Switzerland to Ban Violent Videogames

[Sworm]

edit: oups, double post, Sorry about that!

Maybe they don't understand why violence of extreme gore is necessary in a videogame?

Maybe they don't have high crime at all, and they just don't care for the violence for it's own sake in videogames?

There is a strawman argument used frequently in this type of discussion that goes along the line of: "people who don't want violent videogames don't want it because they think it causes violence". Many violent videogame "proponents" can't seem to wrap their head around the idea that people may exist who simply just don't want it because they don't see any benefit associated with it.

Sometimes the question isn't "why shouldn't we?", rather "why should we?"

Again, I Tend to agree with you IF this motion only concerned extremely violent games such as Manhunt or those that are unnecessarily violent such as (imo) GTA. However you should know that these motions, inspired by these games as they may be, go beyond and include so much as PEGI 16 games which are classified as being:

"This rating is applied once the depiction of violence (or sexual activity) reaches a stage that looks the same as would be expected in real life. More extreme bad language, the concept of the use of tobacco and drugs and the depiction of criminal activities can be content of games that are rated 16. "

basically it would include a level of violence you have either already seen (be it IRL or in fiction) or expect to see.

now don't Get me wrong there ARE games which are for all intents and proposes violent, such as AC, ME, Splinter cell series, and so on. However, none of them actually shows blood or body parts splattering all over the place, and if they do at some point, nothing worse then what you can see in some movies or TV shows. And there ARE games(sometimes even entire studios, I'm thinking about you Rockstar! personal opinion of course) which take it too far and I would agree to a severe restriction or (depending on the game) a ban on them.

But the thing is, this isn't about "not depicting violence because we think it's unnecessary", it's about finding a scapegoat for something that isn't even an actual issue (young people becoming violent, nada nada) If it really were about depicting violence they would have extended this motion to movies, books, TV shows and even music! and guess what? it's simply not the case!

They are implicitly considering every gamer that play 16+ games to be irresponsible and a violent sociopath in the making (I'm probably exaggerating here, but still, I'll assume you get my point) Which is sort of odd considering the fact that our only permitted firearms are our army guns which have to be unloaded at all times, and I rarely if not never here about someone going on a killing spree with a knife or other object with killing potential.

 

[Jared]

Looks like Australia offically has an Ally...at least Atkinson anyway.

Its a shame really, gotta love these democracies, huh?

 

[The Unskilled78]

Are they going to ban violent TV shows? Movies? Are they going to ban sadists and masochists? Where does the insanity end?
and because Sir Patrick Stewart can say it better than I... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJN08uqt70]

 

[Treblaine]

Spoiler

Politician: "hmm PEGI have rated these games as suitable for people of 18+... so therefore NO ONE should be allowed to play them"

Sane Swiss-lander: "but what about people who ARE 18 years old or older, as the very DEFINITION of the 18+ rating that PEGI uses is that the games are suitable for 18 year olds and up"

Politician: "..."

Sane Swiss: "What about censorship? It is one thing to censor things from young children but another thing to censor the media of free adult citizens"

Politician: "..."

Sane Swiss: "What about how this law will completely undermine the rating system and encourage PEGI to give adult rated games a lower rating as an 18+ rating would be an effective ban, which may not be suitable. This draconian law forces the industry to choose between exposing youngsters to more violence or deliver a massive blow to a studio who can spend many years and millions of dollars on a single game, where a ban could ruin them"

Politician: "..."

Sane: "Well, don't you have anything to say?"

Politician: "I didn't think this through, I don't give a crap two ways about video games, all I know is there are a whole lot of old fogies out there who will love me if I ban New things that scare them so I'll be able to cling a hold of power just a little longer. Don't you see, I NEED Votes, and I'll lie, betray and destroy anything to get validation and power. Like the minarets, utterly pointless debate and they mean so much to Muslims but think about all those old conservatives who vote every election without fail, they'd love to deprive the Muslims a part of their temples."

Sane swiss: "Ah, I see. You're a whore"

Politician: "No, more like a pimp. I'm sacrificing what OTHERS have for my OWN gain"

Awesome.

I would've copy/pasted that, replacing 'politician' with Michael Atkinson and 'sane swiss' with anyone, but I don't like plagiarism.

Please, don't hesitate to copy/pasta my work, especially for a good cause. Remember, I'm going by an anonymous pseudonym, if I wanted recognition for what I write I'd use my real name. But maybe just mention that it IS copy/pasta and I'd be happy with that and I wouldn't consider it plagiarism at all as long as you simply state you got it from somewhere else with permission.

 

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

It seems that they (as a nation) have decided that they don't want it in their country.

And that gives me the clawing and incorrigible impression that people there are boring, no matter what might be the contrary.

Essentially every male over 21 in their country is an active (and armed) reservist... if that helps.

I find it amusing therefore that the Swiss army hasn't been deployed to fight in a war in rather a while.

"All our guys are ready and able to fight." Oh, whoopdedoo Switzerland - it'd be nice for that to actually mean something apart from a peacekeeping mission.

Seeing as they maintain their neutrality at all costs, I find there is little to no point to making sure everyone there is trained.

 

[Bobby_C]

EDIT:

Surely they can just hop on a train to France, Germany, etc?

Next we'll be hearing about gamers caught smuggling contraband across the borders . . .

Well Yes we can... those of us who live near borders anyway (good thing I do!) but it's still quite a bit of a... how shall I put this?... "intense pain in the lower rear section of the base of our Swiss bodies?"

Besides, if it really comes to smuggling, we'll all be counting on you folks for supplies on the battlefield! (& the internet)

No need to smuggle anything. Unless I misunderstood something those laws are meant to apply to retailers, not customers (who are permitted a great deal of stuff under swiss law). You could still buy your God of War 3 on amazon UK or play-asia or whatever, so non-casual gamers won't be affected much by the law.

I find it amusing therefore that the Swiss army hasn't been deployed to fight in a war in rather a while.

"All our guys are ready and able to fight." Oh, whoopdedoo Switzerland - it'd be nice for that to actually mean something apart from a peacekeeping mission.

Seeing as they maintain their neutrality at all costs, I find there is little to no point to making sure everyone there is trained.

Actually neutrality's the whole point behind what you mention. The core principle of swiss neutrality's basically "We'll stay out of your business, but keep out or we'll have to kick your butt". Thus the doctrine only works if there's a sizeable army behind it to give weight to it, and deploying this army outside switzerland with any offensive capability without a prior attack on swiss soil would in fact be unconstitutional. It's "All our guys are ready and able to fight back", and the nuance has basically been a core of swiss constitution for more centuries than, say, free speech in the US.

 

[Macgyvercas]

No way. But what will they blame everything on now?

Movies. Then TV. Then schools.

But god forbid they make people actually take responsability for their actions.

This post wins. That's the problem with the world. Everyone wants to blame someone else for their own problems.

 

[Bobby_C]

I hate to sound anarchistic (I'm not) but will we ever see a government that isn't inept?

A government is a bunch of people allowed to decide things in your stead, so that they won't cater to your every whim is inevitable. And switzerland's an even more interesting example since its political system allows much more decisional input from citizens than your average democracy, so it's necessary to understand that if this law does end up being made (and it hasn't been yet) and isn't struck down by a popular vote in the following year, it'll really mean that it's what the majority of voting citizens want and you'll have to blame the inept people, not the inept governement.

 

[Sworm]

No need to smuggle anything. Unless I misunderstood something those laws are meant to apply to retailers, not customers (who are permitted a great deal of stuff under swiss law). You could still buy your God of War 3 on amazon UK or play-asia or whatever, so non-casual gamers won't be affected much by the law.

Just checked and your are absolutely right, it only applies to retailers, cheers for instructing me on my own country's laws

 

[Nuke_em_05]

Essentially every male over 21 in their country is an active (and armed) reservist... if that helps.

Not exactly no, the recently instated a choice where we could either do the military service, or do the civil service which is longer but more flexible, many people opt for that now, so many in fact that they are considering removing the choice. (earlier we could only do the civil service after writing a letter of conflict in conscience and a psych evaluation)

Well, the more you know. I looked into it a while back, so there you go, times change. I kinda like the idea of a compulsory civil or military service, kind of a rite of passage into being active in government. I'm a civil servant (that is, employee, not elected official for those of you reading along at home) here in the states, and it amazes me how much people don't understand about their own government.

Anyway, from what I understand of the Swiss government; even if this is only pushed right now by legislators, the people can have the final say: it either goes to popular vote initially, or if the public responds enough, it can go to popular vote.

I just found it funny how so many people are arguing how they must think it causes violence and crime and such, when Switzerland is actually pretty well devoid of that sort of thing. Not that crime and violence doesn't happen there, but it certainly isn't at a "problem to solve with legislation" level.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

Essentially every male over 21 in their country is an active (and armed) reservist... if that helps.

I find it amusing therefore that the Swiss army hasn't been deployed to fight in a war in rather a while.

"All our guys are ready and able to fight." Oh, whoopdedoo Switzerland - it'd be nice for that to actually mean something apart from a peacekeeping mission.

Seeing as they maintain their neutrality at all costs, I find there is little to no point to making sure everyone there is trained.

Actually, that is the entire point. And according to Sworm, it has changed a little.

For several centuries, the area known as Switzerland played doorstep to the empires of Europe, starting with the Romans, then the Germans, then the Franks, then the Italians, then the Germans again... at one point they were taking sides and assisting for their own game, and after a while they came to a remarkable conclusion; war is stupid.

Maintaining their armed defenses is absolutely necessary to their ends of peace. Geographically, they would be the perfect central control and logistics point for any country trying to take over Europe. Not allowing any armies to pass through has slowed down many wars. Obviously, if they just stood at the borders and said; "no! bad Germans! don't bring your tanks through here!" and shook a finger at them; the Germans would have politely walked away... or steamrolled them with their tanks. Hence armed neutrality.

That's kind of a butchered short-hand summary, but essentially; if you're in the middle of Europe and you want to stay neutral, you had better be prepared fend off those who would rather use you as a doormat to the rest of the continent.

 

[EnzoHonda]

This is karma for not participating in WWII. I never get the attacks on video games. "They're violent" Yeah, so are movies, music, TV, sports... "Yeah, but they're for kids." Yeah, so are movies, music, TV, sports...

Switzerland is interesting in ways like this. Motor-sports have been completely banned there since the 1955 Le Mans disaster. So their bans can stick if they want them to.

Oh, and the only way to be neutral is to have an army and never use it. If you go fight somewhere else, you're no longer neutral. I know there was some talk among newsies that Canada should go for neutrality. Then everyone realized we'd need 10 times the military budget, twice the population, and 1/3 the land-mass to even begin to think of declaring neutrality.

 

[MurderousToaster]

Owch.

Poor Switzerland.

And Australia and Germany thought they had it bad.

 

[T-Bone24]

Also home of the Geneva Convention and the Red Cross.

Go figure they have some sort of opposition to violence in videogames.

Very well, but to outright ban a form of media which features nothing worse than the content of mature films, television and books is just insulting. Those forms of media aren't banned, so why should ours?

 

[Sworm]

Actually, that is the entire point. And according to Sworm, it has changed a little.

For several centuries, the area known as Switzerland played doorstep to the empires of Europe, starting with the Romans, then the Germans, then the Franks, then the Italians, then the Germans again... at one point they were taking sides and assisting for their own game, and after a while they came to a remarkable conclusion; war is stupid.

Maintaining their armed defenses is absolutely necessary to their ends of peace. Geographically, they would be the perfect central control and logistics point for any country trying to take over Europe. Not allowing any armies to pass through has slowed down many wars. Obviously, if they just stood at the borders and said; "no! bad Germans! don't bring your tanks through here!" and shook a finger at them; the Germans would have politely walked away... or steamrolled them with their tanks. Hence armed neutrality.

That's kind of a butchered short-hand summary, but essentially; if you're in the middle of Europe and you want to stay neutral, you had better be prepared fend off those who would rather use you as a doormat to the rest of the continent.

It works that way in theory but Switzerland's biggest asset in neutrality isn't so much the dissuasive military as it is their role in global economy. And adding to that the fact that almost nobody who did their military service actually has much faith in our own military. Some of the reservist even think that if someone really REALLY wanted to invade us, they could realistically do it. But not having done my service yet, I can only judge based on second hand accounts.

A government controlled mainly by the people is just as inept as the people, if not more. This is why we need supercomputers that aren't bent on the destruction of all organic life-forms.

They would probably come to the conclusion that we'll destroy ourselves and nature around us anyway, thus they'll exterminate us to preserve at least nature, or commit digital Harakiri to save themselves the humiliation of being destroyed. Either way we're screwed

 

[Harmondale2]

what is this world coming too...

 

[RelexCryo]

No way. But what will they blame everything on now?

Blame everything on? Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. There is nothing TO blame on games. Almost no one gets shot or raped. They are banning games even though nothing bad actually happens in Switzerland...this is just mind numbingly stupid.

Switzerland used to be one of the greatest countries in the world in my opinion...their citizens had a right to bear arms, right to direct referandum, they had a low crime rate, and they had compasssion for the poor and the destitute, paying for the medical care and housing for them.

This just disgusts me. I feel betrayed. I used to be a huge fan of Switzerland.