Steamednotfried questions: 'What Makes Halo so Special?'

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xChevelle24

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Halo is special because it makes every nerd worldwide feel like a total bad ass mofo while sitting behind a television screen. In the real world, Halo is just simple a sandbox shooter in which it takes most guns half their ammo to kill something, in which case you reload and get shot while reloading, finish reloading, then see who can run out of ammo first. Nothing really special about it in my opinion, other than story mode and forge. But saying that the different mods that a game has makes it special is like saying that since girl A has different ear rings than girl B, it makes girl A special. I personally only like playing Halo 3 just for the custom games, such as zombies, cat and mouse, etc. because I personally can't stand the amount of 3rd graders playing multiplayer and teamkilling and yellling into their mics; or the MLG pro guys who just run around with swords/rockets and then say "Get pwn'd" over their mic every time they even press the trigger. But other than the fun and different custom games, Halo is a sandbox shooter in which you get different weapons and you go around killing until you run out of ammo, no real goal, no real strategy required. I think the most complicated strategy I have encountered on Halo 3 was "ok, you rush the rockets and as soon as you get them fall back while we cover you with our 34 grenades."
 

IsoNeko

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xChevelle24 said:
I think the most complicated strategy I have encountered on Halo 3 was "ok, you rush the rockets and as soon as you get them fall back while we cover you with our 34 grenades."
Really? My average strategy on valhalla involves leading one man to Laser, then having the Hog cover up behind him as he escapes. Then lure the Enemy Banshee into our territory and have the Hog, Laser or our Banshee take it out. Then after that's clear, send our 5th man with a sniper and our Laser guy up onto Top Mid where Laser Spawns and leave them there providing support while our Hog and Banshee rip up at their base.

Effectively, that leads to an easy win if executed properly, with no way out for the opposing team. As the Laser will take out any of their vehicles, and the Sniper will take out any straddlers. While the Banshee and Hog cover most of the ground and take out most of the remaining forces. The only worry is for a Missile Pod. Which, if aimed at the Banshee and providing the pilot has any brains is easily avoided by circling around the spire bases, while the Hog, Laser, Sniper and quite possibly the Banshee itself takes out Mr. Missile Pod.

Halo's more intricate than you think ;)
 

steamednotfried

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Oct 27, 2008
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xChevelle24 said:
Halo is special because it makes every nerd worldwide feel like a total bad ass mofo while sitting behind a television screen. In the real world, Halo is just simple a sandbox shooter in which it takes most guns half their ammo to kill something, in which case you reload and get shot while reloading, finish reloading, then see who can run out of ammo first. Nothing really special about it in my opinion, other than story mode and forge. But saying that the different mods that a game has makes it special is like saying that since girl A has different ear rings than girl B, it makes girl A special. I personally only like playing Halo 3 just for the custom games, such as zombies, cat and mouse, etc. because I personally can't stand the amount of 3rd graders playing multiplayer and teamkilling and yellling into their mics; or the MLG pro guys who just run around with swords/rockets and then say "Get pwn'd" over their mic every time they even press the trigger. But other than the fun and different custom games, Halo is a sandbox shooter in which you get different weapons and you go around killing until you run out of ammo, no real goal, no real strategy required. I think the most complicated strategy I have encountered on Halo 3 was "ok, you rush the rockets and as soon as you get them fall back while we cover you with our 34 grenades."
I'm guessing you're not very good at Halo? It can sometimes feel a bit llike this in a tight quaters deathmatch, but even here there is an art to success in this game. You have 3, or sometimes 4 or 5 means of attack: grenades, melee, and your guns. Each type of attack does a different amount of damage, and has advantages and disadvantages. Close quarters combat is all about making the better split-second decisions about if and precisely when to use each type of attack, and the ability to pull it off. In more expansive envoronments, a world of depth is added by vehicles, items, terrain, more weapon types which can be effective, and most importantly, physics. If all you're thinking about is the size of your clip, then how will you react when someone uses a grenade to manipulate an unmanned warthog to crush you as you chase them round a big rock after knocking out their shields?
 

Sindaine

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Apparently it's special because, in my brother's case, it allows you scream at people over the internet for not playing the way you want them to and then proceed to be a fat offensive little cockbag that should be dickpunched until you bleed out the eyeballs.
 

xChevelle24

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steamednotfried said:
xChevelle24 said:
Halo is special because it makes every nerd worldwide feel like a total bad ass mofo while sitting behind a television screen. In the real world, Halo is just simple a sandbox shooter in which it takes most guns half their ammo to kill something, in which case you reload and get shot while reloading, finish reloading, then see who can run out of ammo first. Nothing really special about it in my opinion, other than story mode and forge. But saying that the different mods that a game has makes it special is like saying that since girl A has different ear rings than girl B, it makes girl A special. I personally only like playing Halo 3 just for the custom games, such as zombies, cat and mouse, etc. because I personally can't stand the amount of 3rd graders playing multiplayer and teamkilling and yellling into their mics; or the MLG pro guys who just run around with swords/rockets and then say "Get pwn'd" over their mic every time they even press the trigger. But other than the fun and different custom games, Halo is a sandbox shooter in which you get different weapons and you go around killing until you run out of ammo, no real goal, no real strategy required. I think the most complicated strategy I have encountered on Halo 3 was "ok, you rush the rockets and as soon as you get them fall back while we cover you with our 34 grenades."
I'm guessing you're not very good at Halo? It can sometimes feel a bit llike this in a tight quaters deathmatch, but even here there is an art to success in this game. You have 3, or sometimes 4 or 5 means of attack: grenades, melee, and your guns. Each type of attack does a different amount of damage, and has advantages and disadvantages. Close quarters combat is all about making the better split-second decisions about if and precisely when to use each type of attack, and the ability to pull it off. In more expansive envoronments, a world of depth is added by vehicles, items, terrain, more weapon types which can be effective, and most importantly, physics. If all you're thinking about is the size of your clip, then how will you react when someone uses a grenade to manipulate an unmanned warthog to crush you as you chase them round a big rock after knocking out their shields?
Well, compared to the professional Halo gamers; no, I'm not good at all. But usually when I play with a good team who know what their doing and don't run around like a bunch of fagtards playing tag with the melee button, I do pretty well. When I tried at Halo, I was pretty good, I got onto a couple of good teams and we had clan matches every now and then and usually dominated people, but then they all quit, which led me to playing in games with the people that I mentioned above. Halo is pretty much just about who controls what weapons (especially on the maps which don't have vehicles, which turns out to be most of the maps that I usually get stuck playing on) I don't know, maybe I'm just not a Halo fanboy so I just don't find this game very unique.
 

megapenguinx

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chanceashaman said:
Its an average first person shooter at best. I think the only reason it has a huge fan base like it does now, was because it was one of the few games that came with the Xbox launch that wasn't complete crap. But that's just my two cents.
I agree. The story is eh, the gameplay consists of: kill anything non-human (or in the case of the second and third games non-human or elite), and the multiplayer is relatively slower than that of other shooters and non tactical. It did do some revolutionary things (and no one better say it was the first FPS to work on a console or I swear to God I will beat them over the head with a Gamecube, then turn it on and play Animal Crossing on their limp bodies to further add insult to injury), but I think those that herald it as the best game ever really need to play more games.
 

Krakyn

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megapenguinx said:
chanceashaman said:
Its an average first person shooter at best. I think the only reason it has a huge fan base like it does now, was because it was one of the few games that came with the Xbox launch that wasn't complete crap. But that's just my two cents.
I agree. The story is eh, the gameplay consists of: kill anything non-human (or in the case of the second and third games non-human or elite), and the multiplayer is relatively slower than that of other shooters and non tactical. It did do some revolutionary things (and no one better say it was the first FPS to work on a console or I swear to God I will beat them over the head with a Gamecube, then turn it on and play Animal Crossing on their limp bodies to further add insult to injury), but I think those that herald it as the best game ever really need to play more games.
Fully agree with bold text. Halo:CE was a good game, and it did some things differently. I did not, however, create the genre. I've never played Half-Life or CS, Quake or Doom, but I have played Halo:CE. When I look at Halo compared to those other games I haven't played, I can still see that they're very similar. Fanboism clouds your judgment, people. Go look at what these other games have to offer and then tell me how revolutionary Halo was.

Just because Halo was the first game you saw the features in doesn't mean it was the first time they were prolific. You were probably too young, just as I was, and Halo came out at the right time.
 

megapenguinx

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Krakyn said:
megapenguinx said:
chanceashaman said:
Its an average first person shooter at best. I think the only reason it has a huge fan base like it does now, was because it was one of the few games that came with the Xbox launch that wasn't complete crap. But that's just my two cents.
I agree. The story is eh, the gameplay consists of: kill anything non-human (or in the case of the second and third games non-human or elite), and the multiplayer is relatively slower than that of other shooters and non tactical. It did do some revolutionary things (and no one better say it was the first FPS to work on a console or I swear to God I will beat them over the head with a Gamecube, then turn it on and play Animal Crossing on their limp bodies to further add insult to injury), but I think those that herald it as the best game ever really need to play more games.
Fully agree with bold text. Halo:CE was a good game, and it did some things differently. I did not, however, create the genre. I've never played Half-Life or CS, Quake or Doom, but I have played Halo:CE. When I look at Halo compared to those other games I haven't played, I can still see that they're very similar. Fanboism clouds your judgment, people. Go look at what these other games have to offer and then tell me how revolutionary Halo was.

Just because Halo was the first game you saw the features in doesn't mean it was the first time they were prolific. You were probably too young, just as I was, and Halo came out at the right time.
Not even in just shooters, I know people who think it's the greatest video game ever. Which really irritates me. These people also think Oblivion is meh and God Of War was not an epic game. Le sigh, so hard to find people who truly appreciate a games.
 

NewClassic_v1legacy

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steamednotfried said:
As I?m writing, though, I don?t believe it, that something seemingly so trivial could have such an impact on the game. What do you think?

P.S. I was going to add some pictures to break up the text, but I don't know how to, could someone tell me please.
I think you're doing the same thing you've always done. You've a very "Sit down and strategize" kinda guy, seems like. You look at a given stimulus, behind some hailfire figuring out the most efficient way from point A to point B without collecting bullet holes C through Z somewhere on the journey.

Because of this, you tend to put your entire head around the situation. The problem is you aren't thinking like a soldier or a unit, you're thinking like a gamer. "Well, the spawn is an infinite spawn off of point x." A soldier might wonder where enemy units are coming from, but he certainly wouldn't factor it into going away ever. He would factor waiting for lulls int he charge so he could get by unperturbed. The reasoning behind this is a single rank-and-file soldier will not win the war. There is no individual unit that's badass enough to enemy lines and own the entire city by the evening.

Halo gives you no such graces. You aren't just some fresh-from-boot teenager enlisting from High School, you're a Spartan. The Chief is more or less capable of walking into a city and filling each Covenant within a five mile radius full of dead, and come out more or less in a single piece.

But that's the nature of narratives, which this essay doesn't really cover. You tack it onto the end, but it doesn't feel genuine. You're talking about game design with this essay, and that's what I'm going to sit on. You're asking a game designed to be a realistic wartime shooter to mirror a game where you're the Lone Ranger. Not going to happen. Soldiers don't one-up the entire opposing force. They get to where they're going, and only kill if things get in the way. Run if you can, hide if you can't, and kill only when you're stuck.

Chief is a super-soldier. He's the one-guy. In war, you're a cog. If you get separated from your unit, you still have to bail yourself out of the fire, even though you're a cog. The game doesn't expect you to do anything on your own. It does, however, expect you to reach your goal. If you have to do so without a CO, then do it.

Overall, I honestly do think you're missing forest because the trees are in the way. You spend so much time sitting on game mechanics that you can't let yourself enjoy the narrative or gameplay. I notice you do not gripe about CoD's controls, health, graphics, music, or any other aspect. Just game design. You can't fault a game for doing it right, but don't so differently than you're used to.

Two types of images. IMG tags, and IMG_INLINE. I'll go through each of them briefly.

IMG tags are as simple as images get. They're tacked onto the post wherever they're put, be it in the middle of a paragraph or off on their own line. To do this, simply get the URL to the image, and out it in image tags. For example, using this following line:
[IMG]http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg[/IMG]
will produce:


Image inline is more complicated, involving ability to align the image to either the left or the right, and allows for captions. The full command line will look like this:
http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg</img_inline>
Which will produce this:
http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg

Also note this: IMG_INLINE will also make the image fit into the text, and the text will wrap around the image. This is particularly useful for breaking up walls of text as it eases the eyes from repetitive blocks of text. Also note the width and height are in pixels, and alignment possibilities are "left", "right", and "center". Note that the gray box outline around the image will be exactly 700 pixels wide, regardless of the width of the image you use. It will also align the image to the left. If the image is smaller, use
<center>[IMG]http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg[/IMG]</center> instead.
 

steamednotfried

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Oct 27, 2008
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NewClassic said:
steamednotfried said:
As I?m writing, though, I don?t believe it, that something seemingly so trivial could have such an impact on the game. What do you think?

P.S. I was going to add some pictures to break up the text, but I don't know how to, could someone tell me please.
I think you're doing the same thing you've always done. You've a very "Sit down and strategize" kinda guy, seems like. You look at a given stimulus, behind some hailfire figuring out the most efficient way from point A to point B without collecting bullet holes C through Z somewhere on the journey.

Because of this, you tend to put your entire head around the situation. The problem is you aren't thinking like a soldier or a unit, you're thinking like a gamer. "Well, the spawn is an infinite spawn off of point x." A soldier might wonder where enemy units are coming from, but he certainly wouldn't factor it into going away ever. He would factor waiting for lulls int he charge so he could get by unperturbed. The reasoning behind this is a single rank-and-file soldier will not win the war. There is no individual unit that's badass enough to enemy lines and own the entire city by the evening.

Halo gives you no such graces. You aren't just some fresh-from-boot teenager enlisting from High School, you're a Spartan. The Chief is more or less capable of walking into a city and filling each Covenant within a five mile radius full of dead, and come out more or less in a single piece.

But that's the nature of narratives, which this essay doesn't really cover. You tack it onto the end, but it doesn't feel genuine. You're talking about game design with this essay, and that's what I'm going to sit on. You're asking a game designed to be a realistic wartime shooter to mirror a game where you're the Lone Ranger. Not going to happen. Soldiers don't one-up the entire opposing force. They get to where they're going, and only kill if things get in the way. Run if you can, hide if you can't, and kill only when you're stuck.

Chief is a super-soldier. He's the one-guy. In war, you're a cog. If you get separated from your unit, you still have to bail yourself out of the fire, even though you're a cog. The game doesn't expect you to do anything on your own. It does, however, expect you to reach your goal. If you have to do so without a CO, then do it.

Overall, I honestly do think you're missing forest because the trees are in the way. You spend so much time sitting on game mechanics that you can't let yourself enjoy the narrative or gameplay. I notice you do not gripe about CoD's controls, health, graphics, music, or any other aspect. Just game design. You can't fault a game for doing it right, but don't so differently than you're used to.

Two types of images. IMG tags, and IMG_INLINE. I'll go through each of them briefly.

IMG tags are as simple as images get. They're tacked onto the post wherever they're put, be it in the middle of a paragraph or off on their own line. To do this, simply get the URL to the image, and out it in image tags. For example, using this following line:
[IMG]http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg[/IMG]
will produce:


Image inline is more complicated, involving ability to align the image to either the left or the right, and allows for captions. The full command line will look like this:
http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg</img_inline>
Which will produce this:
http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg

Also note this: IMG_INLINE will also make the image fit into the text, and the text will wrap around the image. This is particularly useful for breaking up walls of text as it eases the eyes from repetitive blocks of text. Also note the width and height are in pixels, and alignment possibilities are "left", "right", and "center". Note that the gray box outline around the image will be exactly 700 pixels wide, regardless of the width of the image you use. It will also align the image to the left. If the image is smaller, use
<center>[IMG]http://static.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/users/avatars/253825.jpg[/IMG]</center> instead.
On the contrary, I fault the game for forcing you to play as if you are the master chief, not the other way round, I'm not quite sure how you managed to get muddled up there. If you really were a soldier in common scenario in COD4: you're held up in a decent position, the enemies keep coming and you and your comrades keep killing them, why would you want to push up (unless you had some sort of time limit)? You know that each time you kill someone, you made a significant advance: that it one less human on the other side, you'll pick them off like this all day if you can. This, I beleive would be the natural response by a cog in a war effort in such a scenario. But the game makes this an inviable approach. Firstly, it doesn't let the player make any sort of informed decision, no matter whether he sees himself as masterchief, Soap, ow whoever else, because of the inconsistent spawn points. Secondly, if anything, it forces you to play like the masterchief, since, most of the time, you have to charge headfirst into the enemy camp in order to stop them spawning. All this is aside from the fact that, despite your low rank, you are expected to make the decisions on when to advance, and often make the actual advance on your own. I cannot beleive you are arguing that COD4 may be played by placing yourself in an average soldiers shoes and making intuitive decisions.
 

mangus

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Jan 2, 2009
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Halo is so popular people make a big show as if it isn't.

Halo 1 - Colours. Blue and purple and gray, it was awesome.
Halo 2 - Boarding enemy vehicles. I play as perpetual infantry.
Halo 3 - Saved films. Bloody Brilliant.
 

Wicky_42

New member
Sep 15, 2008
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NewClassic said:
I think you're doing the same thing you've always done. You've a very "Sit down and strategize" kinda guy, seems like. You look at a given stimulus, behind some hailfire figuring out the most efficient way from point A to point B without collecting bullet holes C through Z somewhere on the journey.

Because of this, you tend to put your entire head around the situation. The problem is you aren't thinking like a soldier or a unit, you're thinking like a gamer. "Well, the spawn is an infinite spawn off of point x." A soldier might wonder where enemy units are coming from, but he certainly wouldn't factor it into going away ever. He would factor waiting for lulls int he charge so he could get by unperturbed. The reasoning behind this is a single rank-and-file soldier will not win the war. There is no individual unit that's badass enough to enemy lines and own the entire city by the evening.

Halo gives you no such graces. You aren't just some fresh-from-boot teenager enlisting from High School, you're a Spartan. The Chief is more or less capable of walking into a city and filling each Covenant within a five mile radius full of dead, and come out more or less in a single piece.

But that's the nature of narratives, which this essay doesn't really cover. You tack it onto the end, but it doesn't feel genuine. You're talking about game design with this essay, and that's what I'm going to sit on. You're asking a game designed to be a realistic wartime shooter to mirror a game where you're the Lone Ranger. Not going to happen. Soldiers don't one-up the entire opposing force. They get to where they're going, and only kill if things get in the way. Run if you can, hide if you can't, and kill only when you're stuck.

Chief is a super-soldier. He's the one-guy. In war, you're a cog. If you get separated from your unit, you still have to bail yourself out of the fire, even though you're a cog. The game doesn't expect you to do anything on your own. It does, however, expect you to reach your goal. If you have to do so without a CO, then do it.

Overall, I honestly do think you're missing forest because the trees are in the way. You spend so much time sitting on game mechanics that you can't let yourself enjoy the narrative or gameplay. I notice you do not gripe about CoD's controls, health, graphics, music, or any other aspect. Just game design. You can't fault a game for doing it right, but don't so differently than you're used to.
Wow, possibly the first person here to actually respond to the OP in a coherent manner - good on you!

However, there are, as Steamed pointed out, points that you don't seem to get. CoD4 is far from a "realistic wartime shooter": as you say, a realistic wartime shooter would have you as one of many infantry in a unit, individually unable to drive the course of the war, unable to single-handedly take on the entire enemy force like MC would be able to. However, think back to your experience of CoD: how many times in the US army sections did any part of your squad lead the way in any of the situations? I seem to remember that they only did this at a couple of points, when a closed door was used to prevent you from out-running your squad, and then it was a precisely scripted break and clear, shooting at exact angles to in one case nail a couple of guys and in another to draw patterns on the walls. With lead.

Remember that first US level, taking the desert town looking for the terrorist leader? How you would have to drag your team up the streets, how they did absolutely fuck-all, even when a T was standing in the middle of the unit shooting you in the back? How they were completely unable to cover you, each other or the flanks? How there was an endless stream of reinforcements as they died, but your allies never numbered above about 5? How enemies would persist in spawning in front of and behind you until you had gone a set distance down the road, no matter how much you tried to clear each side of the one block you could advance down out?

All this comes from the game designers wanting to create the idea of assaulting through a hostile city whilst ensuring that basic FPS staple features still hold - there are enemies to shoot almost continuously, your personal kill count is absolutely insane, and you are made to feel important by being the only guy able to lead the way through the dangerous zone. It's all a mechanic to make it play like a Hollywood movie, with the camera always focused on you - you do most of the awesome stuff, you get most of the kills etc because you're the star of the show. Strange how none of your team mates notice your godly powers, and how, despite being the only soldier with a sense of initiative or tactics you've not been promoted.

Compare this briefly with Halo: the game admits that you are meant to be a kick-ass killing machine, and throws you into situations accordingly - for example, infiltrate the alien battleship and rescue your captain - Truth and Reconciliation, third level, Halo 1. You get a whole bunch of Marines at the start, but unlike in CoD they are finite. They do similar things - run to cover, lay down fire, throw grenades, shout obscenities - but they do it dynamically, not following a preset list of coordinates to get to the goal, but responding to enemies with immediate decisions, and acting and moving accordingly.

What's more is that they don't just mindlessly follow you - sure, you lead the way, but then, you're supposed to because you're the Chief. And you have shields. Your allies will fan out, search for enemies, communicate with each other, basically move dynamically through a combat zone independent of your personal progress - you might have caught an enemy flanking force behind the marine's push, but the marines might not notice and carry on without you! Possibly annoying or suicidal, it none the less demonstrates an independent, thinking AI that CoD just can't compete with.

Bear in mind that this is the FIRST Halo game here, and it is a hell of a lot older that CoD4.


The point here isn't 'this game sucks' or 'this game is better than that one', or even that 'Halo is great', it's about the game play and design: most FPS games have dramatic set-piece battles in some manner, but when you stop to think about it you can realise that in some cases it's a simulation of a battle, whilst in others it actually is a battle between two AI factions.

To take two examples from the first Halo again: 1) The end of "Two Betrayals" sees you come across Covenant and Flood battling it out. However, if you watch through a sniper scope, the Flood (for all their melee expertise) are just running backwards just at the outer range of Covenant fire - scripted not to attack least either side be weaken too much to make it interesting for the player.
2) Earlier in the same level, however, the player is forced to travel across a pair of parallel bridges, first one way and then, later, down the other side. The first side is occupied by the Covenant, the other by the Flood, and as the player arrives the two are locking in mortal combat: rounds are flying, combat forms leap across the gap between bridges, grenades fly indiscriminately etc. The only thing scripted is that occasionally combat forms will jump around you specifically - everything else is a free-form battle with the AI doing the hard work, not the level designer or scripter.

The first example shows a situation that looks like a battle, but on close examination isn't one, it's just a simulation for the benefit of the player, but if you get too close everyone just attack you rather than continuing their 'battle', spoiling the effect for me. The second shows a more realistic fight, chaotic, close-quarters and vicious, with dynamic combatants fighting for survival and through which you could choose to charge without firing a shot if you so wished, avoiding attention and leaving the AI to fight it out. THAT's how it should be done.