Superman/Batman film announced

[Lieju]

They should make Batman really light in comparison.
I want the new Batman-movies to be fun and campy.

Oh that could work, but I doubt DC can pull it off. The guys behind the Marvel movies could certainly get away with this. Plus can you imagine the uproar by the DC-fanboys if Batman is actually funny again, and not a tormented dark near-psychopath?

Which is why I don't have high hopes for that.

I enjoyed Nolan's take on Batman, but I want something different now.

 

[Raioken18]

What... Snyder is brilliant with visuals and his movies all look stunning. Aside from that one movie he wrote himself, anything he touches turns to gold. 300, Watchmen and now Man of Steel are all great movies.

Potential Spoilers for Man of Steel

I know a lot of people are pissed about him changing their hero or whatever, but that's basically how comic book writers work, each iteration is different to the ones from the past. Now you may think they changed his moral compass or whatever, but the thing is he did that stuff in a lot of the comics too.

Spoiler

Seeming as he killed off The Joker, Doomsday and
Darkseide using their subsequent deaths as reasoning not to kill in the future.

The way he was portrayed was in alignment with what it should have been, an origin story setting up a wider array of sequels.

Spoiler

References to Lex Luthor and Braniac were all throughout the movie, setting them up to be villains in the future.

The thing that got me was I went to see it claiming not to know that much about Superman's background even though I knew basics like that. The people I went with claimed to have always loved Superman before watching the movie and then came up with some of the stupidest comments at the end.

Spoiler

"The story was wrong because Superman was meant to be the only Kryptonian that escaped", "Superman doesn't kill people they just did that to make him like Batman", "He's too powerful if he's invincible then there's no point to the story", "The bad guy should have been Lex Luthor"

Ugh... The point of Superman isn't that he's like Batman and has to risk death at every turn. Superman cares about others and seeks to protect the innocent and those he loves. The threat comes not from the risk of his own death but the risk of the deaths of others. I mean there's always the big plot to try and kill him, but most of the time he's safe from harm.

It's why one of the worst enemies against him is the Joker and his taunts and tricks, harming the loves ones of a hero and his allies. Batman has the mental fortitude to at least stand up to those enemies but Superman... he does have his limitations even though they aren't immediately apparent.

At least that's my interpretation of it. You could also go the slower aging route and how he lives on while his loved ones age and die. I mean Amy Adams is 38, and I wasn't sure if she was meant to be playing someone that age or younger... as she looks freaking amazing. Though I might have missed that, how old was she meant to be?

 

[GundamSentinel]

Versus movie: How could Batman ever stand a chance against Superman? C'mon now, really...
Co-op movie: Why would Superman need Batman for anything? C'mon now, really...

Superman is always a game breaker when compared to other heroes anyone. Superman is just plain boring and could only work in his own movies. Hell, even Batman is starting to be old-hat and without Bale, I don't know how they'll ever pull this off.

Colour me uninterested.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Imagine the following - Superman's space shuttle crashes on Earth and kills Bruce Wayne's parents. I'd totally watch that movie.

I am imagining a prepubescent Bruce trying to do his trademarked low throaty growly voice, swearing revenge.

 

[endtherapture]

How about you start by justifying how Man of Steel's script is better, rather than expecting people to come to you. You're making the proposition, you back it up. My main point will be that with the exclusion of possibly 3-4 lines in the entire movie, every piece of dialogue was extremely typical and there was no human element to any character in the movie. Half the human characters are omniscient and always in control of the situation to an extent that is not believable. For example, there are a multitude of situations in which human characters should be scared a little, if not out of their fucking minds, in which the characters in question remain stupidly stoic and calm.

Really? I thought the human characters were okay. The 3 journalists in the film were clearly scared out of their minds, but Perry was staying strong for Jenny, and the other guy was just kinda there, but also terrified. Jenny's acting she she was trapped under the rubble was very convincing especially as she insisted she didn't want to be left alone, and Perry's reaction to that was great.

Ma Kent seemed reasonably scared when Zod arrived, and then reasonably sentimental after they left by keeping the photo albums safe.

The military guys were well...military guys, but some of them had some cool lines and some characterisation. Same with the science guy. They were there but that's all they had to do.

Lois Lane was also acting realistic throughout the film.

I honestly don't see peoples problems with this film, I enjoyed it a lot more than many of the Marvel films. The only criticism I have in general is one bad line after Clark and Lois kiss, and the fact there are a few too many explosions. The film made Superman cool and relatable for the first time in my life.

 

[Vausch]

That's honestly what I find hilarious: there is no debate. Superman and Batman have fought 9 times. Superman won 7 of them and nearly killed Batman during some, and the 2 Batman "won" were basically neutralisation effects to either calm him down or stop some mind control effects. He's never actually BEATEN Superman, like to the point where Superman is incapacitated.

Well, if it's a whole new universe, Superman could be less powerful. But if it follows Man of Steel...
Although you could always make Superman fight somewhere where he is powerless or something. You could write the fight to go either way and justify it, but from a story-telling standpoint, why make them fight at all?

The conflict should be more about their ideological differences. Different ways of handling crime.
But why not include Wonder Woman there as well, then, and make it about the big three?

...

I want a justice league movie, is what I'm saying.

I kinda fear that. So many are calling Superman out of character for Man of Steel with the killing and all, and it makes me fear they'll turn Wonder Woman into her NBC pilot version. Y'know, the one that isn't an Amazon but runs a multi-national corporation, tortures people for information, kills people by throwing pipes through their throats, brushes off due process, and sits at home with her cat after all that?

Worse yet is I fear they'll make a brooding Flash. That would just be the final nail, I'd be saying that DC needs to get a new film studio because Warner Brothers can't do anything that isn't Batman. God, I'm just imagining the usually happy and light hearted Barry or Wally running around going "Why was I cursed to be able to run faster than anybody, get accelerated healing, the ability to phase through walls and be able to read the entire library of congress in less than an hour?! I'm so aloooone!"

 

[Lieju]

So many are calling Superman out of character for Man of Steel with the killing and all, and it makes me fear they'll turn Wonder Woman into her NBC pilot version. Y'know, the one that isn't an Amazon but runs a multi-national corporation, tortures people for information, kills people by throwing pipes through their throats, brushes off due process, and sits at home with her cat after all that?

Worse yet is I fear they'll make a brooding Flash. That would just be the final nail, I'd be saying that DC needs to get a new film studio because Warner Brothers can't do anything that isn't Batman. God, I'm just imagining the usually happy and light hearted Barry or Wally running around going "Why was I cursed to be able to run faster than anybody, get accelerated healing, the ability to phase through walls and be able to read the entire library of congress in less than an hour?! I'm so aloooone!"

Yeah, I don't have much faith in them. Well, at least they had the sense to stop the Wonder woman series at the pilot.


Flash always did strike me as kinda scary concept, actually.
Being so much faster and have the world freeze around you creeps me out and sounds like a horror concept.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

Really? I thought the human characters were okay. The 3 journalists in the film were clearly scared out of their minds, but Perry was staying strong for Jenny, and the other guy was just kinda there, but also terrified. Jenny's acting she she was trapped under the rubble was very convincing especially as she insisted she didn't want to be left alone, and Perry's reaction to that was great.

Ma Kent seemed reasonably scared when Zod arrived, and then reasonably sentimental after they left by keeping the photo albums safe.

The military guys were well...military guys, but some of them had some cool lines and some characterisation. Same with the science guy. They were there but that's all they had to do.

Lois Lane was also acting realistic throughout the film.

I honestly don't see peoples problems with this film, I enjoyed it a lot more than many of the Marvel films. The only criticism I have in general is one bad line after Clark and Lois kiss, and the fact there are a few too many explosions. The film made Superman cool and relatable for the first time in my life.

Ok, well in that case what we have is a difference of opinion in what constitutes a realistic character. I thought Perry was unreasonably wise for a normal person, Lois Lane was ridiculously outgoing, always clean, always in control and didn't need more than a short montage to find Clark, Mrs Kent was fine but exactly what I expected ("It's just stuff" was exactly the reaction as well), the two journalists who weren't that important didn't do anything interesting (I was hoping the guy would run when Perry was trying to save the other one as a bit of character, but nope, just stands there), Zod was too bloodthirsty and singleminded (no moment of realisation, no hint of the honourable man Jor El apparently admired which may have tied in nicely), his female lackey was typical, his other lackeys had no personality, Mr Kent was also ridiculously wise, fitting something Confucius may have said into just about every sentence (also confused that Superman was happy to save a journalist but not his own father, but if he regrets his inaction and realises he can't bear letting people die, fair enough - but I didn't see that development, that's me making the movie better in my own head), the 'bullies' said the most stilted, unimaginative, bland insults I've ever heard, the military characters were nothing new - the cadet, the unfazed commander who gets on with the job, the honourable dickhead who finally comes round...

Basically no character was ever unsure of what they were doing (every line delivered deliberately and with meaning) or in possession of any flaws or traits that didn't exist for their role, very little development happened outside of Superman (no I don't count that military guy taking most of the movie to realise Superman is on his side)...every character filled a role and did nothing else.

Good things about the movie were basically special effects and prop design, great fighting and destruction, and the few lines I did like were "You think you can threaten my mother", "Welcome to the planet", and how Lois is cut off when suggesting the S is for Super. Those are about the only things I liked about the movie.

But in the end, we're not really opposing each other on script. It is what it is. I just found it typical to the point where I couldn't be invested in the characters.

 

[endtherapture]

Ok, well in that case what we have is a difference of opinion in what constitutes a realistic character. I thought Perry was unreasonably wise for a normal person, Lois Lane was ridiculously outgoing, always clean, always in control and didn't need more than a short montage to find Clark, Mrs Kent was fine but exactly what I expected ("It's just stuff" was exactly the reaction as well), the two journalists who weren't that important didn't do anything interesting (I was hoping the guy would run when Perry was trying to save the other one as a bit of character, but nope, just stands there), Zod was too bloodthirsty and singleminded (no moment of realisation, no hint of the honourable man Jor El apparently admired which may have tied in nicely), his female lackey was typical, his other lackeys had no personality, Mr Kent was also ridiculously wise, fitting something Confucius may have said into just about every sentence (also confused that Superman was happy to save a journalist but not his own father, but if he regrets his inaction and realises he can't bear letting people die, fair enough - but I didn't see that development, that's me making the movie better in my own head), the 'bullies' said the most stilted, unimaginative, bland insults I've ever heard, the military characters were nothing new - the cadet, the unfazed commander who gets on with the job, the honourable dickhead who finally comes round...

Well Perry was going to just leave that woman in the rubble until she asked him to stay...which isn't that wise.
Lois is a journalist so she's expected to be outgoing. Also I assume the montage took like...2 weeks real time or something and just condensed her journey down.
Zod is bloodthirsty but that's explained by the way he was created.
Pa Kent...yeah wasn't really feeling him that much.
The 'bullies' couldn't really say anything more in a 12A certificate film.
Military characters are just that - they're not any better in other films of this type, just the standard really.

Basically no character was ever unsure of what they were doing (every line delivered deliberately and with meaning) or in possession of any flaws or traits that didn't exist for their role, very little development happened outside of Superman (no I don't count that military guy taking most of the movie to realise Superman is on his side)...every character filled a role and did nothing else.

Superman wasn't sure of what he was doing a lot of the film, and no one on the plane going to bomb the Phantom Zone ship was either.

Good things about the movie were basically special effects and prop design, great fighting and destruction, and the few lines I did like were "You think you can threaten my mother", "Welcome to the planet", and how Lois is cut off when suggesting the S is for Super. Those are about the only things I liked about the movie.

But in the end, we're not really opposing each other on script. It is what it is. I just found it typical to the point where I couldn't be invested in the characters.

I enjoyed the film because it finally humanised Superman and made him likeable. There were too many explosions, but the visual design made up for it. Superman learning to fly was awesome.

It was a film that inspired me and stuck with me, unlike Iron Man 1/2, Thor, Avengers, which whilst they were average-good, were really forgettable. Thor's plot in particular sucked.

So many are calling Superman out of character for Man of Steel with the killing and all, and it makes me fear they'll turn Wonder Woman into her NBC pilot version. Y'know, the one that isn't an Amazon but runs a multi-national corporation, tortures people for information, kills people by throwing pipes through their throats, brushes off due process, and sits at home with her cat after all that?

Worse yet is I fear they'll make a brooding Flash. That would just be the final nail, I'd be saying that DC needs to get a new film studio because Warner Brothers can't do anything that isn't Batman. God, I'm just imagining the usually happy and light hearted Barry or Wally running around going "Why was I cursed to be able to run faster than anybody, get accelerated healing, the ability to phase through walls and be able to read the entire library of congress in less than an hour?! I'm so aloooone!"

Yeah, I don't have much faith in them. Well, at least they had the sense to stop the Wonder woman series at the pilot.


Flash always did strike me as kinda scary concept, actually.
Being so much faster and have the world freeze around you creeps me out and sounds like a horror concept.

I reckon Flash could make an awesome film. Make it sort of weirdly light-heated, Ryan Gosling as The Flash, go for a comedy angle perhaps, he's late for everything despite his super-speed and it could be good but the exectuion would need to be perfect.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

Well Perry was going to just leave that woman in the rubble until she asked him to stay...which isn't that wise.

At which point he tried to free her, then stood stoically as he was about to be eviscerated, having been the only person to suggest evacuating earlier, which ideally would have been sort of a consensus.

Lois is a journalist so she's expected to be outgoing. Also I assume the montage took like...2 weeks real time or something and just condensed her journey down.

I know, but she was too on top of everything. I see intuitive, determined, outgoing characters all the time, but this one stretches my sensibility. It's like she didn't even try. Same for the montage - looked far too easy, that's all.

Zod is bloodthirsty but that's explained by the way he was created.

Not stupidly so. He's a soldier meant to defend Krypton, but he refuses to go through a couple of years of adaptation (which would have saved his race, by the way) and instead opts for genocide and war with one of his own. But in this case, he's also a bit insane from all that sitting around in a void, so I'll give you Zod.

Pa Kent...yeah wasn't really feeling him that much.
The 'bullies' couldn't really say anything more in a 12A certificate film.

Anything related to Clark suffering sensory overload would have sufficed, but they went for universally weak insults instead.

Military characters are just that - they're not any better in other films of this type, just the standard really.

That's true. Which is why I found them so predictable, boring and unnecessary, just like most military characters in other films of this type. Just because everyone does it doesn't make it alright.

Basically no character was ever unsure of what they were doing (every line delivered deliberately and with meaning) or in possession of any flaws or traits that didn't exist for their role, very little development happened outside of Superman (no I don't count that military guy taking most of the movie to realise Superman is on his side)...every character filled a role and did nothing else.

Superman wasn't sure of what he was doing a lot of the film, and no one on the plane going to bomb the Phantom Zone ship was either.

But he and they acted like they were, which is what I have issue with. Clark doesn't even ask about his mother or Krypton when he meets his father. He flies off like he has something to do. Nobody is fazed by anything and they act like they know what to do when they shouldn't.

Good things about the movie were basically special effects and prop design, great fighting and destruction, and the few lines I did like were "You think you can threaten my mother", "Welcome to the planet", and how Lois is cut off when suggesting the S is for Super. Those are about the only things I liked about the movie.

But in the end, we're not really opposing each other on script. It is what it is. I just found it typical to the point where I couldn't be invested in the characters.

I enjoyed the film because it finally humanised Superman and made him likeable. There were too many explosions, but the visual design made up for it. Superman learning to fly was awesome.

I didn't like him, but I agree it was nice to see at least some moral quandry, not just "I must do what is right all the time". Some people apparently think it was a bit of a betrayal of the character, but I don't like vanilla Superman either. I do like the movie version more, but unfortunately the delivery was pretty straight.

It was a film that inspired me and stuck with me, unlike Iron Man 1/2, Thor, Avengers, which whilst they were average-good, were really forgettable. Thor's plot in particular sucked.

I haven't actually seen Thor, and I'm fairly glad not to have for that reason. Captain America wasn't anything special either. The Avengers was good in the character interaction department though, if a bit typical in plot, but did a good job of sharing the spotlight and the surprising Hulk/Iron Man bonding and similar things are really the point of that movie. Iron Man was a fun movie. Also typical plot, but Iron Man's antics were amusing, and it was a change to see a drunk, partying millionaire entrusted with responsibility ('boss fight' was a bit of an anticlimax). Man of Steel...I just cannot get over the dialogue and characters, really. The fighting made the movie worth watching, but nothing memorable about any character except their complete lack of memorability in my opinion.

 

[endtherapture]

snip

I general I liked Superman and Louis. I liked Perry, Jor-El, Zod and Zod's ladyfriend out of the characters. The rest were forgettable. I liked the general narrative structure and it's similarity to Batman Begins in that department. I liked the art design, fight scenes and visuals. I liked that Superman wasn't an arse, like Tony Stark is (tiresome after 4 films of it).

Ultimately I get why people don't like it because it's too grimdark...but it can't just copy The Avengers and be all "fun" and "comic book-ish". DC has always seemed more serious than Marvel and that's going to be it's niche in the film industry, whilst Marvel goes "fun".

 

[Relish in Chaos]

To be honest?I?m fucking sick of Superman and Batman. The Dark Knight Rises is remembered for nothing more than Bane?s stupid voice. Man of Steel was exhaustingly over-the-top, and it was ?meh?. How about they give some of the less popular superheroes some well-deserved screentime, like the Flash or Wonder Woman, rather than relying on a cash grab? This is what MovieBob was talking about: we need new material.

 

[viranimus]

I find it fascinating that people will clamor against a reboot to an existing franchise because it revisits an origin story already done, yet can be excited for a Superman/batman film despite it being done to death already between the comics & DCAU. Worlds finest and public enemies just off the top of my head for example. And for what? To lay ground work for a JLA film? Why does anyone even want something like that right now? It screams of "Marvel did it we MUST do it!" and pandering to that nonsensical logic makes DC look absolutely flippin mentally damaged.

/sigh Oh well. Serves me right for expecting a measure of logic and practicality when dealing with those draped in spandex.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I can only pray this doesn't suck, but I'm now officially excited for this as I was The Dark Knight Rises

 

[Vausch]

So many are calling Superman out of character for Man of Steel with the killing and all, and it makes me fear they'll turn Wonder Woman into her NBC pilot version. Y'know, the one that isn't an Amazon but runs a multi-national corporation, tortures people for information, kills people by throwing pipes through their throats, brushes off due process, and sits at home with her cat after all that?

Worse yet is I fear they'll make a brooding Flash. That would just be the final nail, I'd be saying that DC needs to get a new film studio because Warner Brothers can't do anything that isn't Batman. God, I'm just imagining the usually happy and light hearted Barry or Wally running around going "Why was I cursed to be able to run faster than anybody, get accelerated healing, the ability to phase through walls and be able to read the entire library of congress in less than an hour?! I'm so aloooone!"

Yeah, I don't have much faith in them. Well, at least they had the sense to stop the Wonder woman series at the pilot.


Flash always did strike me as kinda scary concept, actually.
Being so much faster and have the world freeze around you creeps me out and sounds like a horror concept.

Y'know what's funny? Flash is the most powerful character in the entire DCU, and that includes Superman. When object approaches light speed, it becomes denser and insanely heavy. Flash punching anything at full speed would be equivalent to him hitting something with the mass of the entire universe! Probably the reason he doesn't do that is the risk of breaking the planet or shifting the its axis.

 

[stroopwafel]

The Batman logo looks a lot like that from TDKR, coupled with the quote from that book when this movie was announced really make it sound it will be inspired by Miller's seminal work. Which sounds fantastic to me! I absolutely loved the two recent cartoon adaptations of TDKR so having a live action movie inspired by the same source material got me pretty excited. The Batman movies by Nolan were fantastic as well. So I'm happy he appears to be involved in the project.

Batman is like the only 'superhero' I haven't left behind in my childhood since the character is psychologically complex, open to multiple interpretations and doesn't have to draw on 'superpowers' to compensate for a boring lack of depth. Superman as such doesn't really belong in 'his' universe unless as a metaphore as in TDKR, but ofcourse this subtlety will be lost in translation in a Batman/Superman Hollywood flick.

Still though the idea sounds really cool and from what I read so far they are looking in the right direction for inspiration.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I'll first point out I'm not a fan of superhero films... actually, mainly I outright despise. I liked Kick-Ass and Jumper, and could tolerate Iron Man 1 and whichever of the Dark Night trilogy I saw, but I'm not a fan.
But putting that aside, these characters are very different. Batman is, albeit a rich and popular one, a human being. He is governed by the laws of nature and science and feels like a human, therefore making him a somewhat relatable character.
Superman is the kind of character a creator makes when they don't want to be tied down by basic rules and laws, and just want to go batshit crazy with any resemblance of clarity going out the window. Some people may like this more, as it gives them an idol and something they want to be. I, like I assume a lot of people, prefer Batman as I can relate to him. We are both human, and the film creator can't pull random bullshit to fit the plot. We know the limits of his power.
So OT: Will this not cause loads of the fanbases for each character to turn feral? Like people saying 'yeaaaah X was always better' or 'No why did X win he's a pussy'. Is this really a great idea?
I guess it'll sell even more T-shirts and mugs.