Taco's Unofficial Guide to All-Things Gender/Sex/Sexuality

[Euryalus]

This seems more complicated than necessary. Gah! Why can't everyone identify as a robot and reproduce by budding?

Seriously though... Cool... I guess... I did know quite a bit about intersex conditions before hand though. Yay bio classes!

 

[Olas]

Jesus, I had no clue something as simple as gender could be so complicated. Though to be fair a lot of these sound synonymous or very similar. For instance:

Agender: Person without a gender

Neutrois: A person who doesn't see themselves as any gender

or

Androgyne: Person who cannot be classified into the typical gender roles of their society; independent of orientation

Non-binary: Gender identities that don't fit within the accepted binary of male and female

Also, I fail to see what asexuality has to do with the rest of these.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Honestly? Some of those definitions sound exactly the same only worded differently.

At least I will know what those mean until I forget about all this again.

 

[Ratty]

Thanks for the thread Taco, I saw the original one but didn't want to spend Valentine's day on the net trying to explain some of this stuff. Then the thread was locked.

Jesus, I had no clue something as simple as gender could be so complicated. Though to be fair a lot of these sound synonymous or very similar. For instance:

Agender: Person without a gender

Neutrois: A person who doesn't see themselves as any gender

or

Androgyne: Person who cannot be classified into the typical gender roles of their society; independent of orientation

Non-binary: Gender identities that don't fit within the accepted binary of male and female

Also, I fail to see what asexuality has to do with the rest of these.

But it's not simple, it's something that is culturally defined. Which is why what's "masculine" and what's "feminine" varies by culture and time.

In addition, the "scientific" idea of binary physical sex is largely if not wholly a social construct as well.
Since by any scientific definition of "male" or "female" sex you want to give there are millions of people who don't fit neatly into them. Most noticeably in people with the "wrong" secondary sex characteristics, men with breasts, women with facial hair etc.[footnote]The same kind of people who are marginalized today as not fitting "the ideal of masculine or feminine beauty".[/footnote]

But also in the fact that we now know that XX and XY aren't the only chromosomal arrangements, neatly separating "women" from "men". You'll also see XXY, XYY and other arrangements. The millions of people with such characteristics are, scientifically, intersex. No matter what their gender identity. Yet you never see them mentioned because it conflicts with our orderly little binary idea of physical sex.

 

[Musette]

It's commendable to see someone try to compile a list like this on here, and I can only hope that no shitstorms start brewing here.

It might help though to differentiate between gender and biological sex though, because otherwise the conversation gets really bogged down and confusing. Most of the dialogue I hear uses male/female/intersex as biological sex, though some prefer to use "male/female assigned at birth" instead. Man/woman/genderqueer/etc. tend to be used more typically as gender identities. For some, the distinction clarifies the conversation a bit, but the posts are clear even without using this concept, so I guess it doesn't matter too much.

Asexual does have a more precise definition that's more often touted, stating that an asexual "does not experience sexual attraction", but the definition of sexual attraction is so nebulous, that I con understand why someone might use more tangible terms to describe the term.

I do have mixed feelings about over labeling, because sometimes, I do find it a bit excessive, but then I realize that people might think I'm over labeling myself simply by identifying as asexual (even moreso if we mention the whole 'aromantic' thing, but I use that term as it is convenient to me online and simply describe myself without explicitly using the term otherwise). Humans naturally have a bias toward categorical thinking, and with the way search engines work, over-labeling often acts as a gateway to incredibly niche communities, even if some of said communities get a wee bit bizarre (I draw the line at labels like sapiosexual, lithromantic, trans-ethnic, otherkin, and Demi-vegetarian.)

The one thing I find bizarre though is that while there is so much talk here about people dividing themselves too much with these labels, I find that more catch-all labels tend to be met with flak for not saying enough about the person to be useful. I think that's primarily an issue with the term "queer" if anything, and there quite a bit of debate about what falls under its umbrella as well. The majority if the gender terms on that list tend to be unified under "genderqueer". I've been exposed to 95% of those terms pretty frequently over the past two years or so, and while they're helpful for a lot of people, they've made the entire concept of gender way too abstract for my tastes, to the point that I've refused to slap any label on myself in regards to gender. People can instantly tell that I'm female, so I just leave it at that and leave any musings I have on gender rather private.

 

[IceForce]

Is this real? The reason I ask is because this OP is known for making threads that aren't serious, so I was wondering if this thread was another one of those.

If this is real however, I can't help but feel this seems a lot like reinventing the wheel.

But whatever, people are free to call themselves whatever they want.

 

[Olas]

In addition, the "scientific" idea of binary physical sex is largely if not wholly a social construct as well.
Since by any scientific definition of "male" or "female" sex you want to give there are millions of people who don't fit neatly into them. Most noticeably in people with the "wrong" secondary sex characteristics, men with breasts, women with facial hair etc.[footnote]The same kind of people who are marginalized today as not fitting "the ideal of masculine or feminine beauty".[/footnote]

But also in the fact that we now know that XX and XY aren't the only chromosomal arrangements, neatly separating "women" from "men". You'll also see XXY, XYY and other arrangements. The millions of people with such characteristics are, scientifically, intersex. No matter what their gender identity. Yet you never see them mentioned because it conflicts with our neat and tidy little binary box idea.

I don't know if someone's chromosomes can be considered part of a "social construct" or not, to be frank I think our "neat and tidy little binary box idea" exists because the vast majority of people fall directly into it and trying to account for all these possible variants can be a logistical nightmare sometimes.

I of course am aware that there are people who's bodies and minds fall outside what is considered a traditional norm, in ways that do and don't pertain to gender and sex. I just wonder if we're being overly technical and categorical and a bit redundant about all this. I mean do we really need Cis, Cis-gender, Cis-male, and Cis-gender male? All 4 of which I fall into.

 

[Ratty]

I don't know if someone's chromosomes can be considered part of a "social construct" or not,

By themselves of course they can't. But to ignore entire swathes of the human population without (or with hardly) a mention because they conflict with a neat and tidy idea is definitely social construction. The sexual binary is not a scientific idea, science is about truth not boiling things down until they're pleasantly un-complex.

to be frank I think our "neat and tidy little binary box idea" exists because the vast majority of people fall directly into it and trying to account for all these possible variants can be a logistical nightmare sometimes.

Science is all about logistical nightmares. I'm not saying every time the subject of physical sex comes up in a classroom all the different nonstandard variations have to be listed, but the fact that they exist shouldn't be hidden or brushed aside.

I of course am aware that there are people who's bodies and minds fall outside what is considered a traditional norm, in ways that do and don't pertain to gender and sex. I just wonder if we're being overly technical and categorical and a bit redundant about all this. I mean do we really need Cis, Cis-gender, Cis-male, and Cis-gender male? All 4 of which I fall into.

The more important something is, the more words we tend to have for it. (The classic is example is- "How many euphemisms for having sex can you think of?" and that's just in your native language!) Most people who don't fit the standard tend to think of their gender identity and sexuality as important, hence the redundancy. I agree that standardizing definitions so that everyone can be clear on what you mean is needed, but that won't happen if we never talk about the words and their definitions in the first place.

 

[Yuno Gasai]

I like the guide you've posted. It makes for a nice reference for those who are unfamiliar with the terms listed.

I feel it's also worth adding to your guide that if you're ever in doubt about what gender someone is (or how they like to be called/referred to), simply ask them.

A few moments of awkwardness save you accidentally offending them later on. They might also be happy you've taken an interest.

 

[Muspelheim]

WURGH WHY DO I HAVE TO LERN ALL THESE LONG WORDS WHY CANT PEOPLE JUST BE WHAT I THINK THEY ARE

(And so on and so on through eternity...)

Neat little initiative, Taco! Rather interesting read, and it'll no doubt become useful sometime.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

And there you have it... I thought Pangender was when you beleive that everything from the waist down resembles a goat...

I am so glad I don't need to learn all this in my current life... I would have a better chance of understanding string theory than this...

 

[Pandaman1911]

Phwoar. I think they'd have an easier time if they just made the gender slot a little box where you can type in whatever the hell you want, rather than a drop-down box.

 

[Something Amyss]

*This thread is still in Early Access Beta so it isn't an exhaustive list as of yet; please be patient as I try to know what/what not to put here

Oh no, Jim Sterling warned me about your kind! I will not buy this thread until I have a reasonable expectation of a complete thread!

But seriously, good job and I hope you keep expanding it. I can't think of anything missing at the moment, but I'll be sure to nag you if I do. >.>

But also in the fact that we now know that XX and XY aren't the only chromosomal arrangements, neatly separating "women" from "men". You'll also see XXY, XYY and other arrangements. The millions of people with such characteristics are, scientifically, intersex. No matter what their gender identity. Yet you never see them mentioned because it conflicts with our orderly little binary idea of physical sex.

And we have XY women and XX men. I'm not even talking about transfolk here.

I don't know if someone's chromosomes can be considered part of a "social construct" or not, to be frank I think our "neat and tidy little binary box idea" exists because the vast majority of people fall directly into it and trying to account for all these possible variants can be a logistical nightmare sometimes.

Chromosomes don't fit into the concept of social construct, but the way we as a society handle them do.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Thanks for list the list. I didn't know what a lot of these meant. Now I feel like I have enough knowledge to truly say this is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Not your list just the fact that these words even exist. Why is this is thing? Male, female, transgender/transsexual and asexual are literally the only ones that have any reason to exist. Beyond that its just people who are desperate for attention and feel the need to be special. The only thing worse than that is the people who, instead of calling them out on it, actually support it to fit some sort of perfect, politically correct world view. Just because it hurts your feelings doesn't mean its wrong or exclusionary.

It's not about "why can't people be what I think they are, big words are confusing hurr de hurr" in fact it is the exact opposite. It's about what people ACTUALLY are and the world not wanting to cater to every tom, harry and sally who wants everyone to use a new phrase to describe them because they don't feel special enough. Ultimately if you do support this you should realize where and why this originated. This all comes down to feminism and its goal of totally deconstructing gender from a social standpoint. This plays into the raising kids gender neutral, you are what you identify as gender politics that wants to erase all meaning behind gender in hopes of achieving %100 socialist equality. All you are doing is helping someone else and their political ideology. Cultural marxism at work.

 

[Coakle]

Spoiler: Transgender

Transgender: An umbrella term that refers to those with identities that cross over, move between, or otherwise challenge the socially constructed border between the genders

Transgender is a term that gets used a lot, so I feel that the current definition is too vague.

Spoiler: Clarifying Ho?

From The American Psychological Society [https://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx#]

Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth.

Gender identity refers to a person's internal sense of being male, female or something else;

Gender expression refers to the way a person communicates gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, hairstyles, voice or body characteristics.

end of APA definition

Kinds of people who fall under the Transgender Umbrella

(I'm using America in the 1950's as my social system, naturally who is transgender will change based on the gender roles for each society)

Gays
Transsexuals
Transvestites
Metro-Sexuals
Stay-at-home men
Women Doctors
Girls that play baseball
Guys with long hair

Really, anyone who's behavior does not conform to their gender roles could identify as transgender.


Unfortunatly, the APA definition kind of is a bit divorced from the reality of how people actual use the word. I feel the Gender Spectrum website hits closer the the colloquial use.

Gender Spectrum [https://www.genderspectrum.org/understanding-gender] - Also does a nice job defining other gender terms.
More narrowly defined, it refers to an individual whose gender identity does not match their assigned birth gender.

I found that I started to understand how someone could be gender fluid once I learned about other social constructs. The comparisons I drew from the social constructs of race made the most sense to me. Y'know how a person who had a black Mom and white Dad might choose to identify themselves as black, mixed, or white based on what kind of social setting they are in. I figure it is kinda like that?

I might be on the wrong track, I've only began reading about it recently.

A short, good read was this 20 page section in Gender and Society.


Negotiating the Color Line: The Gendered Process of Racial Identity Construction among Black/White Biracial Women
-by Kerry Ann Rockquemore

 

[tangoprime]

So, when is the escapist going to let me change that gender symbol in my profile? I think they need to follow facebook's lead, and create a new gender symbol for every single one of those. Or, y'know, just drop the "gender" thing and have a check box for Penis or Vagina. I think I could get behind that.

Okay, just sidetracked myself... how great would it be if more places decided to be politically correct simply by NOT having "gender" or "sex" as an option, and just did that. Can you imagine filling out government paperwork, such as application for a drivers license and indicating "Penis" or "Vagina" instead of M or F... or holy shit, IDs having an "Sexual Organ: P" or "Sexual Organ: V" instead of M or F?

 

[Erttheking]

You might want to add Gender Fluid. Basically it's someone who kinda flows back and forth between gender identifies. An acquaintance of mine is gender fluid, sometimes likes to be called she, but recently wants to be called he.

These terms can be a little complicated and some of these terms feel like synonyms but the Hell with it, its harmless.

Also people need to learn gender =/= Sex

Sex is do you have a penis or a vagina.

Gender is which social niche you fit into, male or female

 

[PsychicTaco115]

PATCH UPDATE 1.0

Snip 1

Snip 2

*Added/Changed words to be more clear

*Toying with idea of vides/pictures/graphs

*Grammar, spelling and formatting bugs in process of being fixed

 

[Weaver]

There is also pansexual!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality

It's a sexual orientation though, not a gender identity.