Stem cells have cured an HIV+ patient

[Cocamaster]

snip

My bad, I was under the impression that they were using test tube babies or the uterus extraction thing? I can't imagine the extraction is more invasive than a pap smear, and aren't the fetuses only viable for use shortly after conception?

I meant the extraction of the stem cells from the embryo, not the embryo itself.

As a human, I still feel stong empathy for other human life and don't like it when the embryo is destroyed for it's stem cells, even while understanding there may be no other choice.

It's... complicated.

 

[PunkRex]

Stem cells save lives. fact. yet people area against them?

so theres another reason why religion need to GTFO of modern society.

But it all boils down to...save one and kill one before it knows whats going on....or let one die and let one be born...

And...lets face it women will get pregnant JUST to kill the baby

I agree... sort of. Im one of the few people I know thats abit shaky when it comes to Abortion. Everyone else is either "HELLS YEAH!" or "HEAVENS NO!" and im just kinda "Limbo... maybe" I dont know. Its not really murder but it is denying live.

It would be great if they could genetically engineer sperm and eggs to sort of stop at the stem cell stage, then they could be harvested. Although if your against Stem cells and Abortion then chances are you wont be to keen on this plan either.

DISCLAIMER: When I say "your" and "you" here I dont mean you guy, I just mean in general (Im not actually just trolling).

dont worry i understand what your saying....this right here alone can tear a country apart truthfull i dont really think a kid is a kid untill it is born...as in i was born on august 1st...not my parents called the stork 6 months before..so its still a bit strange for me

The women has rights but more then the child who is not born? If I got a girl pregnent and we decided not to keep it, I would ask her to carry it and then put it up for adoption, I dont think I could "prevent" it from a chance at life.

 

[TaboriHK]

I wouldn't quite say it has gotten to that point yet, but the many posts disagreeing with you and telling you that you have very rash views (which you are all doing very politely Escapees, I applaud you) that don't need to be sprouted here, that is at least pretty major foreshadowing.

I do have other problems with your posts, but that would involve me speaking on behalf of JulianKing, which I don't really feel is appropriate.

I'm not sure what a rash view is, but instead of wasting your time trying to chastize me, why don't you actually read the thread again, since everything already got covered ad nauseum. Then you can stop trying to have the last word because this is officially beyond pointless.

 

[PunkRex]

Got to love those Germans they make the best stuff.

Best Cars

Best early Motorcycles

Best Automatic guns

Best Wars are with the Germans

They came up with the Shamwow

Lest not forget all the German Scientists we got after WW2 sum of the very best.

Now we have German stem cell tech.

Now if we can just get them working on Jet-packs.

Abit like the Japanese who tend to keep ethics out of science.
Get the axis powers and all their advanced technologies, we won my ass.

 

[McNinja]

Eh, it's a little of both. It requires a bit of a unique setup for both the donor and patient, so we're nowhere close to having a pharma mass-producing it.

Pretty much this. Also, the donor was naturally resistant to HIV. We need more of him. Hook him up to a machine and drain his bone marrow, or figure out how to cause the specific mutation in other people. Which ever hurts less.

 

[Trivun]

And this, American Conservatives and religious fanatics, is why we need stem cell research. So you can take your "moral high ground", and sod off...

Seriously, that is what I think. Stem cell research has proven time and again that it has massive potential to save lives and make things better for people with currently 'incurable' illnesses. Anyone who thinks that's a bad thing needs to get their head screwed back on, because something is clearly missing from their brains to hate the research that is, you know, saving people's lives... Which, as a Christian myself, I feel is far more useful than waiting around for "God to save them"...

 

[Thedayrecker]

I also heard stem cells can create lasers, and time travel possible! /joke

This is pretty intresting. Might bring it up in medical class tomorrow.

 

[Tdc2182]

They came up with the Shamwow

I learned something informative today.

Thank you Germany.

 

[McNinja]

snip

My bad, I was under the impression that they were using test tube babies or the uterus extraction thing? I can't imagine the extraction is more invasive than a pap smear, and aren't the fetuses only viable for use shortly after conception?

I meant the extraction of the stem cells from the embryo, not the embryo itself.

As a human, I still feel stong empathy for other human life and don't like it when the embryo is destroyed for it's stem cells, even while understanding there may be no other choice.

It's... complicated.

Not necessarily. Most embryos that are used are made in a lab with eggs and sperm that would have been thrown away anyways. Seriously, the amount of discarded eggs is astounding. Why would we waste the opportunity to give someone life from something that will never be?

Also, every time someone get some stem cells doesn't mean that they are getting it from and embryo. There are stem cell lines, which are basically lines of stem cells that keep duplicating. It is only one the stem cell lines cannot create more cells is another embryo used.

 

[Keela]

I too find your points to be a bit on the hard-headed side. You do seem to be using the term "religious people" a bit broadly. I think that "those religious folk who have interpreted the writings in which they believe to be against such things as stem-cell research" would have worked a bit better. It's all about being specific. I could say that North Koreans are amoral, but there are always those who disagree with the current system and who do reside in the country. It's just not really fair to the minority of a group of people when you group them together with the majority.

Read the entire thread. I assumed people followed what I meant specifically but clarified further.

I did, but I'm still saying. I'm not religious, and I was still offended by the beginning of your argument. I don't totally side with all the others, I agree with Lormazd about the "two to tango" thing, but still. You just seemed all wound up and ready to argue when people started calling you out on it. I also think (this is going waaay back to the first page) that it was cruel of you to say that those against stem cell research are either biased or uninformed. It's not whether they percieve the whole situation, but the way in which they percieve it. They simply don't think the same way you do, that doesn't make them ignorant. Hell, I agree with a couple of your points myself (i.e. the whole religion isn't inherently bad, but it can sometimes justify intolerance, etc.) . You just seem (don't hate me for this) to be in the mindset that there can only be one correct opinion per argument. (I'm glad you and Julianking93 came to an understanding, though.) Just try to be a bit more approachable from the outset is all I'm asking; make sure to present your entire opinion before entering any arguments to avoid misunderstandings. I wanted to punch you in the dick from the outset of this thread; I only calmed my nerd rage when I read and considered the entire rest of the thread, which took a damn long time, and which most people wouldn't do. I'm just saying you can avoid those sorts of situations if you make sure your ideas and intentions are crystal-clear from the outset.

 

[Cocamaster]

snip

My bad, I was under the impression that they were using test tube babies or the uterus extraction thing? I can't imagine the extraction is more invasive than a pap smear, and aren't the fetuses only viable for use shortly after conception?

I meant the extraction of the stem cells from the embryo, not the embryo itself.

As a human, I still feel stong empathy for other human life and don't like it when the embryo is destroyed for it's stem cells, even while understanding there may be no other choice.

It's... complicated.

Not necessarily. Most embryos that are used are made in a lab with eggs and sperm that would have been thrown away anyways. Seriously, the amount of discarded eggs is astounding. Why would we waste the opportunity to give someone life from something that will never be?

Also, every time someone get some stem cells doesn't mean that they are getting it from and embryo. There are stem cell lines, which are basically lines of stem cells that keep duplicating. It is only one the stem cell lines cannot create more cells is another embryo used.

I know this, too. That's why I said that "some" methods of extraction bother me. I suppose that you missed that.

You can actually arange to donate your baby's stem cells now, or keep then in storage, without risk of hurting him. I believe that is awesome and a great compromise. I hope it catches on.

 

[Kakashi on crack]

http://www.aidsmap.com/page/1577949/


I just wonder if this is a breakthrough in HIV treatment and cures, or if it was just a case of being a miracle for this one guy.

Not really, doctors have found cures for all types of HIV aids, the only problem is that the virus adapts -so- quickly that every time they find a cure it's already genetically adapted to it and is resistant/immune to it, or is so different that the cure just doesn't work.

This isn't as rare a case as one would think.

 

[TaboriHK]

I did, but I'm still saying. I'm not religious, and I was still offended by the beginning of your argument. I don't totally side with all the others, I agree with Lormazd about the "two to tango" thing, but still. You just seemed all wound up and ready to argue when people started calling you out on it.

I'm usually ready to talk about something aggressively. I don't resort to ad hominem attacks or bullying to make my points, but I am blunt. Always have been.

I also think (this is going waaay back to the first page) that it was cruel of you to say that those against stem cell research are either biased or uninformed. It's not whether they percieve the whole situation, but the way in which they percieve it. They simply don't think the same way you do, that doesn't make them ignorant.

That's what bias is. This is not a situation of right and wrong, it's a situation of opinions. People who feel that babies have a soul at the point of conception are biased to believe that that life needs to be protected, and that is why they pull against stem cell research. My bias is that I believe the benefits outweigh the consequences, and that in most cases there aren't tangible consequences. People take bias as a negative. It's not, it's a limitation that we all have in one way or another in regards to perception.

Hell, I agree with a couple of your points myself (i.e. the whole religion isn't inherently bad, but it can sometimes justify intolerance, etc.) . You just seem (don't hate me for this) to be in the mindset that there can only be one correct opinion per argument.

Again, it's not about right and wrong. My opinion is that my opinion is right. But it isn't actually right. It just resonates more with me.

Just try to be a bit more approachable from the outset is all I'm asking; make sure to present your entire opinion before entering any arguments to avoid misunderstandings. I wanted to punch you in the dick from the outset of this thread; I only calmed my nerd rage when I read and considered the entire rest of the thread, which took a damn long time, and which most people wouldn't do. I'm just saying you can avoid those sorts of situations if you make sure your ideas and intentions are crystal-clear from the outset.

I certainly shot myself in the foot with my shorthand, but also keep in mind that this is something that annoys me too. I'm tired of medical advances being slowed or denied because of a special interest group's (in my opinion) arbitrary moral restrictions. Sometimes our biases take a peg out of the point or view we're trying to express, but on the flip side, half this thread wouldn't be here if I didn't make an (unintentionally) polarizing statement. I don't view disagreement as failure in general, and in this case I can't conclusively say that drawing ire was a mistake. It definitely annoyed some people and put me in a hole that I had to articulate myself out of, but it also drew the participants more into the discussion. So who can say? I'm more interested in a spirited discussion than I am maintaining a charmed reputation, so this kinda thing happens now and again.

 

[justnotcricket]

This sounds like a positive step. We'd better just remember that HIV isn't called a 'kamikaze virus' for nothing - it mutates so often and so drastically that in a short while this may not help anyone. I'm happy at the progress, but my optimism is cautious.

 

[Keela]

*snip*

That's another thing, when you get a bunch of people hating you, you can't really express your opinion as well when people are inclined to disagree with you solely on the basis of your reputation. I admit, I've seen plenty of your posts before, and while you do often present valid points, you present them so harshly and lash out (or argue intensely) so quickly that I tend to think of you as, I am really trying to jump the shark tank here, a dick to people. When I think of you as a dick, I have a natural inclination to disagree with you. When I have an instant "screw off" reaction to you, that sort of hurts my ability to take your points seriously and have an in-depth discussion, and that often leads to completely off-topic arguments like the ones we've had here today. In my honest opinion, you could do to be a bit nicer. It could very well improve your ability to have intelligent, healthy arguments instead of everyone just hating everything you say because of the way you present your opinion.

 

[TaboriHK]

*snip*

That's another thing, when you get a bunch of people hating you, you can't really express your opinion as well when people are inclined to disagree with you solely on the basis of your reputation. I admit, I've seen plenty of your posts before, and while you do often present valid points, you present them so harshly and lash out (or argue intensely) so quickly that I tend to think of you as, I am really trying to jump the shark tank here, a dick to people. When I think of you as a dick, I have a natural inclination to disagree with you. When I have an instant "screw off" reaction to you, that sort of hurts my ability to take your points seriously and have an in-depth discussion, and that often leads to completely off-topic arguments like the ones we've had here today. In my honest opinion, you could do to be a bit nicer. It could very well improve your ability to have intelligent, healthy arguments instead of everyone just hating everything you say because of the way you present your opinion.

Meh. I may not be a bed of roses but I'd like to think I'm fair.

 

[Tdc2182]

I'm not sure what a rash view is, but instead of wasting your time trying to chastize me, why don't you actually read the thread again, since everything already got covered ad nauseum.

You were around the fifth post when you said that. Not everything had even begin to be considered "covered".

Yet, you responded to someones response who was stating his distaste with people blocking the stem cell research by stating "Not people, religious people"

Completely uncalled for and a very stupid exaggeration on such a broad range of people.

Then you can stop trying to have the last word because this is officially beyond pointless.

Really? By responding to everyone of your questions, I was trying to get the last word in?

Your last two posts to me.

At what point did it get 'out of control?'

You reported me for disagreeing with you? Are you kidding me?

Notice the question marks.

I have argued with some hard headed religious people on other forums, but you are pretty far up there on the list of people who just plain won't consider for a moment they are wrong whilst being chastised.

I can see you are so soaked up in your own self righteous pride right now and this will most likely just bounce right off, but it needed to be said.

Good day, and judging by your rather extremist posts, I rather don't wish to confront you in the future so I am unfortunately going to place you on my ignore list.

Yet again, good day.

 

[ninjajoeman]

This is just another reason why I can't understand why people get all pissy over stem cell research.

I'd like to see those anti stem cell research groups refute this now.

its more of the way that they get the stem cells the thing that they are protesting.

 

[TaboriHK]

I'm not sure what a rash view is, but instead of wasting your time trying to chastize me, why don't you actually read the thread again, since everything already got covered ad nauseum.

You were around the fifth post when you said that. Not everything had even begin to be considered "covered".

Yet, you responded to someones response who was stating his distaste with people blocking the stem cell research by stating "Not people, religious people"

Completely uncalled for and a very stupid exaggeration on such a broad range of people.

Then you can stop trying to have the last word because this is officially beyond pointless.

Really? By responding to everyone of your questions, I was trying to get the last word in?

Your last two posts to me.

At what point did it get 'out of control?'

You reported me for disagreeing with you? Are you kidding me?

Notice the question marks.

I have argued with some hard headed religious people on other forums, but you are pretty far up there on the list of people who just plain won't consider for a moment they are wrong whilst being chastised.

I can see you are so soaked up in your own self righteous pride right now and this will most likely just bounce right off, but it needed to be said.

Good day, and judging by your rather extremist posts, I rather don't wish to confront you in the future so I am unfortunately going to place you on my ignore list.

Yet again, good day.

Now that you feel you've gotten 8 threads' worth of final says, you can finally let go and move on. My points stand.