Superman and now Captain America. Why so much dislike for being "overpowered"?

[Mad World]

Superman is portrayed as almost invincible. Kryptonite can harm him. Apparently, with reference to some incarnations, magic also can.

I don't like it when they're almost invincible. This is why I disliked Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen to such a degree.

Question about Superman: other than Kryptonite (and magic when it applies), can Superman die? Is he truly invulnerable? Is it just that people from his planet are insanely strong and powerful? Was Zod (and others from Krypton) theoretically just as strong and powerful as Superman?

 

[Blaster]

Superman is portrayed as almost invincible. Kryptonite can harm him. Apparently, with reference to some incarnations, magic also can.

I don't like it when they're almost invincible. This is why I disliked Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen to such a degree.

Question about Superman: other than Kryptonite (and magic when it applies), can Superman die? Is he truly invulnerable? Is it just that people from his planet are insanely strong and powerful? Was Zod (and others from Krypton) theoretically just as strong and powerful as Superman?

According to the mythology, what makes him powerful is the radiation of our yellow sun, supercharging his kryptonian cells. In the presence of other suns (say a red sun) he's vastly weakened. So yeah, other Kryptonians can/are as strong as he is.

 

[Olas]

There are exactly 98 elements found in nature, no more, no less. The table goes up to 118, but all elements on that upper end are increasingly unstable. The last of these, Ununoctium, exists for less than a thousandth of a second before radiating protons away and becoming a different element.

Saying that all upper elements are increasingly unstable isn't completely true. Element 114 is supposed to be in the center of an upper 'island of stability' meaning it's actually quite a bit more stable than the elements lower than it with isotopes that can last for several minutes before decaying, and by all accounts there should be more islands of stability further up as well.

This is not to say that other elements cannot exist, that is patently untrue. but there is indeed a problem. Elements are defined by the number of protons they have, and there is no room in the middle of the list for any more elements. Any and all new baryonic elements would have at minimum 119 protons, would be lethally radioactive, and would only be able to exist in its current form for even less time than Ununoctium does. It kind of makes it difficult to use.

There are, however, lots of isotopes or nuclides of those elements as well, which can have unique properties. Vibranium could be just a different name for an isotope of an element that we already know about but haven't yet been able to amass in large enough quantities to observe its physical properties.

There are also exotic atoms, where one sub-atomic particle or more has been replaced with a different particle of similar charge, such as a muonic-atom or hypernucleus atom. I'm not an expert on nuclear physics, but I don't think we know too much about the properties of the materials these would create if they could actually be synthesized in large quantities.

Just in general it's never safe or smart to say we've discovered everything there is, because you don't know what you don't know, and you can only be proven wrong.

 

[Mad World]

Superman is portrayed as almost invincible. Kryptonite can harm him. Apparently, with reference to some incarnations, magic also can.

I don't like it when they're almost invincible. This is why I disliked Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen to such a degree.

Question about Superman: other than Kryptonite (and magic when it applies), can Superman die? Is he truly invulnerable? Is it just that people from his planet are insanely strong and powerful? Was Zod (and others from Krypton) theoretically just as strong and powerful as Superman?

According to the mythology, what makes him powerful is the radiation of our yellow sun, supercharging his kryptonian cells. In the presence of other suns (say a red sun) he's vastly weakened. So yeah, other Kryptonians can/are as strong as he is.

Ah. Okay. Thank you. Always wondered that.

So, theoretically, given the right circumstances, could someone similar to Goku, for example, defeat Superman without using powers or Kryptonite (just physical fighting)?

 

[Blaster]

Superman is portrayed as almost invincible. Kryptonite can harm him. Apparently, with reference to some incarnations, magic also can.

I don't like it when they're almost invincible. This is why I disliked Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen to such a degree.

Question about Superman: other than Kryptonite (and magic when it applies), can Superman die? Is he truly invulnerable? Is it just that people from his planet are insanely strong and powerful? Was Zod (and others from Krypton) theoretically just as strong and powerful as Superman?

According to the mythology, what makes him powerful is the radiation of our yellow sun, supercharging his kryptonian cells. In the presence of other suns (say a red sun) he's vastly weakened. So yeah, other Kryptonians can/are as strong as he is.

Ah. Okay. Thank you. Always wondered that.

So, theoretically, given the right circumstances, could someone similar to Goku, for example, defeat Superman without using powers or Kryptonite (just physical fighting)?

Its possible, UNDER the right circumstances.

 

[Frankster]

Captain America OP? News to me, whilst super strength and quick healing are nifty abilities to have, it doesn't exactly make him top tier power wise when it comes to superheroes.

I'd agree he is a bit boring, my least favorite avenger, though but then again..I only know the character through movies, maybe there's more to the guy and I just haven't bothered finding out.

So, theoretically, given the right circumstances, could someone similar to Goku, for example, defeat Superman without using powers or Kryptonite (just physical fighting)?

As well as kryptonite, Superman is meant to be vulnerable to magical/spiritual attacks AFAIK.

So Gokus kamehameha, spirit bomb, etc, would be fully effective if they landed.

But an episode of Deathbattle by screwattack did some fancy maths and had Supermans overall "power level" to be even more insanely powerful then goku (which imo just goes to show what a crappy character superman is, being more OP then goku is like being more over the top ridiculous then 40k, it's hardly something to brag about as a good thing unless you're 12) so Goku would need to be resurrected and train in the time chamber a few dozen times before he is able to finally beat the man of steel.

 

[J Tyran]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

I love the shield. I believe the reason it does not transfer the kinetic energy, is because it reflects it.

Newtonian law of physics number three. Every action provokes an equal and opposite reaction.

You cannot simply reflect kinetic energy, it can be distorted, warped, transferred, dissipated, etc. but it is impossible to get it to reverse direction, no matter what kind of material you are working with. What you can do is generate an opposing force which causes your moving object to reverse direction, but all you have really accomplished is an energy swap, not a reversal. The object that was hit still has to deal with that same kinetic energy.

Imagine holding up a shield like that, and letting someone hit it with a sledgehammer. Your arm, and through it the rest of your body, still has to deal with exactly the same amount of kinetic energy as if you had tried to block the blow without the shield. The shield just gives you a work advantage that lets you stretch out and soften the impact. Kind of like the tire shocks on a car or bike.

This setup has its limits:

-one, no matter what, a heavy enough blow will send a shock through your arm strong enough to shatter bone, or worse.

-two, the less the shield itself moves, the less the impact of the blow is mitigated. If it doesn't move at all, you almost might as well be blocking it barehanded.

Given the force behind some of the blows Cap A has taken on that shield, the realistic outcomes are not exactly pretty.

Either he successfully braces the shield such that it does not significantly move, just like in the comics/movies, and the resulting kinetic shock turns most of his innards to bone shrapnel filled goop. Or, more likely, he does not, and the shield goes flying, probably crushing him in the process.

No arguing against any of this in real life but you are trying to apply this to comic book heroes, if you sit and nit pick about the laws of physics or biology and everything else thats not realistic in superhero fiction whats the use? Its unrealistic and its about whats entertaining not real, if the story says his shield does something because of it doesn't real matter because they might as well say his sheild acts that way because they designer ate blueberry muffins the day he built it and it transferred magical muffin force into the shield. Magical muffin force makes as much sense but it doesn't sound as good or screen plausible as deflecting energy thats all.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

People dislike Superman for a few reasons, I think..

1) He's embarrassingly more powerful than the rest of heroes popularly associated with the Justice League

2) Unlike Batman, virtually nothing of worth can be salvaged from the nineties dork-age of Superman. Superman doesn't have anything as widely recognised as "The Killing Joke" by Alan Moore, or even Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns". The Death Of Superman casts a long, tall and dark shadow of suck over the character in the popular consciousness of the sorts of people who read comic books.

3) In the movies Superman has always been presented as an end product of a story arc that has all but wrapped up before the movie even gets properly underway. And once that formation has taken place the character has reached his most evolved stage. The only thing more indomitable than Superman's body is his spirit. Superman can and has been killed, but his spirit is widely and overwhelmingly portrayed as being unbreakable. There is no point you could possibly push Superman to in order for him to break bad like a Walter White.

And Captain America was overpowered? Since when? Since where? If Captain America were a Planeteer instead of being an Avenger, he would be the absolutely useless South American kid with the heart ring. He might have more 'superpowers' than either Hawkeye or the Black Widow, but at least they know how to get shit done when it needs to get done.

 

[Yopaz]

I think the only way the good captain can be considered op is because he has a magical shield that can block everything, including Mjolnir, the Hammer of Thor. Cap isn't op, his weapon is.

Now that I think about it, what would be op would be someone like Thor wielding Captain America's shield. The strength of the guy who (according to my very limited comic knowledge) picks fights with the Hulk, has a magic lightning hammer, and invincible shield? that's gg man.

Just a warning before you'll likely get an official warning and lose health on the forum, take a look at the code of conduct and tell me exactly why your post is violating it. Hint: It's low content posting. I'd advice you to add something to your post and avoid the upcoming warning.

OT: Well, the problem with an overpowered character is that it makes the climax kinda boring. There can't be any suspense if the hero can defeat most enemies in a single blow. Superman suffers from this since they always have to add something to make him vulnerable or to find enemies of equal or greater power and it feels forced.

They make him powerless at times, they make characters that are of the same strength, but then what's the point? If an enemy has the same powers then they could as well have no powers as far as their struggle goes. Enemies can be allowed to have more variation when they're not facing an invulnerable hero. Spider-man is facing Dr. Octopus, the Goblins, the lizards, Hydro, Mysterio and lots of others. They all present different challenges.

Of course, the same goes for Superman when we dig a little more than just scraping the top. Kryptonite, schemes, supernatural enemies, he's overpowered compared to most other heroes, but his enemies reflect his strength in various ways.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Well I never felt like Superman was too OP in Man of Steel for example, mainly because most of the time he was actually "outmanned" by Zod's soldiers in smallville, and then almost outpowered by Zod himself in metropolis.
Not to mention a lot of little details in how he flies that make him feel more "human". Most of his flights mid-fights resulted in him crash landing, it really feels like even he is not capable of fully controlling his own power at that point.

New 52 and by extension Man of Steel is probably the weakest Superman has ever been in any continuity since the golden age, really. Until recently his powers were based solely on solar radiation, meaning as long as he was near a yellow or blue sun he was at his full strength. Having Earth's own environment and lesser gravity contribute to his strength means that in an alien atmosphere like, say, Apokolips, he'd be much less powerful.

I agree that Cap is definitely NOT OP. He's not even as strong as Spider-man, and Spider-man is like them middle-ground of Marvel heroes. And, strictly speaking, Superman is not really OP either relative to the DC universe. Plenty of villains can put him through the ringer, and not just the ones that are magic-based or have access to kryptonite. I'm not saying Supes isn't strong or that he isn't one of the strongest there is, because he is. But OP? Nah.

People who often write for Supes I think don't know what to do with him or don't give a damn....or try to give him a bad name *coughs* Frank Miller *coughs*. I think the weakest version of Supes is still the animated series and Justice League version. I think part of the reason people are bringing up this OP card, especially for Cap., is that they don't like their character. The character of being the epitome of goodness and justice. Probably because they don't believe anyone can be like that ever. I'm about ready to say "screw you" to those people if they keep this up because I'm getting so god damn tired of their seeming worship of characters like Iron Man (an asshole) or Batman (a psychotic and insane thug). I like both characters too myself but when characters that focus on the positives of people and society are constantly degraded and said to be inferior to psychotics, assholes, and psychotic assholes I get a little angry. *rant over. sorry*

Curious, how is Superman any less a vigilante than Batman?


Aside from taking the law into his own hands, he probably violates FAA regulations everytime he flies.

 

[Rblade]

superman defenitly seems OP to me. Not really any of the other guys, but you can defenitly spot an OP character based on the smell of ass on the items pulled out to challenge him. Be it bad luck or deus ex machina's superman is so powerfull he basically requires bad writing to be properly opposed. This maby me being underinformed on american comics but everything I hear and see about it points me in that direction.

 

[Frankster]

snip

Remember which Darkseid fight? Problem with Superman is there's like a zillion continuities of him and at his most powerful from the comic books (the version screwattack uses and one that usually gets bought up in cases of comparing with other fictional characters) it sure didn't look like he could be subdued in the manner you're telling.
Goku by contrast only has one continuity so easy to know what you're dealing with.

What you describe seems more in line with Superman from the animated series, which is the version of Superman I do like since he is rather more fallible there. Also that version would lose vs Goku flat out imo xP

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-extras/8223-ScrewAttacks-Death-Battle-Goku-vs-Superman
Just so we are on same page.

 

[Psychedeliasmith]

you can definitely spot an OP character based on the smell of ass on the items pulled out to challenge him. Be it bad luck or deus ex machina's superman is so powerful he basically requires bad writing to be properly opposed.

This, a thousand times this. You can only go "Oh, here's some more Kryptonite!" a limited number of times. An overpowered character's real drive comes from the fact he's protecting people, because that's the only way he can possibly fail. Unfortunately, as things get more realistic (or as its readers mature) this seems an ever-more futile fantasy.

It works if there's a whole bunch of equally powerful but different forces but even then there's problems - X-men handles it like that but ends up getting rather like Pokemon, with new things thrown into the mix to saturation point.

I think this is why people can be a big fan of these characters but have only ever seen the films - you can totally buy into the world of Superman 1, and never have to deal with the question behind the question "What if someone discovered more Kryptonite every week?"

 

[Saelune]

Captain America's "power" is being a good leader really. He is just the "perfect human" physically, but is easily out strengthed by Spider-Man, Thor, Hulk, Thing etc. He is just a good leader, tactician, and moral person.

 

[KazeAizen]

Curious, how is Superman any less a vigilante than Batman?


Aside from taking the law into his own hands, he probably violates FAA regulations everytime he flies.

I think the idea with Supes is that, ignoring FAA stuff, he is more of a reactionary hero. He stops street level crimes yes but more often then he stops them while they are happening where as say Batman actively investigates and tries to prevent crimes before they happen. In other words doing actual police work while not working with the police. Superman is the good samaritan that stops bad things while they happen but hopefully before too many people get hurt.

 

[Angelous Wang]

I don't see how Capitan America is Overpowered. He is weaker than and could easily be killed by both Thor and Hulk (possibly Ironman too, those two are kind of on on par with each other).

Maybe people just compare him to the perople he fights and in that sense he can be overpowered, because he deals with more earth threats rather than superpowered aliens and the like (unlike Thor for example).

The reason Hulk isn't consider overpowered is because of banner, if he was Hulk 100% of time then he would be OP'ed but the fact he goes back to super weakling banner balances him out. And as said earlier Thor spends his time fighting other Alien races would can match him in power.

Superman is definitely the definition of overpowered, he ends up a golden immortal, with a few million more superpowers (than normal superman), no weakness (he stores up so much energy even Kryptonite has no effect) and is the only thing left in a void once the DC universe inevitably ends because death is not strong enough to claim him.

Though I really prefer Superman as a bad guy (Ultraman) or Superman vs Ultraman. Because Ultraman tends to be a bit strong than Superman (due to his mental restrictions on his powers which Ultraman does not have), means Superman has to work for his victory.

 

[Auberon]

If someone calls Cap overpowered, I'd love to see their comments regarding Morpheus and his family.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

If by overpowered you mean stronger than the average human? Sure. If you refer to the idea that he's the only other person besides Thor who could pick up Mjolnir? Well the dude has a pure heart, which apparently fits Odin's little speech warding off potential hammer-thieves (looking at you ya shifty eyed hammer throwing turtles... don't you dare jump through my ceiling with your "I can phase through solid matter" bullcrap).
Seriously though Cap may be super powered but he ain't a god like Supes. Even without his shield Caps pretty badass... but he can't fly, breathe in space, toss planets around. He's nowhere near OP.

 

[vid87]

It's probably been pointed out, but, regarding Cap specifically, he's constantly been referenced as the "weak link" in the Avengers alongside Black Widow and Hawkeye - they're all powerful humans with great skill, but they're still mortal and lack the special abilities that would come in handy for, say, fighting an evil space whale. Powerful as he is, Cap's still human - even a gunshot would is capable of killing him. In short, I disagree with "Cap is overpowered."

With the general concept of overpowered characters, the main problem is that, unless the film can properly establish other characters the audience can care for when put in danger and compromise the hero's invincibility, there are no stakes. I sat through The Wolverine thinking there's really not much to get excited about - with his healing factor, he basically can't be killed. Where's the suspense?