**Terror in Oslo** UPDATE: Anders Breivik gets 8 weeks of custody

[Leviathan_]

Religion is a dirty, dirty thing.

My thoughts go out to the people of Norway.

 

[Esotera]

And no, no one has claimed responsibility yet.

Hm, it's all very mysterious - seriously, why Norway? Anyone who does this is obviously deluded, but choosing Oslo as their target makes them doubly so. I can't see what they've done to piss anyone off.

 

[martin's a madman]

I admit I dislike religion and the things it carries in baggage, but we can't immediately say this was religiously inspired terrorism without confirmation.

We have to wait and see what the motivations were.

How can a "suspicious car" ( a van stuffed with explosives should mark suspicion ) get so close to such a important building in Oslo? I don;t know about you , but if I wanted to park my car outside the Parliament 1. I wouldn't be allowed if I wasn't a employ , 2 I would almost immediately trigger the security system .

Not trying to minimize the tragedy , but Norway might want to tighten its security in these troubled times . Also , lets not kid ourselves , this has terrorist attack all over it . Norway residents are very peaceful people ( 1 crime per year or even 0? ) and have it better than most of Europe now due to oil , so , no , I am 100% sure a Norwegian wouldn't be able to do this . This is the way we Europeans are repaid for allowing foreigners to live their lives here , almost always with religion freedom ( Oh , hai , France ) . Think it's time we stop and make a more drastic immigration policy , especially for the likes that may cause harm to our citizens ( people that seem to not be able to understand anything past the Quran ,former terrorist members now going "good" etc)

Hypothetical: what if a home grown Norwegian, blond hair, blue eyes takes a literalist interpretation of a Koran, and maybe he or she feels the same way as an arab muslim terrorist. Do you get rid of them too? And how do you determine who these people are?

"100% certain a 'Norwegian' wouldn't be able to do this" what does this mean? Someone fully assimilated? So, what if an arab person completely embraces 'Norwegian' culture? How do you indentify these people?

 

[0986875533423]

Religion is a dirty, dirty thing.

My thoughts go out to the people of Norway.

Unfortunately, yes it is, although I suspect that a large number of attacks like this are perpetrated by people who, in the absence of a religion, would find something else in the name which to harm those they needlessly hate.

Anyway we don't know for sure that it was Islamic extremists yet (although it probably was), so let's not go there quite yet.

 

[Vampire cat]

No guarantee this is a religious thing yet though. Also there has been some talk about gun shots in the area where the Prime Minister and parts of his party are located. What the media are able to tell us now is little more than a jumbled mess, will likely be several hours if not a day or two before substantial information is available.

It's worth mentioning that this attack happened in the summer and late in the work day, so it doesn't seem like there was any intention to maximize casualties, which is also unlike other attacks we've seen in Europe and other parts of the world that were linked to Islam.

 

[Leviathan_]

- We've also made quite a bad impression on the people in countries with muslim religions because some years ago, some guy made a caricature of Mohammad, their holy prophet. This infuriated a lot of muslims, and I believe they are still burning flags and Norwegian stuff down there, as well as right after the caricatures, they started assaulting Norwegian Embassies.

Wasn't that in Denmark?

 

[0986875533423]

Wasn't that in Denmark?

If most of the western world can't remember which middle-eastern country its assailants come from this week, what's the chance the extremists themselves will be able to tell the difference between scandinavian countries?

 

[Jerubbaal]

It's funny that you say that because throughout history, christianity has been a very violent religion. The Crusades, I'm looking at you.

And the Bible is full of bad morals, and so is the Quran, mainly because they both are old outdated books. But both books also contain good morals.

And christians being more tolerant and less violent; there's no truth in that, unless you can show me proof. Don't try to blame all the muslims for what very few of them does.

I don't get this skewed view of the Crusades that the West seems to have ingrained into its psyche. Pope Urban II's call for a Crusade to the Holy Land was a direct response to a request he received from the Byzantines, who were under direct attack by the Muslim Turks. Urban determined that an invasion of the Holy Land would draw pressure off the Byzantines, and as the aftermath of the taking of Antioch shows, he was right. None of this is to say that Christianity is not without violence, but I hate when people use the Crusades as a bat to beat the "religion is violent" dead horse.

EDIT: Addtionally, even though it is obvious that not all Muslims are terrorists, one need only look at the rejoicing of mainstream Muslims over attacks on the West to see that a very significant portion of Muslims ideologically support terrorism.

 

[Vampire cat]

Wasn't that in Denmark?

If most of the western world can't remember which middle-eastern country its assailants come from this week, what's the chance the extremists themselves will be able to tell the difference between scandinavian countries?

Wasn't that in Denmark?

Norwegian newspapers printed the caricatures too. It's not likely that this is the reason for the attacks though.

 

[holy_secret]

Something I don't like about this is all the people jumping on the "muslims did it" bandwagon.
Just check the comments on the youtube video and see what I mean.

Yes, this was probably done by an EXTREMIST muslim group. Don't judge all of them because what very few of them does.

It pisses me off!

An extremist muslim is still a muslim. So, if a muslim extremist group did this, the people saying "muslims did it" are, in fact, factually correct.

I believe the difference is in the definite article, which is lacking in both texts you've written.
I agree with you.

This sucks. We swedes may make fun of our neighbors, but this is completely unacceptable! No one messes with our little brother and gets away with it.
I am waiting for a comment from the people responsible for this. I want to know the reason.

 

[Leviathan_]

Wasn't that in Denmark?

If most of the western world can't remember which middle-eastern country its assailants come from this week, what's the chance the extremists themselves will be able to tell the difference between scandinavian countries?

I must be getting trolled here.


Please tell me I'm getting trolled here.

 

[Roofstone]

As sad is it is to say it, it had to happen sooner or later..

I aint to worried.

 

[Ledan]

Why? That's all that I can think of. Scandinavian countries are usually NEVER targeted by terrorist groups, unless they are from within the country.
I would be more surprised if the news revealed this to be muslim extremists than some Norwegian psychos (I'm not saying Norwegians are psychos, but I would be less surprised if it was a crazy native than muslims, simply because idk why Muslim extremists would attack Norway)

 

[Jerubbaal]

Just read that witnesses have reported about shots fired at a youth gathering in a separate part of the country (Utøya, Buskerud).

The man was dressed as a policeman and identified himself as such when he was transported out to the island.


WTF is going on?!

Source: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10080590 (Unfortunately only in norwegian so far) :S

There have also been reports about a youtube clip that was uploaded last sunday with the title name "Wybuch w Oslo - Explosion in Oslo - 22.07.2011. Wybuch" (Wybuch meaning explosion in polish). The title of that video was changed sometime around five today to "hamsters".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi64QsgjjAA (Copy of the original clip. Not sure what anyone can extract from this though)

All I can tell you is that the man in the video is almost definitely speaking Polish. I speak Czech, a related language, but the guy is talking too quickly for me to pick out anything definitive. I've got a Polish clan buddy who might be able to help, assuming someone else doesn't figure it out by then.

 

[0986875533423]

Wasn't that in Denmark?

If most of the western world can't remember which middle-eastern country its assailants come from this week, what's the chance the extremists themselves will be able to tell the difference between scandinavian countries?

I must be getting trolled here.


Please tell me I'm getting trolled here.

Why? Gloomy pessimistic semi-jokes aren't troll material.

 

[Sunrider]

I won't point any fingers (yet), but everytime I see the "well, Christianity used to be really violent too!", my blood boils. In WHAT WAY does that excuse what is happening now? If, for example, a black man murders someone, is this excusable with "well, white people are murderers too!". It's not even related.
I'm also ashamed about the fact that I have to point this out, but my statement of a black / white person above has NOTHING to do with my own views on any "race", if you even wish to put people into different "races". The example works even if you change places of the black and white man.

Keep in mind, I'm not defending christianity, islam, buddhism, ANYTHING. Nor am I blaming anything. I just want to point out the ignorance of the argument in itself.

On topic: I really hope there won't be more attacks of this kind. Norway is a great example of a successful country, and they haven't done jack to deserve this as far as I am informed of.
I wish you the best of luck from your neighbour, Sweden!

 

[andeve3]

There has been an exchange of gunfire on utøya, not far from oslo.