Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[samaugsch]

Well, damn. There goes my idea for buying a taser at some point in the future to deter possible attackers. T_T

 

[Aprilgold]

Oh look what we have here?

Enlightened rational minds blaming the victim for being too weak?

Some people on this site never cease to amaze me.

Thank you for this.

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

I agree. if this boy truly feared for his life, he could have done a number of things.

1. He could have changed schools
2. Homeschooling would work as well
3. A little extreme but if your life is on the line, moving is another option
4. If threats are made, inform the police
5. If at all possible, trying to fight them without weapons
6. At the very least, don't use weapons until they start something first.

Alright, in order.
1) Could have been the only school close enough for them to go to. Also, it is still costly to change schools.
2) She may not have the time and neither would the father I can assume.
3) Same as number one, to costly.
4) What would the police do, send the kid to juvy? Most likely the police would ignore the threats and do exactly what most teachers do. Which is just ignore it till it go's away.
5) Yes, because everyone is fit enough to take on a group of three or four dudes at once. Right, you keep telling yourself that. As a child, I highly doubt he alone would be able to fight a group of three stronger people by himself while also in fear.
6) From the sounds of it, they already did and I can tell you that words are as harmful as fists. Suicide and depression don't have to come from being beaten, but from having your own self respect beaten down.

-------------------------------------

Do you guys remember the kid who was being chased down by a gang of bullies and stabbed the leader one 11 times with a knife because they were promising to beat him up, and I'm guessing kill him, but just told the authorities they were going to beat him up and a lot of us said that this was all his fault and he needs to go to prison for trying to defend himself? Because I do remember that and I'm sure theres a comment in these 11+ pages with several pages of people saying that he should be expelled for using a stun gun in self defense.

Lets think of different outcomes if he had instead used nothing but fists and feet, shall we? Well more then likely, and I'm just guessing here, a broken bone in one spot, several bruises and maybe a cut. OH YEAH, and a detention for him for getting into a fist-fight at school. Now if he brought a knife we could suspect him to get expelled and one of the bullies cut bad. Gun would obviously be something that the court would bring up and most likely prison time.

Best option was the Stun-Gun and if he didn't use it we would instead have no story but this kid would have most likely gotten very badly beaten up and the school would still not take any action.

 

[Erttheking]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

I call bullshit.

There's no goddamn way a police officer would bring a gun on a school campus with no good reason, unless your school is a cesspool of violence and drugs. Even a taser is stretching things a bit thin.

You can call BS all that you want, I've seen the freaking thing.

I'd be afraid to go to your school then, my friend. Most schools tend to want to keep firearms as far away as possible from the area.

"Shrugs" suit yourself, I have to say she's one of the nicest people I've ever met though.

I wasn't questioning her character, I'm just questioning why the hell she'd need to carry a gun on her while scanning the lunchroom.

Well, you know the old saying, better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it. Besides, after Columbine you can never be too careful, or at least that's the general consensus.

 

[Epicspoon]

It's all fun and games until someone gets shocked into cardiac arrest.

It's all fun and games until the bad guys start losing. then they get you kicked out of school.

 

[Sarge034]

So after reading a good deal of posts I have come to the conclusion that this thread has devolved into naive liberalism vs conservative self-defense. Why can't we see that EVERYONE was wrong here.

>The school refused to take action when informed of bullying (violation of the "zero tolerance" act).
>The bullies are.... well bullies (violation of the "zero tolerance" act). Also, 6 on 1... really?
>The mom instigated an illegal act (arming the child with a stun gun).
>The child brought a weapon on school grounds (illegal). The child used the threat of force to deter physical harm (violation of the "zero tolerance" act).

However, speaking from experience schools do not do enough to stop bullying and the "zero tolerance" act is a joke. It basically states that if you are getting beaten up you have to take it. If you fight back you will receive the same punishment as those who were assaulting you. I by no means say taking a weapon to school was the right call, but perhaps this had to happen so the media would get involved and the country would tear this school apart.

Off topic- solve media = good afternoon
Not anymore it aint...

 

[SuperBelkar]

Oh look what we have here?

Enlightened rational minds blaming the victim for being too weak?

Some people on this site never cease to amaze me.

Thank you for this.

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

I agree. if this boy truly feared for his life, he could have done a number of things.

1. He could have changed schools
2. Homeschooling would work as well
3. A little extreme but if your life is on the line, moving is another option
4. If threats are made, inform the police
5. If at all possible, trying to fight them without weapons
6. At the very least, don't use weapons until they start something first.

Alright, in order.
1) Could have been the only school close enough for them to go to. Also, it is still costly to change schools.
2) She may not have the time and neither would the father I can assume.
3) Same as number one, to costly.
4) What would the police do, send the kid to juvy? Most likely the police would ignore the threats and do exactly what most teachers do. Which is just ignore it till it go's away.
5) Yes, because everyone is fit enough to take on a group of three or four dudes at once. Right, you keep telling yourself that. As a child, I highly doubt he alone would be able to fight a group of three stronger people by himself while also in fear.
6) From the sounds of it, they already did and I can tell you that words are as harmful as fists. Suicide and depression don't have to come from being beaten, but from having your own self respect beaten down.

-------------------------------------

Do you guys remember the kid who was being chased down by a gang of bullies and stabbed the leader one 11 times with a knife because they were promising to beat him up, and I'm guessing kill him, but just told the authorities they were going to beat him up and a lot of us said that this was all his fault and he needs to go to prison for trying to defend himself? Because I do remember that and I'm sure theres a comment in these 11+ pages with several pages of people saying that he should be expelled for using a stun gun in self defense.

Lets think of different outcomes if he had instead used nothing but fists and feet, shall we? Well more then likely, and I'm just guessing here, a broken bone in one spot, several bruises and maybe a cut. OH YEAH, and a detention for him for getting into a fist-fight at school. Now if he brought a knife we could suspect him to get expelled and one of the bullies cut bad. Gun would obviously be something that the court would bring up and most likely prison time.

Best option was the Stun-Gun and if he didn't use it we would instead have no story but this kid would have most likely gotten very badly beaten up and the school would still not take any action.

Yes, I believe your absolutely right. The options I gave probably would not work, the path he took was likely the best one, and I believe everyone of those punks should have gotten a taser to the face. However, if he went to do all the things that I had suggested, and things still went south, his position would be a little better. It is wrong what happened to this kid, but now he is put in the same light as one who isn't stable. He was right, but now he doesn't have anything to call on.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Hmmm... Yeah, I got no problem with this. The article has a lot of draw words that sound harsh to generate more sympathy for the kid, but it never mentioned any act of violence being committed against him. Therefore I will assume no such behavior actually happened. Insults and hotair threats in a school environment are bullshit even when people are "surrounding" you, and the sooner he learns that the easier it will be to ignore them. Responding with a weapon makes you the antagonist, and I guess he wasn't ready to take the responsibility of brandishing a weapon on school grounds. Plain and simple.

There's a victim of bullying here, but there's no victim of an "unjust" expulsion.

Yeah, but what's the end result of the bullies being ignored? My guess is that it would lead to escalation. You're also dismissing his claim that he felt he was about to be jumped without any sort of reason to do so. There's no mention of act of violence, since none occured, but there's no information on whether or not he has been the victim of physical violence.

This leads to either two outcomes - either he has been the victim of physical violence and felt he needed to protect himself, a position agreed upon by his mother -or- both he and his mother are insane and responded to "hotair threats" with a stun gun.

One seems to make more sense then the other. As for the nature of who is the antagonist, using six people to menace a not-very-large (in the picture) gay high school student makes me question your assumption that the gay student was the true antagonist.

I think your position shows a lack of understanding for the current school environment for GLBT students, especially in heavily christian communities. It's not all bad, and there's lots of school boards working to get better just as much as there are boards and districts working efficiently to get worse.

This is a slightly extreme example, and what the school board did is way beyond the pale, but it's indicative of the issues facing GLBT high school students. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202

Between the two - I'll take the stun gun. I don't think he should get off free, but in this case - perhaps education for both sides is the proper response. He should be punished, but he should also be an example as to how the school's social education and discipline systems are failing.

I think both of our positions are mainly based on assumptions considering the article is extremely vague in the details rather than either of us having a lack of understanding of anything.

I've taken my position based on the assumption that he was never physically assaulted and still hasn't beyond a few threats. The reason being for this is my interpretation of the article. The way it was written suggests a subtle tone that garners sympathy for the kid with the draw words I mentioned. I might be wrong on that, but one would assume if the article was siding with the kid, however subtle, a key fact would be if he has been subjected to physical abuse in the past. Such acts are not mentioned, and instead, the acts of the kids harassing him has been relegated to the simple word "bullying". The lack of this key fact in the article is what leads me to believe that no such violence ever occurred, making all the bullying that happened to be just verbal hotair.

Also, the actual act of using the stun-gun to ward off bullies comes across as more stupid than insane (personally, something truly insane to me is an entire town declaring war on a bunch of kids). I mean, it's just as easy to assume that he was never planning on actually using the stun-gun in place of using it to threaten. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time--respond to the threats of physical violence with the threat of a stun-gun; the kid doesn't have to use it, just threaten with it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if all he ever planned to do was just wave it around menacingly.

Again, these are all just assumptions on a very vague article. Most of the posts in this thread basically amount to just pissing in the wind considering how little we actually know of the true situation.

 

[Derek Westlund]

personally i would have taken the stungun to the school myself and used it on the guidance counselor first and said my son is going to be using this on the bullies if you dont' do you f***ing job.

and then beat the sh!t out of him if the cops showed up.

no tolerance. none.

 

[TephlonPrice]

I can see where this kid's coming from on the issue, but the fact still remains he brought a stun gun to school. Any school district doesn't want to have kids walking around with tasers. Especially if the kid starts toting a 9mm by the jeans pocket or starts bringing a crew or it starts causing bad press & the school's enrollment rate drops significantly.

It's a shame, because I've seen this shit & even been bullied. Trust me, when you're bullied, bringing a concealed knife to school doesn't sound so bad. The school wasn't doing anything to help the kid, so he took things into his own hands. I've seen niggas get jumped outta the blue & start to walk around with improvised stabbing weapons if it happens again. Trust me: I still do it today, even though it's not middle school anymore because I'm so used to doing it.

And negotiation doesn't work either. I know it doesn't work; I've tried. I've tried the get the teachers involved approach; I nearly lost my head for it.

I can see where the kid's coming from though. You get bullied, the school ain't helping matters & your own crew doesn't seem willing to help out. So ya gotta take things into your own hands.

 

[Scars Unseen]

You know, I didn't expect to be able to use this picture two days in a row. Some people in this thread have either never been bullied, never seen anyone be bullied, or are the misbegotten bastards of Judge Dredd.

 

[Right Hook]

It's all fun and games until someone gets shocked into cardiac arrest.

Back in my day, when we had to deal with bullies, we performed a musical number that showed the bullies why they wrong to do such nasty things. They would then join in with our song, proclaiming their lives changed.

The more you know.

Because no one is getting beat up with seven years of ballet and two of jazz tap!

 

[Boris Goodenough]

I support the kid in this case, nothing else he could have done except maybe endured, which is not the most pleasent option in this case.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

You know something is wrong with your culture when you have to station armed guards at a school.

 

[Zanderinfal]

Look, I'm against weapons in almost all situations but this is an exception. No one can say this was a bad course of action if they pay attention to the fact that he had feared for his life, that it was 6 on 1, that the schools had done jack shit and that it was a non lethal non tazer stun gun. I find it simply fucking stupid that people can say he is in the wrong, especially saying the mother is in the wrong. She was doing her best to help her child because he was being bullied because of his sexuality and no one had done anything to help.

I hardly believe she would say something like "Zap the fuckers" or anything quite that violent, I would expect she said something along the lines of "Look, I don't want you to use this unless they come up to you and threaten you. You don't even need to actually use it, just fire a shot into the air to scar them off," because I kn ow that's what I would have done and said in that situation (providing I actually HAD a stun gun).

So everybody, please stop saying the kid was wrong. What would YOU do in that situation? If you called the cops, not only would getting there take too long but getting out the phone, dialing and calling would take alot of time too. Providing they actually do ANYTHING at all. Would you tell them to stop? Bullshit. I've tried the same in real life and it makes them MORE pissed off, they push you around because it makes you look like an even bigger target who wouldn't fight for his life. Fight with your bear hands? 6 on 1... I'd love to see you get you're arse kicked. Tell a teacher? Still wouldn't do anything, makes you a bigger target even if they do get a talk. Sometimes drastic measures can be the only way.