Student commits suicide after school refuses to do anything about bullying
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Did they refuse, or were they just pretty much powerless, like every other school? I know the first response after a tragedy like this is to blame the school for not having stopped it, but what can a school actually do against it that won't just paint an even bigger target on the victim?
Bullying is one of those issues for which there is no real solution, other than straight-up skipping or transfering schools (if we're talking bullying at school).
Bullying is one of those issues for which there is no real solution, other than straight-up skipping or transfering schools (if we're talking bullying at school).
Unfortunately, this would seem to be the norm. Schools can not or will not do much about bullying, and I'd say it's at least partly the latter.
No, there are ways to deal with it. Its called punishing the bullies, and just the bullies. Its having the parents take responsibility for their kids. Its teaching kids to respect each other with basic dignity.Casual Shinji said:
My US History teacher didn't just let kids be bullies, nor was he coy about it. But he was the teacher in charge of the Gay-Straight Alliance and the Football coach, and a great teacher and person, so ya know, a rarity.
Eventually my principal dealt with another atleast somewhat. Took me throwing a textbook at my bully and getting into a fight, but even just them being like "Hey, you were clearly being a bully, stop it" managed to get him off my back, even if I also had detention for a week.
I mean, there were still plenty of others, but the ones actually dealt with actually stopped, go figure.
Again though, how is that not going to paint an even bigger target on the bully victim? I know that when I was bullied I didn't want the school to call attention to my being bullied by punishing the bullies for bullying me. That would just wind them up even more and take their anger out on me. And make me look like an even bigger "loser" in the process.Saelune said:
I'm not saying schools shouldn't even bother, but it's a difficult thing to solve. Unless the bullying involves physical beatings there's not that many definitive actions a school can take. You can't exactly punish people for ignoring or not wanting to hang around with someone, which seemed to be the biggest issue with this kid.
I would say they probably didn't give a fuck. My teachers thought it was hilarious. I'd hear them joking about it in the hallway when they thought no one was around. They'd deliver a slap on the wrist while actively encouraging it. In their mind it was twisted up in some weird misguided sense of machismo. Most of them had probably behaved that way as well. After all, boys will be boys, and we all know how cruel girls can be. I learned real quick that you better learn to take care of yourself, because no one else has your back. I about had a serious throw down with somebody in the middle of the cafeteria who were tormenting my friend, and everybody was watching, including the faculty. No body did anything until a couple of guys from FCA rushed in and separated us. That was probably a good thing since I was outnumbered 3-1, and they were gearing up to kick my ass.Casual Shinji said:
There can be no doubt the system is broken. It's designed to make life easier for the teachers, not the students. Anyone who takes part in a fight will be punished, regardless of who started the altercation. I suppose this makes sense on paper, since a faculty member can't know for sure who actually started the fight, but what it actually does is discourage the Victim from defending himself. Since there was no fight the faculty can't be bothered to handle the situation, and the perpetrator is now encouraged to continue the abuse. Even if a victim does defend himself, he'll enjoy equal punishment with the bully. Typically the type of people who bully don't give a fuck about being a suspended a few days, but it can have a negative impact on someone who is studious. When I was in school they always told me that, if someone were suspended from school for a fight, then their teachers would automatically fail them for every assignment they had during that period. Depending on when this happened, they said this would affect your GPA, which a thug or pampered athlete couldn't care less about. That claim was certainly bullshit, but when you're in middle school you believe it. I was fortunate to have parents who taught me from a young age to always defend myself, no matter what the consequences were. They encouraged me fight if I ever needed to, and to let them handle whatever happened afterward. This was a godsend compared to the many educators and other parents who told you never to defend yourself, but who had no intention of addressing the problem themselves. There's a certain psychological conditioning that creates an environment of victims and abusers, and while I agree that part of it is certainly systematic, I can guarantee you that most educators in my experience don't give a fuck. It's systematic because they don't give a fuck.
It reminds me of how awful some schools used to be. The schools that Pink Floyd would sing about, or that C.S. Lewis would write about in his autobiography. Those schools encouraged abuse to. C.S. Lewis nearly committed suicide due to the abuse. He didn't do to well in class either. These were deeply intelligent men, but ones grades depend on so much more then how smart you are. The system was built to grind you into a kind of powder, and crush your free will. Pink Floyd wasn't exaggerating by much when they showed images of children being fed into a meat grinder. Corporal punishment was quite common, especially at boys schools, and there was a strange hierarchy to the ways students behaved. This sometimes led to an environment of sexual abnormality. C.S. Lewis in particular write about the many homosexual relationships he saw. Unhealthy ones. Ones that weren't based on love, but on power and authority and control. Then the First World War came, and most of the students were thrown from one meat grinder into another. It really comes across as hellish. This may seem like a tangent, but the point I'm trying to make is that if schools like that once existed, and society's have already improved them, then there's no reason we can't improve them again. We just need to understand the complex psychology that creates these negative environments.
Edit: and of course it was a private catholic school. Slightly different from the public school system, but the same problem still apply, and are often times much worse.
It is as simple as the school officials will get into shit, probably fired, for doing anything because the bullies parents will have a complete fit about it.
It is absolutely ridiculous. There needs to be a protection for teachers and officials who do things to stop bullies. The school management needs to grow a pair and do what is right. Nothing will change as long as bullying behaviour is rewarded with indifference or apathy.
If parents of bullies come in and try to get the school in shit, then the schools need to put their foot down and say "no, this happened, and so your child is a safety risk.". Just like how children without vaccinations are barred from schools, we need to put a hard stance on this thing.
Allow the kids to come back if they appear to have been rehabilitated (because empathy is the best policy). Hopefully, bullying behaviour would eventually decrease and become non existent as the bully has their own kids and imparts good parenting on them. You can't really change the bullies parents, so focus on the future generations to have a better, more empathetic world view.
Just like how countries like (I think) Denmark and Norway have really empathetic prison systems, which focus on rehab and not punishment, and look how their recidivism rates are so low compared to punishment oriented prisons in other countries.
It is absolutely ridiculous. There needs to be a protection for teachers and officials who do things to stop bullies. The school management needs to grow a pair and do what is right. Nothing will change as long as bullying behaviour is rewarded with indifference or apathy.
If parents of bullies come in and try to get the school in shit, then the schools need to put their foot down and say "no, this happened, and so your child is a safety risk.". Just like how children without vaccinations are barred from schools, we need to put a hard stance on this thing.
Allow the kids to come back if they appear to have been rehabilitated (because empathy is the best policy). Hopefully, bullying behaviour would eventually decrease and become non existent as the bully has their own kids and imparts good parenting on them. You can't really change the bullies parents, so focus on the future generations to have a better, more empathetic world view.
Just like how countries like (I think) Denmark and Norway have really empathetic prison systems, which focus on rehab and not punishment, and look how their recidivism rates are so low compared to punishment oriented prisons in other countries.
You don't think the massively high rates of bullying and suicide the LGBT community faces might possibly have something to do with it?inu-kun said:
By continuing to step in. If the bully keeps bullying even after being told to stop, after being punished, the welfare of the victim is more important. And how is it escalating? Cause if it gets violent, there is police intervention. Assault shouldn't be excused just because its by kids in schools. If adults do it, people can get arrested.Casual Shinji said:
I would much rather the bully get help and become a decent human being, but if a decent person is forced to kill themselves if left unchecked, then better the bully get into massive trouble than the victim.
Ya know what being a loser is? Being friends with your bullies because you were so desperate to not be alone. Not being able to talk to anyone about your problems, and hiding yourself away in your room ever dealing with anything.
If you cant tell, this issue is very personal to me.
Even just knowing the adults have your back can really help. Knowing they are on your side, knowing you can talk to them. People like using the word safe space, but I don't think people actually know what a safe space is. A teacher's office/class who cares is a safe space, if you know they wont tolerate bullying, and wont make you feel worse for seeking help or being different. Just knowing you aren't alone can atleast give you some shred of confidence to endure a bit longer.
Is it the system that's broken or just humanity on a whole? I don't have experience with teachers who simply laughed it off and didn't give a fuck, just ones who were incompitent. But you throw a couple of hundred kids together in a building and with at best 20 or so adults to control the situation, and it's no surprise that it's going to get a tad savage. Kids in general are little shits toward eachother while they're growing up and trying to figure themselves out. And some kids are much less capable of dealing with "the law of the jungle" than others.Fox12 said:
I know that when I went from elementary to high school it was like I was suddenly dropped in a pit filled with hyenas, with nothing but a twig to defend myself. And I wasn't even that actively bullied, it was just the pressure of being locked in an environment filled with juvenile, hormon driven creatures.
We get it, humanity sucks. The thing is, governments, schools, and all of the rest of the fabric of civilization is designed to handle sucky humanity.Casual Shinji said:
It didn't. It says "Although no media reports or family members identified Fitzpatrick as LGBTQ, his 17-year-old sister told the New York Daily News he was ostracized."inu-kun said:
And it doesn't really matter if its for being this or that. He was bullied for being different, and that's enough. Its called empathy. Hell, I'm sure we all have being ostracized for being different. Sometimes for being gay, or trans, or black...but also perhaps for being a woman, or man, or too fat, too thin, a different religion, a different culture, a weird nose, a lisp, for liking something everyone doesn't, for not liking something everyone does.
People can easily relate to each other if they wanted to, but most don't want to.
I don't think it's human nature at all. This stuff doesn't happen in the real world partly because it's not tolerated, and partly because it's counterintuitive to the welfare of our species. Why else would this behavior suddenly cease the moment people enter college or the work force? It's not like people suddenly become sensible human beings when they turn 18. I work with people I used to get in fights with. We get along great.Casual Shinji said:
I think human behavior is partly dictated by their environment. There will always be people with bully like behavior, but we can create an environment that makes this behavior more or less likely to fester.
I'm not saying humanity sucks, just broken. Meaning it's not really possible to regulate human behavior as such that everyone is content with everyone.Caedite Eos said:
Bullying itself is something that can be vague. I mean, is ignoring someone bullying? Or name calling? Both of these are things we don't like and that hurt us if they happen to us, but it's things we all do. Because we all have our likes and dislikes, and that includes other people.
If I was just name called I'd probably be fine today. Except I've got scars all over me from the beatings I got growing up. And the schools going "I didn't see it so nothing happened". I'm now an wreck with PTSD, social anxiety and I wake up a lot of days just hating humanity.Casual Shinji said:
Well, I wouldn't say the behavior goes away, it just becomes less obnoxious and loud, since we grow up and become less obnoxious and loud. But even in the workplace people will still point at someone, laugh at them, or talk behind their back. I mean, when I see someone walking down the street that I find funny looking, and I'm with someone else, I generally call their attention to it and say something along the lines of 'Heh, look at that guy'.Fox12 said:
Human behavior is partly dictaded by their environment (quite a lot actually), but that environment itself is created by that same human behavior. You can't force everyone to get along, and you can't stop them from gravitating toward some people and not others. And that's the source of bullying, but it's also what makes us individuals.
Not everyone experiences the same type of bullying though. I for example was never systematically beaten up, but I did spend my first two years of high school feeling like a frightened animal due to how other students were treating me socially, as well as me just being horribly ill-equiped to everyday life. I was seeing a shrink and kids at school knew, so yeah... It got to the point where in my final year I simply cracked and had to leave.RaikuFA said:
If bullying was just this one thing, like physical violence, it'd be a lot easier to get a grip on, but there's many types. I'm sure I must've made some kids feel like shit too, not even being aware of it.
My school never did anything about my bully because he was the son of one of the teachers. So he got away with everything, because all the teachers thought he was mamma's perfect little bear. And he was the type of kid that would stab me with pencils, like bleeding and scars and the whole thing.
I can't tell you how many times I got into fights with him. I eventually kicked him so hard in the ribs they bruised, and he stopped after that.
Sometimes you really do have to fight back because adults won't help.
I can't tell you how many times I got into fights with him. I eventually kicked him so hard in the ribs they bruised, and he stopped after that.
Sometimes you really do have to fight back because adults won't help.