Suicide mission losses and their consequences in ME3, your thoughts?

[ecoho]

I just hope they don't pull a DA2 kinda move and go HEY LOOKS WHO ISN'T ACTUALLY DEAD EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY HAVE PERSONALLY BEHEADED HER.

I wonder how they'd try and justify that in the ME universe
Some kinda sneaky 'Miranda didn't die! She just looked like it! Or perhaps WE REBUILT [insert name here] TOO!

first Lilianna didnt die she feigned death! you know the ability that makes you look dead

ok ok all jokeing aside the mass effect people are really good at keeping people dead and to be fair to the dragon age people you have to try to kill lilianna and wyan though ill never know why youd want to........

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

Your OP is under the assumption that all of these characters will be present in ME 3. Now that the suicide mission is complete, the crew might go their separate ways. Zaaed would have reason to leave, as would Jack and Samara/Morinth. Legion (if alive and not in Cerberus hands) will likely return to the Geth...though I sincerely hope he's a squadmate from the beginning (or very near to), I mean you only get him for literally 2 missions if you want everyone to survive. Get him, do his loyalty mission, crew gets kidnapped, go beat the game.

That said I doubt there'll be THAT big of a difference in gameplay, most likely different conversations and perhaps different quests depending on who survived and who didn't. Otherwise your success in ME 3 would be dependant upon your success in ME 2. While that is an interesting theory to try, I somehow doubt that's what Bioware has done.

well i can tell you from what bioware has said about ME3 both jack and legion are in the game as the said Legion was in and said all love intrests that survived would be in the third game.

Ahhh, fair enough, I hadn't heard that bit of news yet. Well kick ass, Legion's coming back. As for Jack, I'm not certain she can be technically considered a "love" interest.

So yeah, perhaps Bioware does intend to bring back everyone who survived and replace the ones that didn't with new characters. Or maybe there's only going to be one or two new characters. My previous statement was based off the assumption that Bioware intended to add a bunch of new characters to the game. Perhaps that's the case if NO ONE survived, I just can't see how that'd be the case if everyone survived seeing as how the Normandy would be getting pretty damn crowded. Your crew in ME 2 was huge to begin with, I just can't imagine stuffing a bunch of newe crewe members onto your ship would work.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

Didn't lose a teammate, though I did lose Kelly (dunno if it's possible to save her and earn everyone's loyalty. If someone has done it, tell me how).

 

[Kahunaburger]

Apparently in the leak they get replaced with similar characters in their relevant story arcs. So if Garrus bites it, you get a mission with Shmarrus, and so on.

 

[Grygor]

Didn't lose a teammate, though I did lose Kelly (dunno if it's possible to save her and earn everyone's loyalty. If someone has done it, tell me how).

Simple - don't go to the derelict reaper until the last possible moment. Though this does have the side effect of making Legion usable for only two missions.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I think the problem would be the leader of the second team, because if it isnt Garrus, Jacob or Miranda the tech expert gets killed.

They also need to be loyal.

I made that mistake and it almost cost me legion.

See, I was planning on using Garrus as the fire team leader, then Miranda pretty much went "No! I'm the only viable leader here!!" And I replied "Ok, FINE".

And then legion died. ...And then I found out that the REASON he died was because Miranda was no longer loyal after I refused to take her side in that hissy fit she had with Jack (I'm sorry, but Miranda was WAY out of line.).

So I redid the mission and picked Garrus. And then no one died.

Although honestly, if Miranda or Zaeed died, I wouldn't have bothered to re-start. I don't care for either of them.

 

[Setrus]

I really want to see what happens if EVERYONE died on the suicide mission. I gotta do a crap runthrough...

I think you need a survivor for Shepard to survive...and I also think someone did it on youtube, seeing the consequences would be awesome. :-D

I'll be redoing the suicide mission, I think. I had no idea what was going on so I lost like 5 people (Thane from the start, Jacob, Jack, Miranda, and Grunt). I did actually redo a good part of the second stage just so I wouldn't lose Garrus, who I was romancing at the time. "Technically, any biotic can throw up a barrier and get you across! You'll be fine!" Yeah thanks, Miranda. Lying *****.

Ha! That's hillarious! Such a bad commander... ;-)

If Garrus and Tali die, you will be short an Infiltrator/Engineer squadmate to use.

Also, if you managed to get Chawkwas or Kelly killed, Chobot and Chloe will replace them, most of the other suicide mission squadmates will have a replacement in most cases

Well yes, obviously you'll be two squadmates short...unless they're replaced...do you have a solid information on that replacement thing? I'm curious...

I just hope they don't pull a DA2 kinda move and go HEY LOOKS WHO ISN'T ACTUALLY DEAD EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY HAVE PERSONALLY BEHEADED HER.

I wonder how they'd try and justify that in the ME universe
Some kinda sneaky 'Miranda didn't die! She just looked like it! Or perhaps WE REBUILT [insert name here] TOO!

That would really suck...how would any of them survive when they're being killed, then blown up on a space station surrounded by black holes? No, I have too much faith in the mass effect franchise to believe such a thing would happen.

Every former member of your squad will have a main quest associated with them. If they died, then that means that you can't get the optimal conclusion to their quest-line.

They vary in importance, though. For example, Jacob and Miranda's quests seem fairly inconsequential, whilst Mordin, Legion, and Wrex play much larger roles.

Ohhh...you know this for a fact then? And yes, I'm very much fishing for information.

Snip

Your OP is under the assumption that all of these characters will be present in ME 3. Now that the suicide mission is complete, the crew might go their separate ways. Zaaed would have reason to leave, as would Jack and Samara/Morinth. Legion (if alive and not in Cerberus hands) will likely return to the Geth...though I sincerely hope he's a squadmate from the beginning (or very near to), I mean you only get him for literally 2 missions if you want everyone to survive. Get him, do his loyalty mission, crew gets kidnapped, go beat the game.

That said I doubt there'll be THAT big of a difference in gameplay, most likely different conversations and perhaps different quests depending on who survived and who didn't. Otherwise your success in ME 3 would be dependant upon your success in ME 2. While that is an interesting theory to try, I somehow doubt that's what Bioware has done.

well i can tell you from what bioware has said about ME3 both jack and legion are in the game as the said Legion was in and said all love intrests that survived would be in the third game.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_effect_3 Indeed. Though I'm mostly just guessing on the love interests, fans would throw a fit if they didn't get to finish those in their third game.

Anyyyyway...I was mostly concerned about the political ramifications of lost squadmemember, or more precisely, how the loss of certain squadmates will affect the galaxy readiness versus the Reapers.
Arontala touches on this...that Wrex and Mordin are obviously very important...but I'm surprise Miranda, given her ties to Cerberus and all, isn't supposed to be important?

 

[Smiley Face]

Snip

Your OP is under the assumption that all of these characters will be present in ME 3. Now that the suicide mission is complete, the crew might go their separate ways. Zaaed would have reason to leave, as would Jack and Samara/Morinth. Legion (if alive and not in Cerberus hands) will likely return to the Geth...though I sincerely hope he's a squadmate from the beginning (or very near to), I mean you only get him for literally 2 missions if you want everyone to survive. Get him, do his loyalty mission, crew gets kidnapped, go beat the game.

That said I doubt there'll be THAT big of a difference in gameplay, most likely different conversations and perhaps different quests depending on who survived and who didn't. Otherwise your success in ME 3 would be dependant upon your success in ME 2. While that is an interesting theory to try, I somehow doubt that's what Bioware has done.

well i can tell you from what bioware has said about ME3 both jack and legion are in the game as the said Legion was in and said all love intrests that survived would be in the third game.

Ahhh, fair enough, I hadn't heard that bit of news yet. Well kick ass, Legion's coming back. As for Jack, I'm not certain she can be technically considered a "love" interest.

So yeah, perhaps Bioware does intend to bring back everyone who survived and replace the ones that didn't with new characters. Or maybe there's only going to be one or two new characters. My previous statement was based off the assumption that Bioware intended to add a bunch of new characters to the game. Perhaps that's the case if NO ONE survived, I just can't see how that'd be the case if everyone survived seeing as how the Normandy would be getting pretty damn crowded. Your crew in ME 2 was huge to begin with, I just can't imagine stuffing a bunch of new crew members onto your ship would work.

My thinking is that, even if/when the whole crew survives in ME2, they'll have some of them be vacant in 3 - while they need to add interesting new folks and keep mainstays, there also needs to be some variation - and otherwise the crew would get WAY too huge.

All possible crew-members we know of (Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Garrus, Tali, Wrex, Jacob, Miranda, Mordin, Jack, Grunt, Legion, Samara, Thane, Zaeed, Kasumi) number 15 possible returning crewmates. My guess (I've avoided most promotional stuff) is that there'll only be one Krogan party member, ZZaeed and Kasumi will have cameos, being DLC, and of the ME2 cast, they'll keep some and drop some, but I don't know. My guesses are Samara gets a cameo bit, quite possibly some of the other ME2 crowd as well (I'm hoping for the ones I didn't like, obviously).

 

[Erttheking]

I think that it was stated that if people died, some paths would be closed off while others would be opened.

 

[Supah]

100% Survival! Wonder if I get a bonus for that... Hope the Zaeed shows up too he was cool...

 

[AD-Stu]

Personally, I'll be surprised if their deaths have much negative impact at all beyond the obvious downside of not having Garrus / Tali as squadmates if they're dead.

Instead, I'm expecting we'll probably just get access to extra stuff if people survived. Like meeting up with Gianna Parasini on Illium in ME2 - there's some extra content there if she lived in ME1, and nothing if she died.

Also, I won't be particularly broken up if they choose not to bring some characters back at all - Zaeed, for example, or any of the bajillion NPCs we met over the course of the previous two games. One of the things that always seemed a bit silly to me about ME2 was that you somehow managed to either run into or hear from pretty much every single person you ever spoke with in ME1. Was receiving viagra spam from Morlan funny? Sure. But did it really affect my experience much to run into the crime gang boss in the back of Afterlife and find out she'd gone straight as per our recommendation? No, not really.

 

[AD-Stu]

Yeah, a bit unrealistic bumping into every single one of these people, but it ties up loose ends I guess.

True. I suspect they're in a bit of a no-win situation when it comes to this stuff. If they do include them all in the game, then people think it's all a bit contrived that you just happen to run into them all. But if they don't include them, they probably get bugged endlessly by people wanting to know "why we don't find out what happened to X" or "what is Y doing now".

I'm definitely in the "it seems contrived" camp, but then I'm also in the "I couldn't care less what was actually in the suitcase in Pulp Fiction" camp, and in the end it's hardly a deal breaker. Plus I guess I genuinely did find Morlan's viagra spam amusing

 

[Zen Toombs]

Wait, no, that's wrong. I lost Katsumi because I thought that the Greatest Thief In the Universe, who also happens to be good a tech, could handle a few pipes and a locked door without getting herself killed. Silly me.

She actually is, and if chosen as your Tech Expert she only dies if she isn't loyal (just like Tali or Legion) or you have someone who's a failure of a person[footnote]Definition: Anyone other than Garrus, Miranda or Jacob.
Note: This is a poor definition of "failure".[/footnote] leading the second team. Did you do her loyalty mission?

Personally, I'll be surprised if their deaths have much negative impact at all beyond the obvious downside of not having Garrus / Tali as squadmates if they're dead.
[you met everyone you didn't kill in ME 1, but in more words]

I would actually be suprised if that was the case. It's mentioned several times that Tali is in line to be an Admiral which would be helpful to get the Quarian people to help, Mordin is vital if you want to cure the Genophage (either for ethical reasons or for use as a bargaining chip with the Krogan), Miranda is pretty important to Cerberus and would be a great ally against it, and Legion is the ambassador of the Geth (and if you sent him to Cerberus then all of the Geth turned into Heretics thanks to the Heretic virus).

The others can all be replaced in one form or another though.[footnote]Even though it would make me a sad quarian.[/footnote]

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

Garrus and Tali dead?
Welcome to You're Fucked-ville!
Population- You, Liaria, and the 2 alience douchers. (Though kaiden is okay... too bad he DIES if you didn't beat ME1.)

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Garrus and Tali dead?
Welcome to You're Fucked-ville!
Population- You, Liaria, and the 2 alience douchers. (Though kaiden is okay... too bad he DIES if you didn't beat ME1.)

Also

Spoiler

EDI and Non Huskified Prothean

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Didn't lose a teammate, though I did lose Kelly (dunno if it's possible to save her and earn everyone's loyalty. If someone has done it, tell me how).

Yeah, it's possible.
What you do is you earn everyone's loyalty before the Reaper IFF (Derelict Reaper) mission. On this mission you acquire Legion.
After this mission you are allowed to do one more mission before your crew gets captured.
Use this opportunity to do Legion's loyalty quest. (The most important thing is to activate Legion as soon as he is aboard, before activating the galaxy map, so you actually have another loyalty quest active in your journal when you do).

More info available on this wiki page.

Yeah I got this right the second time. The first time Kelly got liquified after I decided to go milling around the galaxy looking for side-quests, other than going straight after them.

Nice Commander Keen avatar too!

 

[AD-Stu]

Personally, I'll be surprised if their deaths have much negative impact at all beyond the obvious downside of not having Garrus / Tali as squadmates if they're dead.

I would actually be suprised if that was the case. It's mentioned several times that Tali is in line to be an Admiral which would be helpful to get the Quarian people to help, Mordin is vital if you want to cure the Genophage (either for ethical reasons or for use as a bargaining chip with the Krogan), Miranda is pretty important to Cerberus and would be a great ally against it, and Legion is the ambassador of the Geth (and if you sent him to Cerberus then all of the Geth turned into Heretics thanks to the Heretic virus).

The others can all be replaced in one form or another though.

I must have missed some of that stuff - where was it mentioned that Tali was in line to be an admiral? All I can remember is the discussion you have with her in ME1 where she points out that positions on the admiralty board aren't hereditary so there's no reason to think she'll become an admiral just because her father was one. Also, if she's our squadmate then it's unlikely she'll also be serving as an admiral...

As for Legion, while we all agree he's cool, it doesn't actually make sense that we'd need him specifically as an ambassador to the geth - after all, he's just a mobile platform. Any mobile platform would do, they're all connected to the same collection of runtimes and programs.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I must have missed some of that stuff - where was it mentioned that Tali was in line to be an admiral? All I can remember is the discussion you have with her in ME1 where she points out that positions on the admiralty board aren't hereditary so there's no reason to think she'll become an admiral just because her father was one. Also, if she's our squadmate then it's unlikely she'll also be serving as an admiral...

As for Legion, while we all agree he's cool, it doesn't actually make sense that we'd need him specifically as an ambassador to the geth - after all, he's just a mobile platform. Any mobile platform would do, they're all connected to the same collection of runtimes and programs.

Tali is in line to be an Admiral because she's a boss, not because her father was an Admiral. Also, it's mentioned several times but not loudly. You just have to look for it.

Also, it's been mentioned that some/most/all squadmates won't be with you throughout the Reaper invasion[footnote]I forget exactly where I heard that, can anyone give me a source?[/footnote]: I interpret that as either one, some of your squadmates will die throughout the game, two, some of your squadmates will sometimes have other pressing engagements, be they temporary or permanent (for example, Liara with her Shadow Broking or Tali being an Admiral or Mordin [not a confirmed squadmate, but for example] working on the Genophage cure), three, you will get some squadmates only for certain missions, or four all of the above.

As for the Legion thing, only the programs in Legion have had extensive interpersonal [as opposed to extranet] contact with the outside world. Losing his 2+ years of hands-on research for the Geth would be a decent setback. However, my main point was about how sending it to Cerberus would be disastrous.

Don't forget the leader of the second team has to be loyal too, otherwise they will get the Tech killed (even if the Tech is loyal).

Yeah, I remembered. I just felt it would be funnier to leave it as it was, and would take up less space than explaining in full. 'Preciate the clarification for those not in the know, though!

 

[lordlillen]

fun fact there is only one squadmate that specificaly dies if you dont have a specific upgrade all of the other things are random, not upgrading the armour of the ship makes jack die wich was nice since i hated that stupid ***** and i had her killed.