Stop Blowing My Mind!

[MovieBob]

Luckily, the current and upcoming class of comics creators seem to get it, most recently and notoriously, Darwyn "stop catering to the perverted needs of 45 year old men" Cooke [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgMZl0FJsx4], but also the Marvel Adventures line,

Ugh, that Darwyn Cooke quote KILLS me every damn time. He's 100% fist-pumping hell-yes spot-on about EVERYTHING... and then he goes and lumps having a character be gay in with all the "perverted stuff" - as though a comic hero being a homosexual is "right up there" with rape, Batman feeding a kid rats, and all the other stuff he was on about.

Every time I'm just... "Oh, damn it Darwyn - why'd you have to go and be a douche about it?"

 

[The Stonker]

Isn't The Expendables as much as a geek movie as Scott Pilgrim VS. The World?

Sorry I need to defend this movie and say.
Fuck you.
The expendables is a cliché action movie with B rated actors, even the explosions aren't that nice.
While Scott Pilgrim is creative and actually focuses on something except for explosions.
Really don't put Scott Pilgrim and The expendables in the same room, why? Because the expendables is a movie for the masses, while Scott can be enjoyed by everyone and the geek will understand more of the jokes.
But you get the point.

 

[Prophetic Heresy]

Is it really fair to say that the things we enjoy are somehow more intelligent than what other people enjoy? I understand sticking up for your team, but I'm still trying to hold on to my last sliver of hope that our geeky culture won't have any snobs in it. It has been very difficult.

 

[Falseprophet]

Ugh, that Darwyn Cooke quote KILLS me every damn time. He's 100% fist-pumping hell-yes spot-on about EVERYTHING... and then he goes and lumps having a character be gay in with all the "perverted stuff" - as though a comic hero being a homosexual is "right up there" with rape, Batman feeding a kid rats, and all the other stuff he was on about.

Every time I'm just... "Oh, damn it Darwyn - why'd you have to go and be a douche about it?"

I know that part rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but this article [http://nerdgirlpinups.com/article/129] gives it some perspective (it did for me, anyway). In short: it's not that being gay is "perverted stuff", it's using shameless lipstick lesbian exploitation to pander to horny old farts that is. I don't think the "new gay kid in school" storyline currently running in Archie Comics qualifies as "perverse" by any stretch of the imagination, for example. Cooke, in all fairness, could have contextualized his statement much better.

 

[Cousin_IT]

Problem with movies made for geeks, is most of the geeks wait for the DVD to come out.

 

[Marowit]

If I had to say one reason 'geek-chic' is having a back lash is because it no longer 'indie' or 'different.' It's cool to be a geek, and yes, it was awesome - hipster culture is almost completely merged with geek-chic now.

The thing you leave out in your essay is that life is also cyclical. I would be willing to bet that geekdom will decline, and be more like how it was in the 80's and early 90's. Biceps will be in, glasses will be out. But, then the world will continue to turn, and all those geeks and nerds growing up treading in the sea of testosterone will come into adulthood and being a geek will be cool again - just as a lot of the kids who've grown up during the 'geek boom' are the bicep fetishist moving into the industries (whether it be gaming or movies), and purchasing goods.

fun read.

edit - totally agree with the poster above me. I know I'm waiting for Scott Pilgrim to come out on DvD (being a nerd it's a simple cost/benefit ratio - plus I love my couch).

 

[Robyrt]

Frankly, the comic book movie went bust when it started paying more attention to the source material and the fans. It's no accident that the most successful of the genre - Batman, Iron Man, X-Men, Spiderman, The Incredibles - have little or no relation to the comics beyond a solid understanding of the concept. Attempts to introduce "fan favorite" characters into sequels inevitably turn the movie into a bloated mess.

That doesn't explain Scott Pilgrim on its own, though. I blame terrible marketing for that one - the trailer is just awful.

 

[MovieBob]

I know that part rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but this article [http://nerdgirlpinups.com/article/129] gives it some perspective (it did for me, anyway). In short: it's not that being gay is "perverted stuff", it's using shameless lipstick lesbian exploitation to pander to horny old farts that is.

I get that he was probably taken out of context, but the fact that it's on his off-the-cuff "list" AT ALL doesn't say nice things about where his head is at in regards to the subject either way. If nothing else, it implies that his "default reaction" to lesbianism is to regard it as a fetish for straight men rather than as a legitimate lifestyle for millions of actual women.

Yes, fine, even the most well-intentioned stories about gay women in comics are either created or executed with at least ONE eye on a straight male audience that wants to see such-and-such hot heroines "with eachother;" but I don't see how that necessarily devalues it automatically as a concept. Hell, not for nothing but SURELY there are gay women reading comics who appreciate such things on much the same level, no? When deny them the chance to see such stories, and writers to write them, because it's also going to be enjoyed by pervy dweebs?

 

[FrueDestruction]

"We've had enough. Stop it. Stop blurring the genre lines. Stop expanding the reference pool. Stop growing beyond the constraints of reality. Stop asking us to think. Stop blowing our minds!"
Y'know, I'm really not sure that this line of logic is in any way valid. Quite amusing really, considering your critique of Hollywood there Bob. Just because something is geeky doesn't make it smart. Or better. Or more "mind-blowing". It just makes it geeky. Traditional geek-mediums are just mediums. Mixing genres is just a way of presenting a story, it has absolutely no bearing on what is presented.

Also, please shut the fuck up about Scott Pilgrim. It's funny, enjoyable, and a good comic. It's really not that significant. Ditto for things with lesbians in them being automatically better. Save that for the privacy of your own hand, please.

 

[Falseprophet]

I get that he was probably taken out of context, but the fact that it's on his off-the-cuff "list" AT ALL doesn't say nice things about where his head is at in regards to the subject either way. If nothing else, it implies that his "default reaction" to lesbianism is to regard it as a fetish for straight men rather than as a legitimate lifestyle for millions of actual women.

Yes, fine, even the most well-intentioned stories about gay women in comics are either created or executed with at least ONE eye on a straight male audience that wants to see such-and-such hot heroines "with eachother;" but I don't see how that necessarily devalues it automatically as a concept. Hell, not for nothing but SURELY there are gay women reading comics who appreciate such things on much the same level, no? When deny them the chance to see such stories, and writers to write them, because it's also going to be enjoyed by pervy dweebs?

I was going to respond by noting how Neil Gaiman handled a lesbian relationship in the pages of Sandman vs. Jim Lee, Brandon Choi and J. Scott Campbell's handling of a lesbian character in Gen13 around the same time. But then I remembered that the Gen13 guys got as many--if not more--letters of thanks and support as Gaiman at the time. There's probably something to be said for "mainstream pandering, but ultimately positive portrayal" vs. "well-written, realistic and fair but with fringe appeal".

So I'll concede the point. Keep up the good work, Bob!

 

[Devin Parker]

Is it really fair to say that the things we enjoy are somehow more intelligent than what other people enjoy? I understand sticking up for your team, but I'm still trying to hold on to my last sliver of hope that our geeky culture won't have any snobs in it. It has been very difficult.

I'm with you on this. The implication seems to be that "geek movies" are more intelligent than "mainstream movies", which is patently untrue. MovieBob's suggestion that the majority of the filmgoing audience is saying "Stop blowing our minds!" when they don't show up to see "Scott Pilgrim" reeks of elitist narcissism. Maybe they just don't think that Super Mario Brothers, superhero comics and grindhouse remakes are really that relevant to them. (And that's not even beginning to go into the issues with political message movies, which, let's face it, are usually more one-sided and propagandistic than they ever are mind-expanding.)

Sadly, I've seen at least as many snobs in the geek culture as I've seen in the mainstream. I know we all dreamed it would be different when we were on the bottom of the totem pole in high school, but geeks are every bit as susceptible to chest-puffing as any jock or prom queen.

 

[JJMUG]

Isn't The Expendables as much as a geek movie as Scott Pilgrim VS. The World?

Being that Scott Pilgrim was a hipster mover, about a hipster, with hipster friends, and hipster love interests then yes just as Geeky. People need o realize that a video game reference does not a geek movie make.

 

[LunarTick]

Hopefully the geek boom will last long enough to get At the Mountains of Madness made. After I finally get a class-A Lovecraft story on the big screen, I'll be happy.

Yes, that would be perfect.
In the meantime some Germans are doing "The colur out of space":die Farbe [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0lRP-00BgI&feature=related]. I'm not sure about this one. I get the feeling from the trailer that the acting is a bit wooden, setting looks nice though.
And ofcourse the HPLHS are doing The Whisperer in Darkness [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQkos7WTHjg&feature=related]. I have high expectations about the latter, I enjoyed their rendition of The Call of Cthulhu.

But, anyway I'm hoping nerdfilms will continue to hit silver screens a bit longer.

 

[MovieBob]

There's probably something to be said for "mainstream pandering, but ultimately positive portrayal" vs. "well-written, realistic and fair but with fringe appeal".

So I'll concede the point. Keep up the good work, Bob!

Nah, I dunno that there's any need to "concede" anything. It's a complicated dynamic.

The original creators of "Xena" said that they dropped broad implications of 'gay' subtext into the show because it was just 'what you do' in self-aware, just-for-fun fantasy/action material involving amazonian heroines. When it got back to them later that the show had developed a HUGE lesbian following who'd adopted the characters as non-ironic icons, they opted to start pushing the envelope with it. "For the boys" exploitation turns "for the greater good" character development - happens more often with more causes than anyone wants to admit. How many men, in the 1960s, became suddenly "cool" with Feminism because Feminist women seemed more 'fun' and sexually/personally outgoing?

 

[The Stonker]

Isn't The Expendables as much as a geek movie as Scott Pilgrim VS. The World?

Sorry I need to defend this movie and say.
Fuck you.
The expendables is a cliché action movie with B rated actors, even the explosions aren't that nice.
While Scott Pilgrim is creative and actually focuses on something except for explosions.
Really don't put Scott Pilgrim and The expendables in the same room, why? Because the expendables is a movie for the masses, while Scott can be enjoyed by everyone and the geek will understand more of the jokes.
But you get the point.

Did I said that the Expendables was as good or better than Scott Pilgrim? I believe I didn't.

No you didn't!
But I defend everything that is geeky and nothing that terrible can go into geekdom.
THE MIGHTY DUCK HAS SPOKEN!

 

[RebelRising]

You know who else thinks that Life is Conflict and the basis for all civilization: Fascists. I hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but the plain and simple truth is that Mussolini and Hitler lived by that mantra, and since it's not healthy for entire societies, it shouldn't work for individuals. That's a terribly damaged standard by which to interact with others.

Anyways, I can't be the only one who's not particularly fussed about geek culture. I'm into video-games and I like the occasional superhero, but it has never really endeared itself to me as a whole. And since most of Geek culture involves explosions, hot chicks, and mangled science, wouldn't the vast majority of blockbuster cinema already appeal strongly to geeks? Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Doctor Strange movie?

Pardon me while I spend the next few hours drooling over the mere idea.