access to your games. The only way to not see the flaws is to actively ignore them. The issues with offline mode, while they are far, far better than they were, are still there. The system is annoying to use offline, and if a secondary account was used on your computer, you cannot access your games without going online. That kinda sucks balls, there's no such problem with hard copies.
As someone who has been with Valve and Steam since it WAS unusuable and shit to the present day, I'm not attacking your argument because I like Steam (I really don't, it killed dozens of good servers and communities when it was deployed), but because your arguments are simply silly.
No, they are not applicable to the enthusiast, that doesn't make them silly. You're responce indicates that you have no fucking idea what I'm complaining about, which is good, hopefully you'll continue to enjoy using steam. I don't, however, and until they fix the problems and bring it up to the level of other platforms, I won't be recommending it.
 

karmapolizei

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Sep 26, 2008
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Ururu117 said:
I have more than 8 gigs of RAM, and I still consider 30 megs too big.
It might be too big for what it does, but it's not big enough for me to care, even with only 3 gigs of RAM like myself. Can't see how it hurts.
 

Mr. Grey

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Aug 31, 2009
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Danny Ocean said:
Mr. Grey said:
I found that Steam overcharges for games you can get for cheap at Good Old Games. And Good Old Games has a manual for every game there, I have yet to actually get a manual for any of the games I've purchased off of Steam.
Right click the icon in your games list, and select 'view manual'. If the devs bothered to make one, it's there.

Of course, manuals these days tend to be pretty sparse anyway, especially for games designed for console. Am I the only one who likes looking at the descriptions of units and buildings?
I prefer a description as well... but more to the point of my statement.

I get a manual with games made years ago, some even ten years. On Good Old Games.

I don't have that liberty with Steam. With Steam I get forbidden, which probably means they're going through a licensing issue with the developer or publisher. If not, then they have no real excuse as I'm sure Valve could make a PDF of each and every manual or at least create a department that does that.

I'm just saying that I hate the lack of a manual and the lack of trying to get one for the game. Then again I haven't a clue on copyright law as I'm not a lawyer in that field, but I bet it's playing a large part in causing this problem.
 

PureFlight

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Apr 16, 2009
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THE VERDICT:
It sounds like most are in favor of Steam from a functionality standpoint. I wanted to make sure that I found out what most of the quirks of the system work and you guys really helped with that! I'm just going to be playing on my laptop right now, so hopefully my system won't slow me down too much.

Also, GoodOldGames sounds sweet! I'm big into CLASSIC games, so i'll definitely have to try it out sometime.

I started my Steam account today. The Username's PureFlight11 (Who else is PureFlight? Really? hahaha). I'm sure i'll be on once i finish Dragon Age. So, like...2014.
 

alinos

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Nov 18, 2009
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Dys said:
General responce to a bunch of the people who've quotes my "I don't like steam and here's why" post. It's very long, so sorry.

alinos said:
how many times have you forgotten the password to your email account and been permanently locked out id hazard a guess at nearly zero

besides if your credit card is tied to the account it is possible to retrieve your account with that


as for the australia thing steams fine provided your not with a terrible service provider
telstra and node both offer unlimited steam downloads and most others have enough bandwidth provided that you should get enough games

as for the unplayable download for games this has happened to me 2 times ever there has been 2 times where when ive gone to play a game that had already been fully downloaded that i couldnt play because of an update

the only real problem is that when it update day for the heavy hitters like Team fortress and L4D there can be issues with other downloads but otherwise it works great

not having to have a pile of game boxes is also awesome

also for reference i have a 1500 internet connection which means it is 150kbps which means yes games take a while to be downloaded but unless your planning on buying every game on there and downloading them all for play ASAP im sure youll be able to play what youve already got while you download your next one

its a shame you just missed all the massive sales they had on the games mass effect was like 5US at one point i think
I've once lost all of my games through steam. The black box came with my graphics card, and as I already had all the games I made a seperate account for my mates to use. The email address no longer exists and as such I have no access to that account.

I'll skim past the rant about how telstra are a terrible ISP and that nobody should use them and point out that most ISPs do not give unlimited steam downloads, and a lot of plans throttle internet speeds to unusable points after 5gb or so. Those living with parents can have a lot of problems with steam because of this, as it happens I'm on a 90gb ADSL2 plan so it isn't much of an issue in my household, it was a few years ago and it is worth warning people of. Just because you as an enthusiast have a good connection doesn't mean that most people do (they don't).
yeah telstra are a terrible ISP but in my experience there the most reliable albeit the most expensive for download quota

i didnt realise that ADSL 1 was considered a good connection its the equivilant of third world connection realistically and i do know some people have it or worse

as for loosing the whole account thing you yourself said you didnt use it which explains why you lost the password
 

brumby

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Jan 7, 2009
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shadow skill said:
The only thing I don't like is how you cannot choose which drive your games go to. Part of the reason I bought a new hdd is because of this "feature" of Steam.
copy and paste the steam folder to another drive??? Seriously.. not that hard man.
 

brumby

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2009
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PureFlight said:
THE VERDICT:
It sounds like most are in favor of Steam from a functionality standpoint. I wanted to make sure that I found out what most of the quirks of the system work and you guys really helped with that! I'm just going to be playing on my laptop right now, so hopefully my system won't slow me down too much.

Also, GoodOldGames sounds sweet! I'm big into CLASSIC games, so i'll definitely have to try it out sometime.

I started my Steam account today. The Username's PureFlight11 (Who else is PureFlight? Really? hahaha). I'm sure i'll be on once i finish Dragon Age. So, like...2014.
Its a Pity GoodOldGames Collection isn't that big. You got more luck finding the old games you want on Steam.
 

Uberjoe19

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Jan 25, 2009
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Steam is fairly good. I have all the Half Life games on my laptop now, and I must say they are much better on PC. I have previously played them on Xbox 360, and they are great on it, but the fact that Steam keeps things updated (and updated REGULARLY) turned me to the PC gaming scene.
 

shadow skill

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brumby said:
shadow skill said:
The only thing I don't like is how you cannot choose which drive your games go to. Part of the reason I bought a new hdd is because of this "feature" of Steam.
copy and paste the steam folder to another drive??? Seriously.. not that hard man.
And that still means all of my steam games can only be on one drive which means that I effectively lose a given amount of space equivalent to the size of the steam folder at a minimum when I get a new disk instead of being able to utilize all of the new hard drive's space. Not to mention I either have to uninstall and then reinstall Steam to the new disk or install a second instance to the new disk....It's not that hard to figure out why copy-pasting the steam folder does not solve the problem.
 

brumby

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Jan 7, 2009
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shadow skill said:
brumby said:
shadow skill said:
The only thing I don't like is how you cannot choose which drive your games go to. Part of the reason I bought a new hdd is because of this "feature" of Steam.
copy and paste the steam folder to another drive??? Seriously.. not that hard man.
And that still means all of my steam games can only be on one drive which means that I effectively lose a given amount of space equivalent to the size of the steam folder at a minimum when I get a new disk instead of being able to utilize all of the new hard drive's space. Not to mention I either have to uninstall and then reinstall Steam to the new disk or install a second instance to the new disk....It's not that hard to figure out why copy-pasting the steam folder does not solve the problem.
yep. cus people want their games sprinkled evenly over 15 partitions. Keeping all your stuff in the same place just isn't good enough. And Hard drives are like $100 Australian for 1tb. Hard drive storage really isn't a problem. And Copy pasting works fine. I've done it a thousand times.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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Pifflestick said:
Discs are breakable, scratchable, and generally destroyable, whereas the data that Steam has for your games is, at least to my knowledge, indestructable. Plus, finding stores that sell a good variety of games and not just the trendy bullshit is near impossible.
That latter sentence is the #1 reason why I so greatly adore Steam. Good PC games in retail stores are rare. Extremely rare. Good PC games on Steam are abundant and (during Steam's many sales) almost literally a dime a dozen.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Do you hack?

If not, Steam all the way.

If you do, shame on you, and use Steam anyway. That way you'll get what you justly deserve.