Stop Blowing My Mind!

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370999

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May 17, 2010
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In fairness, most moviegoers are profoundly stupid.
We differ here as most movie goers are IMHO of average intelligence. If you have some intelligence test that contradicts that I will revise my opinion.

Those people are pretentious morons. They were under the impression that claiming to dislike something everyone else liked would make them look clever or in possession of some esoteric film based knowledge. Iron Man is a great movie, whether someone likes it or not. End of discussion.
Not sure about that, the film possibly just didn' appeal to them kinda like how the Expendable didn't appeal to others. Seeing as we lack any mathmatical formula to determine a great movie we are stuck with using the consensus position which is not always optinium.

Aye, Dublin indeed. I only mentioned I live in Europe as American and European society are completely different. We don't have any jocks here, our schools are not segregated into different factions like 'nerds' or 'preps' or anything like that. I suppose it would be accurate to say that over here we'd have people into dance/rap music(scumbags), indie music (indieheads) and metal(goths & Metalheads). And I hate them all!
I am Irish as well ( A longford man) however this division is not what I am familiar with, though that is possibly due to Longford being more Bohemian then where I live. This triablism is not what I am familiar with.
 

teknoarcanist

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Jun 9, 2008
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Bob, I know you appreciated Watchmen's effort, and so did I, but let's be honest: it was a bad movie. It was EXACTLY the kind of cerebral story that should have warranted someone the POLAR OPPOSITE of Zack Synder as director. Think about it.

Seriously.

Ask yourself how the fuck he turned WATCHMEN into a Superhero action movie.

The acting was terrible on all fronts but Jackie Earl Haley -- and much like the prequel Star Wars movies, I can't help but notice that a lot of these actors are good in other roles; so, again, the director is to be blamed.

Just imagine how brilliant Watchmen could have been in hands of (sigh, yes, going here) Nolan. Or Robert Rodriguez. Or Tarantino. Imagine Watchmen by SCORCESE; fuckin A! That's what you could have had. That's what you should have EXPECTED.

And now remember what you got: a stilted, bloated, poorly-acted, far-too-visually-dominated crack-fest adaptation of a very slowly-paced graphic novel, whose only saving graces were the intelligent themes and ideas shining through from the source material, and a pitch-perfect script by David Hayter.

I liked 300. You liked 300. We all admit Snyder's got a visual eye--and yes, I'm sure he's one of "us". But Watchmen was terrible, and it's one of the most perfect examples of why you don't let a fanboy get too close to the object of his adoration: because he can't grant himself the objective distance necessary to ensure that what comes out in the end is of good quality.

So let's stop with the self-righteous 'step too far into my realm' melodrama already. It's not the masterpiece-that-didn't-make-it. It's not the Superhero Fight Club. Nobody's going to look back in twenty years and point to Watchmen as a cinematic touchstone. Get over it.




----------------

Also: Scott Pilgrim failed financially because they marketed it like a 'Michael Cera movie'. Without googling it, it was almost impossible to tell about its video-game themes or aesthetic, and WHY oh WHY did they not HAMMER HOME, 'From the director of Shaun of the Dead'?? I know among MY group of friends, I had to drag everyone kicking and screaming (though we all had a blast) and I imagine it'll do well on DVD.
 

linkzeldi

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Jun 30, 2010
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As long as Christopher Nolan continues to make batman films, nerd culture on the silver screen will thrive.
 

Chunkyfudgelover

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Mar 5, 2009
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370999 said:
We differ here as most movie goers are IMHO of average intelligence. If you have some intelligence test that contradicts that I will revise my opinion.
You have great faith in the movie going public I must say! Well, of course many an acute mind visits the cinema from time to time but when you take into account the mass of cretins who also go the average is brought down a fair amount. I certainly can't produce an official tally of their intelligence so my only source would be that I worked in a cinema for a year and I love going to the cinema myself! Sturgeon's law must also come into the equation I'm sure you'll agree.

Not sure about that, the film possibly just didn' appeal to them kinda like how the Expendable didn't appeal to others. Seeing as we lack any mathmatical formula to determine a great movie we are stuck with using the consensus position which is not always optinium.
Apologies, when you mentioned these people referred to Iron Man as 'fast food cinema' I got the impression they thought it was beneath them, which certainly seems pretentious. When a film so universally loved is disliked by an individual they tend to be only saying this to make you think they know something you don't. Of course if they just didn't like it then that's fair enough, albeit a shame. The Expendables was a terribly made movie regardless of who liked it. To use a musical analogy... U2 the band. Suppose I hated them. It matters not, they make good music whether I like it or otherwise!

I am Irish as well ( A longford man) however this division is not what I am familiar with, though that is possibly due to Longford being more Bohemian then where I live.
I guess it varies from school to school and town to town. Such labels were once based on individual groups. The existence of these labels led to people augmenting their appearance, musical taste, personalities and even cigarette brands to better suit the 'requirements' of the group they wish to assimilate into. Metalheads will grow their hair to become 'more metal'. Emos will all of a sudden start reading Twilight novels and collecting Tim Burton crap all in the hopes of appearing 'more emo'. Accordingly self-proclaimed 'indieheads' will wear vintage tees, skinny fit jeans, all of a sudden turn vegan and watch 'quirky' films. That is why Juno was 'so cool' and had a Kimya Dawson soundtrack. That is why Nick & Norah was soaked in Indie essence. It's also why the indie comic Scott Pilgrim was chosen to be made into a movie. It was marketed deftly to these cretins. The industry thrives on these credulous slaves.

This triablism is not what I am familiar with.
I envy you!
 

The Big Eye

Truth-seeking Tail-chaser
Aug 19, 2009
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This may sound harsh, but it really doesn't matter to me if the geek trend continues. What I want to see from the film industry is thought-provoking, sincerely-told stories with artistic merit and high entertainment value.
But I know that instances of any of these things are few and far between, and that's not likely to change anytime soon because Hollywood does not work that way. Like all the other people who've had their hearts broken by mass media, the geeks are just going to have to take what they can get.
 

Pariahwulfen

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Mar 23, 2010
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Abanic said:
Anyone have any ideas?
Even though I'm one of those who agree with you I'm going to take a stab at it.
While both movies follow the The path to Hell is paved with Good Intentions shtick, the way that they approach them is entirely different.
With Batman, his previous choice to spare his love interest the possibility of becoming a retaliatory target has pushed her into the arms of another man, thus making her a target and leading to her death anyway. Also, despite the fact that at the end of the film he becomes the scape goat to save the name of another, it was a conscious decision. Said decision also leads to batman becoming hunted and kills his name for the general public. However as Bruce Wayne he suffers none of the associated backlash with his actions.

Now for Watchmen, you have a super hero who's actual identity is known to the world and has been used to make him very wealthy. Prior to the movie he had embarked down a path that would lead to the deaths of millions of innocent people in a bid to create world peace. During the movie he ends up murdering a fellow hero, who also had ties to the CIA and was rather morbid in his own past. Led to himself being hunted by a sociopathic hero (the movie really did not do Rorschach justice as a character.) that when it has become apparent, gives all of his known information to a right winged political publication......you know what for this I'm just going to say that it's the complexity of the characters and the implication that instead of saving the world from itself, Ozymandias simply set in motion the final pieces for nuclear Armageddon, even if most of the implications from this angle of the comic were removed from the movie itself.
 

DocBalance

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Nov 9, 2009
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Al Gore has nothing to offer the nerd community, nor is he anywhere the most influential non-elected political force. That's about as much of a joke as his "global warming" farce is.

I think you are wrong on this one, Bob. Scott Pilgrim, Watchmen, and Kickass are all very, very geek-centric, but there is still dissent about whether they are any good. I for one consider Scott Pilgrim to be drivel, and when I heard the movie was coming out the only thing I felt was a resounding "meh". I'd never, ever heard of Kickass before the movie, and Watchmen, while good, was poorly translated between media forms. To me, these don't appeal at all to the mass market, not just to "the average movie-goer", but to the nerd community in general. These aren't "classics." They sure aren't Batman, or Iron Man. You can attribute Iron Man's success to Robert Downey Jr. if you want, and I have no doubts that he was a major player in that respect, but you also have to remember that this was one of his break-out films. While he was a great actor before Iron Man, he was by no means a household name. I consider myself somewhat movie-literate, and the only thing I recognized him from was U.S. Marshals, and Shaggy Dog, both of which he did very well in. Now, look at him: He's been Iron Man, he's been Sherlock Holmes, he's scheduled to played Edgar. Mother-Loving. Poe. Iron Man re-launched his career.

Geek Movies are not dying, friend. They are just beginning. On a sidenote to all of you, not just Bob: Can we stop with the Blind-Side jokes? It was a decent movie, despite what you want to think about the message. Get over it already, it is in no way responsible for any perceived wrongs in the movie industry. Sheesh.
 

RDubayoo

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Sep 11, 2008
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Oh dear. Leftism, hooo!

Our most influential non-elected political figure? Al Gore.
He was. Then the Climate Research Unit scandal happened, showing that the premise for man-made global warming is pure bunk. They fabricated their research and then destroyed it so that no one would be able to tell what they did. So, nowadays Gore has nothing except emotion, peer pressure, and ignorance to propel his agenda (which will probably be demonstrated by responses to this post, i.e., "HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS NOT REAL WHAT ARE YOU DUMMMMB!? UR REDUMBLICAN!").

Then there's the masseuse thing, that must be pretty embarrassing, even if the charges aren't true.

President Obama? Compared to hard-livin' frat guys like Clinton or Bush II, he's probably as close to the nerd end of the human spectrum of any U.S. President ever.
There's a lot of things I could call Obama. Apathetic. Cold-hearted. Marxist. Condescending. Incompetent. Fraud. But geeky? No.

Anyway, politics aside, what will really kill geek movies in the future is that a lot of them are terrible. Hollywood's formula thus far, in regards to a "geeky" franchise, is to hand it to people who don't understand it, give them a special effects budget equal to Obama's deficit (ok, I guess I wasn't done with politics after all), then cough something out. The result has been movies like Michael Bay's Transformers movies and the new Clash of the Titans flick, mediocre films scraping by only due to their special effects. THAT is the sort of unfulfilling garbage which will really turn audiences off after a while.

OTOH, it was nice to see ROTF suggest that President Obama would make a futile attempt to try and negotiate with Megatron. Oops, there I go again! But you know Obama totally would, though, which is why it's hilarious.
 

The Big Eye

Truth-seeking Tail-chaser
Aug 19, 2009
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RDubayoo said:
Oh dear. Leftism, hooo!

Our most influential non-elected political figure? Al Gore.
He was. Then the Climate Research Unit scandal happened, showing that the premise for man-made global warming is pure bunk. They fabricated their research and then destroyed it so that no one would be able to tell what they did. So, nowadays Gore has nothing except emotion, peer pressure, and ignorance to propel his agenda (which will probably be demonstrated by responses to this post, i.e., "HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS NOT REAL WHAT ARE YOU DUMMMMB!? UR REDUMBLICAN!").
Don't entirely disagree with you, but do some research on that scandal bud. The leaked documents contained communications between scientists regarding climate change research. On the whole, it didn't prove sh!t, but that didn't matter. Once they were leaked to the public, no-one bothered to read them, because everyone already "knew" what they said.

People are dumb.
 

Maldeus

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Mar 24, 2009
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I want to state for the record that when I said the science on climate was undecided, I meant it. It's undecided and there's not enough evidence for either side to say the science backs them up to the exclusion of the other side.

And this is completely off-topic, because everything I had to say about the article I said in my last post. Oh, well.
 

pearsmb06

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Nov 11, 2009
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The message here seems to be less that geeky films are failing and more that niche geeky films are failing. Yes, Tron: Legacy will likely do terribly but the next Batman and Star Trek films will make absolutely ludicrous amounts of money.

As long as huge moneymakers like those are around, geekdom will remain in movie-making for a long time to come.
 

Redd the Sock

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Apr 14, 2010
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I've heard it said that a geek is someone that does to excess what a normal person does casualy. As such, geek culture and non-geek culture are usually at odds. A geek will look at a premis, cast list, director and overall hype and use that to decide to go see a movie or not, while a normal person will go "Michael Cera....pass, Stalone blowing shit up...cool."

Let's make one thing clear, at leas some of the Dark Knights success has to come with that fact it's friggin' Batman: a household name practically worldwide. The fact it came out well, and somewaht inteligent was a bonus that brought a lot of people back, but that might not have happened with a less rocognizable character or an original. (Hollywood's prone to this, like how most of the marketing for inception pimped it as by the director of the Dark Knight.) And I say somewhat inteligent because while well told, it was just a basic hero / villan story that made the afterschhol special point of there being good and evil in everybody to some degree. Good guy won, no one leaves the theatre uncomfortable.

Watchmen on the other hand wasn't well known outside of comic and other geek circles meaning a lot of people would pass it over. Those that took the plunge got a very nihlistic piece without clear cut heroes, villans, or morals.

But back to point, as much as geek cutlre has seen some success, it's been the more recognizable / watered down have have been the sucesses. People saw Lord of the Rings because it was Lord of the Rings, and if it was released as say, Dragonlance, a lot of it's sales would have been nonexistant. Iron Man may be geeky, buy it was also very audience friendly such that a non-geek would mistake it for just that year's sci-fi blockbuster attempt (the way no one knew Men in Black was a comic book first.) If we're just riding the coat tails of the popular crowd, the current spread of geek culture will end.

Or not. I was taught the theory was less survival of the fittest, and more survival of the most adaptable to their environment. As much as we'd like to drag normal people to geekdom, it won't happen overnight if at all, so we might need to make sure our geek movies are, like Dark Knight and Iron Man, made as much for the normals as they are for us, and more importantly, marketed to the normals. You keep hearing it. Scott Pilgrim missed it's marketng as people mistook it for a kids movie. Kick-Ass looked rather dopey in it's ad to the point of loking like a parody. They tried to appeal purely to the geek culture, and it failed as these indy projects really don't have the fanbase they seem. I know you know this. One of your game overthinker videos said the same thing about needing to apeal to the casual gamer market, and it's no different for films. Like I said, these aren't people that are going to look deeply into any project presented to them, and we may need to lead them in better directions a step at a time while not losing aspects that appeal to them.

As for Tron, I think the 3D will at least make sure it doesn't totally flop.
 

gurall200

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Apr 14, 2009
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The watchmen is more intelligent and grittier then batman, hell no, it was adapted with all the mindset of a 13 year old whom favorite movie is 300, anything intelligent was thrown out, wasn't bad, but The Dark Knight was a much better film.

OT: it's too be expected honestly, people are eventually going to get tired of superhero movies and all things geeky (or micheal sera), in about 20 years it will come back and then go away after a few years, just like 3D.
 

Jjkaybomb

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Nov 22, 2009
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Chunkyfudgelover said:
You have great faith in the movie going public I must say! Well, of course many an acute mind visits the cinema from time to time but when you take into account the mass of cretins who also go the average is brought down a fair amount. I certainly can't produce an official tally of their intelligence so my only source would be that I worked in a cinema for a year and I love going to the cinema myself! Sturgeon's law must also come into the equation I'm sure you'll agree.
Anybody can look at any group of people and giggle about what a bunch of what a bunch of mindless nincompoops they are, or call them a sheep blob, or whatever. Most the people have far more complicated reasons to see a movie than "herpderp I'm a dummy!!". Some people have worked long and hard and just want to kick back, the movie doesnt matter. Maybe they figure it'll be decent because its well-funded. Moviebob even mentioned a few reasons, like "this is something my friends and I comprimised to see." Hell, I know an incredibly intelligent adult who goes to dumb movies just to sleep through them, and another who watches them to feel smarter than the ninmcompoops who enjoy these kinds of movies.
Things are much more complicated than they seem. I'm sure the "average movie goer" would love a wonderful, thought provoking film if they were in the right mood. But the bland, big budgeted peice of horse pucky succeeds because its vauge and broad audience strokes can draw in a huge variety of different reasons to go see it.
 

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
Legacy
May 13, 2009
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Holy Smoke! I had no idea Inception did so well. I knew it did good, but:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=inception.htm

Back on topic.

A lot of you have written that as long as there's money to be made, geek culture will thrive. True. But, heck, I'm seeing a lot of genres descend into mediocrity or worse... and hollywood, bereft of ideas is STILL churning out Jason movies, Nightmare on Elm Street, Prom Night, etc.

So Geek Culture's future is assured.

Here's the difficult discussion coming: Much of Hollywood film making is a financial crap shoot. I have no idea why Transformers made so much money but GI Joe made substantially less. I thought Titanic sounded like the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time. I thought "The Kids Are All Right." was very interesting and wish it did better.

It's a crap shoot. As it stands, Watchmen did pretty freaking well. A Box Office disappointment, sure. They were hoping for another 300 level hit. That's like trying to win the lottery consistently.

But a movie that cost $130 mil to make and makes 180 world wide is not going to frighten investors away.

Anyone know what the biggest budget bomb of the last 10 years was? I dunno, I'm asking. I promise you, it wasn't Watchmen.

The real thing to worry about is Hwood beating this thing into the ground with mediocrity. Iron Man 2 was fun enough, but if I knew I would feel about it as I did, I sure wouldn't have run out to the theater to see it.

Hwood is going to have the same problem with geek culture that it has with any genre: maintaining quality while dealing with the terror that it is all such a crap shoot.
 

Nomanslander

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Feb 21, 2009
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Kollega said:
I have never really understood all the fuss about "the impending end of geek films" Moviebob constantly brings up.
That's because MovieBob is living in a world of this own, but to his defense, so are we all.

As a softcore trekkie, I loved the last Star Trek movie even for all it's silliness, and I hated Scott Pilgrim because it reminded be of all the mid 90 hipster garbage I was forced to grow up with.

(of course most of the mid 90s hipster flicks were also slasher movies, so if only Jason Voorhees had made an appearance in Scott P Vs. World and slaughtered the fucking lot of them I would have been a happy camper)

There's always going to be difference of opinion, and I'd hate, I'd absolutely would fucking hate to see Robin in the next Batman movie . But I know Moviebob would feel the complete opposite.

....

You know, I think we'd all benefit if we could just be a little more open minded about things, I mean hell, Robin was actually handled pretty well in the animated series from what I remember...so!


Maybe, The Expendables wasn't such a bad movie after all, at least for some. I mean at least we can all agree Rambo 4 was fucking awesome, can we?

=P