SW:TOR, the now. How do you feel about this?

[craftomega]

So I Decided to reinstall TOR I wanted to see what changed what changes they made with the new free to play model. I only have two words for it...

LOL fail.

For a game with such potential it?s amazing how bad EA is messing up this game. So if you don?t pay a subscription fee:

-can only choose two out of eight races per class.

-can only have 2 characters (you get 12 if you pay the sub)

-must have authorization to use high level gear.

-350,000 credit cap

The list goes on... (http://www.swtor.com/free/features)

So the problem i see with this is that it?s almost like they are punishing you for not paying. They make the game so unpleasant that you would want to pay to make it better right? Wrong, it makes its so unpleasant that as soon as i saw all the restriction I uninstalled the game.

Why would I play a game that punishes me for not paying? To me than its not free to play; its pay to enjoy. But if I can?t enjoy the game without paying then I?m never going to pay. (Am I making sense here?)

I am just shocked at how bad the whole implementation of this game has been, from start to finish, no wonder "John Riccitiello Steps Down Over 'Shortcomings' In Financial Performance".

TLR, How do you feel about SW:TOR's new Free to play system?

 

[BrotherRool]

I think restricting the races and number of characters was a clever idea. If I bought some new races I'd feel really satisfied with that deal.

But everything else...it's not so much how much they restrict but how darn invasive it is. The game is constantly nagging you to give it money and that's not the way to get people to pay up. It becomes incredibly unpleasant going from place to place and always having these pop ups reminding you that you can give them money.

It also increases the problem TOR has that it feels more MMO than Star Wars (and RPG for that matter). It's hard enough trying to keep up immersion that you're in the Star Wars universe with all the silly design decisions (and players. The RP server does nothing) without constantly being asked to pay them money. It's feels more like being a debtor than being a jedi.

They were celebrating getting 2 million more players with the free-to-play. But honestly thats a fail. They tripled their user base, but I bet it's far less than 1 in 3 who pay money and they won't pay as much. It'll probably give the game more longevity though, as long as they tone down the obnoxiousness

 

[Costia]

I played it for a month when it came out, and the again when it became free to play.
I couldn't stand the F2P version. played it for ~5 minutes and uninstalled it.
What bugged me the most is the lack of the extra quickbars - this presents a real disadvantage in the game since you cant access all of your spells like the paying customers can...
And the small inventory space is beyond a convenience issue. It's unplayable without the paid upgrade.
As for the game itself - its a great single player RPG, not much of an MMO.

 

[RedLister]

The inability to equip "orange" quality gear and not being able to have all three of the crew professions is what really made me scratch my head in disbelief when i tried the game. (i quickly went to a sub) F2P is only really alright if you wanna give it a try for a couple of day to see if you like it a try before you buy or in this case sub if you will. But i personally cannot see the F2P model being enjoyable for much longer then that. The thought of leveling a character to max with those restrictions makes my skin crawl.

Does feel like a "pay to win" or at least a "pay to have a massive advantage" kind of model.

 

[Arina Love]

It's not a free to play game it's a P2P game with free DEMO. you can only effectively play through single player storyline and that's it you will NOT be able to play MMO SWTOR endgame without subscription it's just impossible. SWTOR is P2P game and will stay that way. If you want F2P go play F2P game that were designed as such.

 

[Saxnot]

Just tried at again after having done a trial previously. There's so many restrictions that i can't imagine playing it very long.

By making me pay for even the most essential things like storage space or using high-level items, they've driven me to the conclusion that it's just not worth putting any money or time in it, since the further i get in the game, the more i'll lose if i stop paying. This is the essential mechanic driving most MMO's of course, but if they had made th game more welcoming for F2P players, i would have gone further in the game, which would have made it less attractive to stop playing.

By making it so restrictive at the start, they are keeping people from investing enough time and effort to feel obliged to spend money and keep playing.

 

[The Selkie]

If you don't pay to subscribe to the game then they don't owe you anything. Simple as that. If you've ever subscribed or bought the coins they try to sell you then they lessen the restrictions (I think you get 6 characters, 500,000 credit cap etc.). It's playable as F2P but it's a much better experience as a subscriber, if it wasn't then no one would subscribe.

 

[Costia]

If you don't pay to subscribe to the game then they don't owe you anything. Simple as that. If you've ever subscribed or bought the coins they try to sell you then they lessen the restrictions (I think you get 6 characters, 500,000 credit cap etc.). It's playable as F2P but it's a much better experience as a subscriber, if it wasn't then no one would subscribe.

Looks like you misunderstood the point. nobody owes anything to anyone.
The way F2P usually works is: you try the game, you enjoy the game, you spend money on something you enjoy.
What they did is: you try the game, it sucks, you abandon the game.
So what I am saying is that they are losing customers of an essentially good game due to a badly implemented F2P model.
Sure, it is a fun game when you subscribe, but most people wont get there due to the F2P restrictions. Most people will only see the F2P version and decide based on that. And the F2P isn't fun at all.

 

[snekadid]

So I Decided to reinstall TOR I wanted to see what changed what changes they made with the new free to play model. I only have two words for it...

LOL fail.

For a game with such potential it?s amazing how bad EA is messing up this game. So if you don?t pay a subscription fee:

-can only choose two out of eight races per class.

-can only have 2 characters (you get 12 if you pay the sub)

-must have authorization to use high level gear.

-350,000 credit cap

The list goes on... (http://www.swtor.com/free/features)

So the problem i see with this is that it?s almost like they are punishing you for not paying. They make the game so unpleasant that you would want to pay to make it better right? Wrong, it makes its so unpleasant that as soon as i saw all the restriction I uninstalled the game.

Why would I play a game that punishes me for not paying? To me than its not free to play; its pay to enjoy. But if I can?t enjoy the game without paying then I?m never going to pay. (Am I making sense here?)

I am just shocked at how bad the whole implementation of this game has been, from start to finish, no wonder "John Riccitiello Steps Down Over 'Shortcomings' In Financial Performance".

TLR, How do you feel about SW:TOR's new Free to play system?

CALLED IT! Way back last year when they first announced any possibility of going F2P I said they would go down the Age of Conan route with ridiculous restrictions to free players that would make the game crash and burn harder because no one wants to pay for a game that punishes them for playing the demo. I'm psychic mother fucker! Now give me my cookie or I'll stop your heart with my mind! /vindicationrant

Captcha: feeding frenzy

Yea.... I'm just piling on with everyone else... but it feels good to belong

 

[DEAD34345]

I played it for a month when it came out, and the again when it became free to play.
I couldn't stand the F2P version. played it for ~5 minutes and uninstalled it.
What bugged me the most is the lack of the extra quickbars - this presents a real disadvantage in the game since you cant access all of your spells like the paying customers can...
And the small inventory space is beyond a convenience issue. It's unplayable without the paid upgrade.
As for the game itself - its a great single player RPG, not much of an MMO.

The inventory space upgrades can be bought with in-game currency, and the first few upgrades are cheap enough for it not to be an issue. The quickbar thing is entirely valid, though, and completely ruins the late-game stuff if you're not willing to pay.

OT: Even as someone who has spent money on SWTOR (for a subscription), I have to agree that the F2P model is awful. Not even awful in a profitable way, just plain awful for everyone. I was tempted to buy a race at one point, only to find out that buying a race only gives it to you for that specific "legacy", and almost every other purchase works the same way. Basically, if you play on multiple servers, you'd have to buy that upgrade for every server you wished to use it on. Something I was certainly not willing to do.

Not only that, but buying races seems to be completely impossible for the first character you make on a server. Instead, in order to be able to *give Bioware money*, you'd have to start a character you don't wish to play as and then level up to the point at which you unlock the legacy for that server. *Then* you are granted the privilege of being able to pay for the character you wanted in the first place, and starting again.

 

[The Selkie]

Looks like you misunderstood the point. nobody owes anything to anyone.
The way F2P usually works is: you try the game, you enjoy the game, you spend money on something you enjoy.
What they did is: you try the game, it sucks, you abandon the game.
So what I am saying is that they are losing customers of an essentially good game due to a badly implemented F2P model.
Sure, it is a fun game when you subscribe, but most people wont get there due to the F2P restrictions. Most people will only see the F2P version and decide based on that. And the F2P isn't fun at all.

Given the amount of F2P players I think it's safe to say that a lot of people disagree with you about whether it's fun. What would you propose changing about the current model? What restrictions would you place on F2P that would make it "fun" while still encouraging people to subscribe? Because at the minute you literally play the whole game without spending a penny. Yeah, there'll be times when levelling up is a chore or when you don't have the best gear available, but if you removed those then no one would subscribe.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I like TOR. I think it's a much better game than it gets credit for. I happily subscribed for a couple of months when it was new, and do not regret my purchase. I would not hesitate to recommend it as one of the best of the current crop of MMOs. Naturally, it falls short of the lofty bar set by WoW, and it is not without its problems...particularly at end game...but there is fun to be had.

That said, the FTP model they adopted is punitive and odious. FTP is meant to serve two purposes. First and foremost, it drives the population up. Severs are more vibrant and active, groups are easier to find, PvP is more populous, etc, etc. You can reverse the "everyone is leaving so servers are shrinking which is making everyone leave" doom spiral. Secondly, you can attempt to capitalize on your higher population with clever, enticing micro-transactions. If your shop is too sinister, everyone will notice and complain. If it's too benign, no one will buy anything and will be content with the free model.

TOR accomplishes the double whammy of driving away new players by making it immediately evident that FTP is shackled by innumerable restrictions, and has the gall to nickel and dime you for basic interface functionality and game play features up front, resulting in immediate revolt. They added new players, but they added a fraction of what they should have. Given the age of the game and the strength of the IP, TOR *should* be the #1 NA MMO. Instead it's #3...behind both a PTP and BTP game, despite being FTP. "Bungled" is the best word available for the business model. Only TSW fell on its ass worse in terms of reading the marketplace and positioning the game properly.

Given the amount of F2P players I think it's safe to say that a lot of people disagree with you about whether it's fun.

Nexon is evidence that some people will find just about anything fun, no matter how far their grasping paws reach into your pockets. TOR is underperforming, and has since launch. It sold pretty well, but a general lack of content and design vision resulted in a steep sales drop-off and bleeding of subscribers after the first month (MMO standard), and the huge development cost and IP fee ensured that even their relatively boffo initial sales were insufficient to make the game a financial success, which resulted in staff downsizing and shrinking of the content pipeline, which is essential for sustaining a game's popularity. Then they blew the FTP transition.

Good game, but they put the focus on the wrong things, spent too much, and failed to read where the market was headed.

 

[BrotherRool]

Looks like you misunderstood the point. nobody owes anything to anyone.
The way F2P usually works is: you try the game, you enjoy the game, you spend money on something you enjoy.
What they did is: you try the game, it sucks, you abandon the game.
So what I am saying is that they are losing customers of an essentially good game due to a badly implemented F2P model.
Sure, it is a fun game when you subscribe, but most people wont get there due to the F2P restrictions. Most people will only see the F2P version and decide based on that. And the F2P isn't fun at all.

Given the amount of F2P players I think it's safe to say that a lot of people disagree with you about whether it's fun. What would you propose changing about the current model? What restrictions would you place on F2P that would make it "fun" while still encouraging people to subscribe? Because at the minute you literally play the whole game without spending a penny. Yeah, there'll be times when levelling up is a chore or when you don't have the best gear available, but if you removed those then no one would subscribe.

It's pretty frequently dropping behind Guild Wars (and maybe even Tera?) in numbers, so I don't really know I would call it a success. Given they had 2 million accounts on launch and for every person who bought the game and subscribed to it, they've only managed to entice one extra person to come and play it when they're giving it away for free, I can't describe that as a success.

It's not even that they managed to retain 2 million more people. 2 million people total made accounts since free to play, since they didn't release retention statistics or conversion statistics I bet that not even 1 million of those people are still playing the game (1 million more active users would make a nicer headline). This is supported by the fact that they've just recently closed down another server.


Honestly, I've said above. Making you pay for multiple characters and races is great. Getting money for their game is great. But the way they do it feels like the game is repeatedly punching you for not playing and it gets people to sign up and then quit never to return.

We're not the only people to notice it either
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-gained-more-than-2-million-new-users-since-g

 

[Costia]

Given the amount of F2P players I think it's safe to say that a lot of people disagree with you about whether it's fun.

Do you have any numbers? I have seen articles like this one:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/SWTOR-Free-to-play-Users-2-Million-F2P,21664.html
But if you read carefully it says "new accounts have been created" which tells nothing about the retention rate - i.e. how many out of those 2 million subscribed or bought items from the store.

What would you propose changing about the current model? What restrictions would you place on F2P that would make it "fun" while still encouraging people to subscribe? Because at the minute you literally play the whole game without spending a penny. Yeah, there'll be times when levelling up is a chore or when you don't have the best gear available, but if you removed those then no one would subscribe.

Is quite hard since in my opinion its not really an MMO. For me it was mostly a single player RPG, so one play through will be propbably enough for most people.
In an MMO you could sell things that are only needed in the long run like character number limitation, inventory space that is shared between characters and purely visual enhancements.
A lot of the things they restricted are good choices but the few that aren't, make the game annoying.
I would remove the quick-bar restriction and raise the inventory and credit restrictions so it will only bother you if you play the game for a long time.
I don't quite understand the operations restriction - but if it means you cant get in unless you pay- i would remove that and maybe replace it with a longer cooldown (subscribers can go any time they want, F2P can go only once a month/week/day). But everyone should be able to experience the content (So they will want to come back and do it again).
The item restriction is silly, getting epic loot is a part of what drives an MMO. So instead of "cool, I got an epic" it will be "oh great, another one of those. I can't use it - it's junk." It makes people think that the game is trying to extort money out of them, make them pay real money for their own loot (which they earned by playing and killing the boss or whatever).
A possible way to do something similar is to use something like valor points in WoW. Then set a lower cap for F2P compared to the subscribers - so a F2P player can get enough for 1 epic item/week, and a subscriber can get enough for 2-3.
Restricting chat is another weird one, though I don't quite understand what the restriction is, so it might be fine.
The mail restriction is strange as well. I can understand not allowing to send money or items, but not allowing to send a text mail? whats the point in that?
As a general idea, I would want people to be able to communicate freely in the game, so they would meet more new friends - it will make them play more. It will make them want to come back to the game even if it is just to chat (Stormwind trade chat in WoW is a game of its own).

 

[Zenn3k]

Sounds almost as bad as Star Trek online. They only give you ONE character slot to start and cross-toon bank is $10.

Thats probably the MOST restrictive game in terms of what you need to BUY to make it playable I've ever seen. You can technically farm for everything, but it takes like an entire day of grinding to buy a $5 item.

However.

Star Trek Online is actually fun to play! Ship combat is super fun, reminds me the old Star Fleet Academy games.

SW:TOR isn't fun, its super boring. HUGE walking space between everything to order to make you spend 5 extra minutes to accomplish anything.

Star Trek Online's star bases...basically everything is all in 1 spot, making it quick and easy to do whatever you wanna do. Traveling by impulse through space can be time consuming, but you also get to check out other ships flying around...and spaceships are awesome

Ground combat in STO is pretty meh, half tacked on WoW clone. While SW:TOR is a full fledged WoW clone on the ground...and its space combat is a boring mini-game.

The only thing I liked more about SW:TOR was all the voice acting, it sucks reading again in STO, but then again, SW:TOR's stories mostly sucked as well.

At least STO doesn't restrict the high end gear. Thats the worst idea EVER. Next to preventing F2P players from chatting with others, thats also very very bad. Its an MMO, you need to be able to talk to people...or you quit.

 

[BoogieManFL]

In my opinion they gimped and ruined the game so much, it's more just like an unending demo that you can play as long as you want but can't enjoy anything new. You can't really enjoy the game or even reasonably play it unless you give them money every month.

I was pissed off I wasted $80 on a deluxe edition, only to have free to play come around and it looked like I had NOTHING for that extra money. If I paid a month I'd be in the same spot as someone who just downloaded it and paid a month. Those dumb little preorder items aren't worth anything either so they don't count. I mean, I gave you pricks 80 bucks (bad idea I know) and I can't even get enough hotbars to play my lvl 50 char? Screw you. Uninstall.

 

[Simonoly]

I tried it out late last year with the F2P model and found it very unwelcoming. I didn't mind the race limitation and other cosmetic components that were only accessible with a sub or paying cartel coins, but so much of the basic functionality is placed behind a pay wall that's it completely overwhelming for new players. By the end of my first week I kind of wanted to get as far away from it as I could, so uninstalled it.

I don't understand how EA/Bioware are getting this so wrong. Surely it would have made more sense to not have any restrictions, but then pump the cartel market with as much Star Wars themed skins, toys and memorabilia as they could possibly muster. Draw in new customers with a love of all things Star Wars and then pounce on them with awesome-sauce Star wars themed everything! I mean, it's Star Wars, all the ground work has already been done for you.

 

[Newtonyd]

I'm really happy a game like this exists. It sets a prime example to other MMO creators about what they should and, more importantly, should NOT do. Even ignoring their business model, let's take a look at the laundry list of developer sins:

1. Boring hotbar and targetting based combat mimicking a game that came out almost a decade ago.

2. Little attention or polish for PVP and endgame, the things that keep players for the long haul that you MUST do well for a subscription MMO.

3. Too much focus on campaign storyline which, no matter how well it is designed, (and I've heard it isn't all that special) still creates content that can be consumed once before the player is done with it. Besides, stories that the players create themselves with other actual people will almost always be better than anything writers can script, simply because it has authenticity.

4. Dull graphics, hallways, grinding, on-a-rail space shooters, etc.

I really hope other developers are taking notice.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

From the other end of the perspective: Those of us who don't feel it's all necessary in the first place or don't even care get to have fun shooting, slashing, and having fun exploring and fighting without paying a damn cent. I rather like my assassin's story. Since I never really read many of the books or played any of the other games, this is a fresh and interesting world to me, and fun. The only reason I haven't played recently is because of other games I want to get to and such. And oh! Since I'm not paying for anything, I guess I'm not obligated to keep going for as long as a subscription or something lasts! Granted, there are things that they decided to lock off. But pardon me while I laugh. We don't like EA much on this board, so isn't it perfect irony that I get my fill of some Star Wars and stick it to 'em without spending a cent?