Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[Ginger768]

And the next time he tries it? Suppose they bring their own weapons, because they know he has one. What then? See, you're not thinking long term. This is an action that could very easily have gotten him killed, not just hurt.

This is assuming that the 6 bullies are all brutal criminal psychopaths with no fear of injury, instead of 6 homophobic douches that are trying to make themselves feel superior.

What do you want the kid to do? Many people here have already said that a beating is more lethal than a civilian stun gun.

The schools tend to ignore this problem, and even if they do punish the bullies they'll just come after him even harder.

The way i see it there are 3 options.

1) Take the beating and risk injury, and add the decent chance the bullies will come back to beat you again.

2) Tell the authorities
a) They do nothing and nothing changes or
b) the bullies come back after you even harder because you snitched on them.

3) fight back and risk the small chance that the bullies will jeopardize their life to come after you with weapons.

I find this assertion of only three option possible to be rather disingenuous. Why couldn't he just switch schools? Yeah it's a pain in the ass but i'd imagine it's less of a pain in the ass than taking a boot up your rear end.

Bullies could be at the other school is a flaw i could see with that option.

internet classes are a plausible alternative.

If he has no friends or any other social activity I disagree. He needs to learn to interact with people in the real world. A school is the best place to do this.

This kid is likely afraid of people in general after being bullied to the point he thought a stun gun was nessecary and then being bullied by the school system from being irrational from fear at their lack of ability to help or protect him.

 

[Burst6]

And the next time he tries it? Suppose they bring their own weapons, because they know he has one. What then? See, you're not thinking long term. This is an action that could very easily have gotten him killed, not just hurt.

This is assuming that the 6 bullies are all brutal criminal psychopaths with no fear of injury, instead of 6 homophobic douches that are trying to make themselves feel superior.

What do you want the kid to do? Many people here have already said that a beating is more lethal than a civilian stun gun.

The schools tend to ignore this problem, and even if they do punish the bullies they'll just come after him even harder.

The way i see it there are 3 options.

1) Take the beating and risk injury, and add the decent chance the bullies will come back to beat you again.

2) Tell the authorities
a) They do nothing and nothing changes or
b) the bullies come back after you even harder because you snitched on them.

3) fight back and risk the small chance that the bullies will jeopardize their life to come after you with weapons.

I find this assertion of only three option possible to be rather disingenuous. Why couldn't he just switch schools? Yeah it's a pain in the ass but i'd imagine it's less of a pain in the ass than taking a boot up your rear end.

Usually switching schools needs the parent to move to another home unless your county has multiple high schools, and of course this is assuming that the person has no friends in that school. And even if he does move to a new school it would have to be far away in a less homophobic area. Unless he suppresses his homosexuality (which is not a good solution).

And for all we know they own their house or are poor to move or maybe there's something else that binds the mother to that location.

 

[Ginger768]

Are we implying that he had nowhere to run or hide? That these bullies would follow him to his new school for the single purpose of bullying him further?

'We' are implying that there are assholes wherever you go. That he may just as well be exchanging one set for another.

We are implying that giving all the power to the predators and tormentors is not a viable strategy.

no, no it is not, because brandishing a weapon is inviting a predator to get even more violent.

here's an idea. don't even change schools. find a lawyer, and file a restraining order. it's not guaranteed to work I know, but it can, and if it does, those bullies would then be forced to transfer to another district, or face arrest.

I imagine if he did this it would attract media attention which is the opposite of what most kids being bullied would want. It would only attract more negative interaction between his peers. Either by ignoring him and gossip, or further bullying.

 

[Athinira]

Again, it doesn't have to be a gun, a stun gun isn't allowed in school with good reason. The kid was wrong to bring a stun gun to school.

If your life is in danger, you are never in the wrong to defend yourself, and if it's an extremely life-threatening situation (which a 6vs1 can easily be), then you are NOT in the wrong to do anything you can to save your own life. You can't reasonably expect any person in the world to put rules in front of their own life.

The justice system in most modern countries also works like this. Even someone who has broken the law can get off easier (or get off totally) if the circumstances was very special. Someone i knew once got away with violently using an improvised weapon, because it was a 15 vs. 1 situation, and the judge saw it reasonable for him to defend himself.

No rule can account for everything. That's why we, as human being, have to weight each situation and circumstance appropriately. In this case, the kid brought a very non-lethal weapon, had reason to believe his life and safety was in danger, and he didn't use the weapon actively (only to threaten his way out) and he was the victim. That's acceptable circumstances for bringen an otherwise legal weapon to school (only the school rules forbid it, not the law).

 

[senordesol]

Are we implying that he had nowhere to run or hide? That these bullies would follow him to his new school for the single purpose of bullying him further?

'We' are implying that there are assholes wherever you go. That he may just as well be exchanging one set for another.

We are implying that giving all the power to the predators and tormentors is not a viable strategy.

no, no it is not, because brandishing a weapon is inviting a predator to get even more violent.

here's an idea. don't even change schools. find a lawyer, and file a restraining order. it's not guaranteed to work I know, but it can, and if it does, those bullies would then be forced to transfer to another district, or face arrest.

Lawyers can be expensive, and proving the case is time consuming.

I am not saying that I want our children to walk around with weapons in their pocket. I am saying that schools need to do a better job of protecting their students in the first place. And that when they FAIL to do so, we don't act like someone engaged in the simple act of protecting themselves is some sort of unrestrained psycho.

Again, I made allowances that Young should suffer some form of mild reprimand simply for breaking the rules; but what is at issue here is that the system FAILED him and, according to you, there's nothing wrong with that. According to you, he should just run and hide and hope and pray that the folks at his next school don't sniff him out and begin the cycle anew.

 

[Ginger768]

And the next time he tries it? Suppose they bring their own weapons, because they know he has one. What then? See, you're not thinking long term. This is an action that could very easily have gotten him killed, not just hurt.

This is assuming that the 6 bullies are all brutal criminal psychopaths with no fear of injury, instead of 6 homophobic douches that are trying to make themselves feel superior.

What do you want the kid to do? Many people here have already said that a beating is more lethal than a civilian stun gun.

The schools tend to ignore this problem, and even if they do punish the bullies they'll just come after him even harder.

The way i see it there are 3 options.

1) Take the beating and risk injury, and add the decent chance the bullies will come back to beat you again.

2) Tell the authorities
a) They do nothing and nothing changes or
b) the bullies come back after you even harder because you snitched on them.

3) fight back and risk the small chance that the bullies will jeopardize their life to come after you with weapons.

I find this assertion of only three option possible to be rather disingenuous. Why couldn't he just switch schools? Yeah it's a pain in the ass but i'd imagine it's less of a pain in the ass than taking a boot up your rear end.

Bullies could be at the other school is a flaw i could see with that option.

internet classes are a plausible alternative.

If he has no friends or any other social activity I disagree. He needs to learn to interact with people in the real world. A school is the best place to do this.

This kid is likely afraid of people in general after being bullied to the point he thought a stun gun was nessecary and then being bullied by the school system from being irrational from fear at their lack of ability to help or protect him.

I point to my above post, restraining orders are another choice.

Also, totally a side point, but victims of bullies like this typically don't have very many friends to begin with, if any at all.

Which is why he needs to find friends. And i doubt he'll start making any by filing restraining orders or running away. I'm not sure there is a good solution to any of this and may just be a damned if you do damned if you don't thing. Maybe online school and having no friends IRL is the best option. But it's a far from ideal one. The only thing i think that needs to be changed for certain is his punishment which is silly. He was trying to defend himself and even if he had poor judgment on it he's still just a kid and probably a scared unhappy one at that. There is no need to make his life any harder.

 

[Thetwistedendgame]

If overdefensive women can use stun guns, so can bullied kids. It's not like a stun gun is illegal(in America), and no one makes a fuss about the 50th guy who gets zapped after sexually harassing a gal. Of course you can't compare sexual harassment and bullying, (although bullying someone for being gay is a form of sexual harassment) but self-defense is quite justifiable.

As for the matter of the "tell an adult" method, it does not work. It's not effective, most teachers are massive derps when it comes to bullying. I am especially disgusted by the fact that most schools will suspend you for throwing a punch at someone who is attacking you. Apparently, teachers think that if someone is hitting you, you should just stand there and take the punishment, or else you're not a functional human being.

 

[Ginger768]

If overdefensive women can use stun guns, so can bullied kids. It's not like a stun gun is illegal(in America), and no one makes a fuss about the 50th guy who gets zapped after sexually harassing a gal. Of course you can't compare sexual harassment and bullying, (although bullying someone for being gay is a form of sexual harassment) but self-defense is quite justifiable.

As for the matter of the "tell an adult" method, it does not work. It's not effective, most teachers are massive derps when it comes to bullying. I am especially disgusted by the fact that most schools will suspend you for throwing a punch at someone who is attacking you. Apparently, teachers think that if someone is hitting you, you should just stand there and take the punishment, or else you're not a functional human being.

Funny thing is i bet if it had been a teenage girl being harrased by large groups of boys a stun gun would have been more tolerated by the district.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Again, it doesn't have to be a gun, a stun gun isn't allowed in school with good reason. The kid was wrong to bring a stun gun to school.

If your life is in danger, you are never in the wrong to defend yourself, and if it's an extremely life-threatening situation (which a 6vs1 can easily be), then you are NOT in the wrong to do anything you can to save your own life. You can't reasonably expect any person in the world to put rules in front of their own life.

The justice system in most modern countries also works like this. Even someone who has broken the law can get off easier (or get off totally) if the circumstances was very special. Someone i knew once got away with violently using an improvised weapon, because it was a 15 vs. 1 situation, and the judge saw it reasonable for him to defend himself.

No rule can account for everything. That's why we, as human being, have to weight each situation and circumstance appropriately. In this case, the kid brought a very non-lethal weapon, had reason to believe his life and safety was in danger, and he didn't use the weapon actively (only to threaten his way out) and he was the victim. That's acceptable circumstances for bringen an otherwise legal weapon to school (only the school rules forbid it, not the law).

In a previous post I stated that I wasn't against the kid defending himself, I was against him bringing a weapon to school. You can dress it up all you want, but the kid brought a weapon to school, that is a clear violation and he should be punished for bringing it to school.

 

[Ginger768]

Are we implying that he had nowhere to run or hide? That these bullies would follow him to his new school for the single purpose of bullying him further?

'We' are implying that there are assholes wherever you go. That he may just as well be exchanging one set for another.

We are implying that giving all the power to the predators and tormentors is not a viable strategy.

no, no it is not, because brandishing a weapon is inviting a predator to get even more violent.

here's an idea. don't even change schools. find a lawyer, and file a restraining order. it's not guaranteed to work I know, but it can, and if it does, those bullies would then be forced to transfer to another district, or face arrest.

I imagine if he did this it would attract media attention which is the opposite of what most kids being bullied would want. It would only attract more negative interaction between his peers. Either by ignoring him and gossip, or further bullying.

As opposed to the publicity and problems that come with being expelled for bringing a weapon into a school?

The Publicity came from the school making a horrible decision. Had the school kept this under-wrap like they should have done and not provoked the poor kid further he would not be in nearly as bad as a situation. Again it may be a damned if you do-damned if you don't situation i'm not sure. I just don't think a lawyer is the optimal solution.

 

[MysticToast]

Wow there is some seriously stupid victim blaming in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised. The community here usually seems so quick to paint the victim in any story as in the wrong.

 

[Dags90]

Fair enough, the kids situation should be taken into account.

I think most people see things like the school board paying for homeschooling a school transfer as being reasonable punishments.

 

[Ginger768]

snip

I still privately feel he should have made every effort to act as "Normal" as possible.

Yeah that isn't fair, I know, but that's part of being a child/teen; you have expectations to act a certain way and your entire life exists in a rigorously structured social bubble. Any deviation it seems is almost always met with hostility. It's why being a grown adult is so great. You can, with a few unfortunate exceptions, be the person you want to be without fear of being bullied or assaulted.

I agree. I don't like blaming the victim but life isn't fair and your expected to act a certain way. The boy could have likley reduced his vulnerability just by wearing different clothes which i doubt is going to scar him for life. it's a better solution to try than bringing a weapon.

 

[Chunga the Great]

My my, all these people who have no concept of reality and would rather use a weapon than their head.

Using your head is overrated. It's harder to hide the injuries afterwards. Plus, your neck hurts afterwards, as well as restricting the swing area required to make a good hit. Most people tend to protect their heads in these situations as one's fists, feet or carried object typically makes a better blunt weapon. Alternatively, a static stun gun or pepper spray. Those are the most effective and are more likely to doscourage the bully from trying again.

Unless you're referring to Macgyvering a shield out of the air, walls and floor as six brutes bear down on you. In which case, go ahead.

(Generally, people who tell bullied kids to "use your head" are simply too lazy and aloof and don't care enough to come up with an actual solution.)

Fortunately I'm from a country where both stun guns and pepper spray are illegal to use. Somehow kids manage to deal with bullies without that.Plus by finding solutions that don't involve a weapon they don't escalate the matter into a weapons battle that eventually they will lose, they don't break laws, and they actually find ways to stop problems that build their confidence and discourage future bullies by generating respect.

And I did supply a series of answers above to alternatives.

What we seem to have here is a cross dressing boy who wasn't smart enough to talk down agressors, tone down his dress, or simply have friends. He must have demonstrated lack of confidence or they wouldn't have picked on him for any length of time. Through the absense of the father in the story, he was probably without a father and thus didn't know how to handle himself as a man in that situation. So what did he do? Pulled a weapon? A cowardly response that will only make his life worse. He's lucky, for example, that they fled. He pulled a weapon first, at that point they could have taken him out and reasonably claimed self defence.

I know right? What a coward, to want to defend himself with a weapon when faced with a life-threatening beating. I mean, not having friends is just stupid and if he stopped being such a pansy he wouldn't have gotten bullied! Huzzah for logic!

/disgusted sarcasm

 

[Ginger768]

Wow there is some seriously stupid victim blaming in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised. The community here usually seems so quick to paint the victim in any story as in the wrong.

The Victim may not always be as innocent as portrayed. And the "victim" brought a potentially lethal weapon to school. Which was the wrong way to settle his problem. He's just a kid and deserves forgiveness especially in his situation but his bullies also are just kids who deserve forgiveness as well.