**Terror in Oslo** UPDATE: Anders Breivik gets 8 weeks of custody

[Ninjasander]

Snip

I agree... That is just wrong.

Also for those who have a lot of spare time on their hands, I managed to find a copy of the 1500 page long manifesto.

Apparently it contains details about motives, planning of attacks, and affiliations with other extreme groups(not confirmed).

 

[Pinkamena]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

 

[P.Tsunami]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

Done, and yes they are. I do not need that fucking shit when I'm still worrying to death over a friend at Utøya.

 

[Pinkamena]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

Done, and yes they are. I do not need that fucking shit when I'm still worrying to death over a friend at Utøya.

Luckily, I knew nobody at the camp, but one of my friends lost many of his own friends there. It's so tragic.

 

[mParadox]

My deepest condolences to the people who've suffered and died in the attack. These kind of attacks happen here on a daily basis, so I'm familiar with the devastation, fear and despair such an attack creates. I sincerely hope that the people who have been directly or indirectly harmed from this atrocious attack, recover in due process.

 

[O maestre]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

i think allowing the manifesto to become public would be a mistake... breivik did this to get attention for his cause, he should be denied any and all opportunities for any kind of victory.

and there is nothing he could have written that would make me understand his actions, he is a monster and should be treated like that. he lost the right to be treated with any kind of respect or understanding.

 

[Ninjasander]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

i think allowing the manifesto to become public would be a mistake... breivik did this to get attention for his cause, he should be denied any and all opportunities for any kind of victory.

and there is nothing he could have written that would make me understand his actions, he is a monster and should be treated like that. he lost the right to be treated with any kind of respect or understanding.

I do agree with you, but it has already gone public.

And I linked to it here because I also think that anyone that wants to read it, should be able to.

 

[O maestre]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

i think allowing the manifesto to become public would be a mistake... breivik did this to get attention for his cause, he should be denied any and all opportunities for any kind of victory.

and there is nothing he could have written that would make me understand his actions, he is a monster and should be treated like that. he lost the right to be treated with any kind of respect or understanding.

I do agree with you, but it has already gone public.

And I linked to it here because I also think that anyone that wants to read it, should be able to.

i know you are right and that the right to access information is valid.... but in my heart i cant reconcile the need to punish breivik and allowing him a chance to justify this vicious and callous attack.

its weird, here in denmark(at least in my circle of friends) it feels as if the attack happened in our own country.... i hope norway can come out of this tragedy in a stable manner.

 

[Pinkamena]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

i think allowing the manifesto to become public would be a mistake... breivik did this to get attention for his cause, he should be denied any and all opportunities for any kind of victory.

and there is nothing he could have written that would make me understand his actions, he is a monster and should be treated like that. he lost the right to be treated with any kind of respect or understanding.

I think people should know why he did it.

 

[Ninjasander]

Will be interesting to see what comes out of the manifesto.
Also, people should remove those pictures they quoted. They're pretty damn tasteless.

i think allowing the manifesto to become public would be a mistake... breivik did this to get attention for his cause, he should be denied any and all opportunities for any kind of victory.

and there is nothing he could have written that would make me understand his actions, he is a monster and should be treated like that. he lost the right to be treated with any kind of respect or understanding.

I do agree with you, but it has already gone public.

And I linked to it here because I also think that anyone that wants to read it, should be able to.

i know you are right and that the right to access information is valid.... but in my heart i cant reconcile the need to punish breivik and allowing him a chance to justify this vicious and callous attack.

its weird, here in denmark(at least in my circle of friends) it feels as if the attack happened in our own country.... i hop norway can come out of this tragedy in a stable manner.

Any sane person will not see this as justification for the attacks, but rather as the ramblings of a mad man.

 

[Jegsimmons]

How's that gun control working for you Norway? I thought banning guns took them out of the hands of criminals and the insane.

So enlighten me, how many dies in US compared to Norway yearly?

This picture is one of my favourites:
[HEADING=3]Per capita intentional homicide.[/HEADING]
[sub]Deeper blue = higher homicide rate.[/sub]

Yeah, clearly gun control isn't working out for us at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

does not account for variables (which are many) or the 2-4 million times a year a gun has prevented a crime or murder.

so that map really has little scientific basis about gun control. since about half of us violent crime isnt gun related.

That isn't the point.
The map makes it very obvious that Norway's strict gun-control hasn't led to high murder-rates in Norway. Indeed, Norway has some of the lowest murder-rates in the world, and there is no reason to believe that relaxing gun control is going to lower murder-rates.
In fact, if you move to the east of Norway and Sweden (which both have strict gun-control) and take a look at Finland (which has been criticized by other Scandinavian countries for its lax gun control), you will see that their murder-rates are high compared to the neighbouring countries.
Basically, looking at neighbouring countries that are very similar in most ways, except for gun control, and then seeing that the country with the most lax gun control has almost 5 times the amount of homicide of its neighbours, you'd have to be a madman to propose the neighbouring countries should adopt that country's gun control policies.
"Don't change a winning team", I guess you could say.

Basically, when you're saying Norway should let up on the gun control, you might as well be saying "Look at Finland. You should emulate them." The notion that guns make a country safer just doesn't make sense.

Hoping to lower Norway's homicide rates is pretty useless already. With humans being what they are, you can't get much better than 0.6 per capita. Any improvements would be marginal at best; and thankfully there is not a single significant political group in Norway that actually believes we could achieve that by introducing more weapons to the country.

I guess fighting fire with fire and 'an eye for an eye' isn't really a part of the collective Norwegian psyche. Guns for everyone just doesn't fit the spirit of the country.

Edit: And much less than half of Norwegian violent crime is presumably gun-related by the way. I can't find the stats for Norway in particular, but the stats from Finland and Denmark point in that direction.
And then there's the fact that homicide by gun alone in the US is nearly 5 times as high as homicide altogether in Norway.

well more or less i agree (and i am a proud gun fanatic and onwer) but i was more or less saying that the map its self is misleading and shouldnt really decide a persons position since thats only a tenth of the proper data required for that kind of decision.

 

[Viral_Lola]

My heart is breaking as I hear more bad news. I don't want the death toll to grow higher.

 

[Sunrider]

It's gonna sound weird, seeing as survival instincts tell me to stay away from bad stuff, but I wish I lived in Oslo, so I could go help out and / or donate blood. Can't really make the trip, because I can't just leave everything behind and go away for a week.

 

[Kair]

Q: When is a religious fundamentalist mass murderer just a madman?
A: When he's a white christian fundamentalist.

The sheep started crying terrorism right away, trying to unify the herd through religion and nationalism.

Then after some time, it was known that the perpetrator was a white christian nationalist nutbag, just like the sheep.

As if it was only white Christian nationalists crying Islamic terrorism.

I was not crying terrorism. But neither am I a part of the herd.

Nationalism, religion, xenophobia and prejudice are all symptoms of the same mental illness. There are many more symptoms.

I didn't say you were. That still does not mean that you're not implicitly blaming only some of those that are guilty.

And lol, no they are not a mental illness even if you dislike them or even if there is good reason to dislike them.

I diagnose them with a mental illness because of the consequences brought on by their mindset, not because of my personal taste or (dis)affection. Just like Schizophrenia is an illness because of its negative consequences, the unenlightened mind is also an illness because of the negative consequences. Though it is an extremely common mental illness as opposed to Schizophrenia.

Many people will not call it an illness, just like in a hypothetical world where the vast majority of people had Multiple Personality Disorder, MPD would not be called an illness.

In other words you don't like the consequences and therefore you say they're mentally ill. No good reason, just your dislike. You should stop raping psychology.

And you should stop being severely incapable of communication.
There is no reason to try to talk to you if you only hear what you want to hear.

 

[Jegsimmons]

How's that gun control working for you Norway? I thought banning guns took them out of the hands of criminals and the insane.

So enlighten me, how many dies in US compared to Norway yearly?

This picture is one of my favourites:
[HEADING=3]Per capita intentional homicide.[/HEADING]
[sub]Deeper blue = higher homicide rate.[/sub]

Yeah, clearly gun control isn't working out for us at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

does not account for variables (which are many) or the 2-4 million times a year a gun has prevented a crime or murder.

so that map really has little scientific basis about gun control. since about half of us violent crime isnt gun related.

Conversely, guns preventing crime hasn't exactly done much to prevent the US from having as high a homicide rate.

Just think, if guns weren't preventing crime, then guns would be causing SO MUCH CRIME it'd be like Russia.

thats why the map is misleading. it doesnt count the variables of illegal guns and gun runners, doesnt actually say the amount of violence is gun violence.
and actually, while we have more deaths, if you take the whole population and find the percentage of homicides of that population, it is VERY VERY close to the numbers in European countries. like a ten thousandth of a percent.

 

[Jonluw]

How's that gun control working for you Norway? I thought banning guns took them out of the hands of criminals and the insane.

So enlighten me, how many dies in US compared to Norway yearly?

This picture is one of my favourites:
[HEADING=3]Per capita intentional homicide.[/HEADING]
[sub]Deeper blue = higher homicide rate.[/sub]

Yeah, clearly gun control isn't working out for us at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

does not account for variables (which are many) or the 2-4 million times a year a gun has prevented a crime or murder.

so that map really has little scientific basis about gun control. since about half of us violent crime isnt gun related.

That isn't the point.
The map makes it very obvious that Norway's strict gun-control hasn't led to high murder-rates in Norway. Indeed, Norway has some of the lowest murder-rates in the world, and there is no reason to believe that relaxing gun control is going to lower murder-rates.
In fact, if you move to the east of Norway and Sweden (which both have strict gun-control) and take a look at Finland (which has been criticized by other Scandinavian countries for its lax gun control), you will see that their murder-rates are high compared to the neighbouring countries.
Basically, looking at neighbouring countries that are very similar in most ways, except for gun control, and then seeing that the country with the most lax gun control has almost 5 times the amount of homicide of its neighbours, you'd have to be a madman to propose the neighbouring countries should adopt that country's gun control policies.
"Don't change a winning team", I guess you could say.

Basically, when you're saying Norway should let up on the gun control, you might as well be saying "Look at Finland. You should emulate them." The notion that guns make a country safer just doesn't make sense.

Hoping to lower Norway's homicide rates is pretty useless already. With humans being what they are, you can't get much better than 0.6 per capita. Any improvements would be marginal at best; and thankfully there is not a single significant political group in Norway that actually believes we could achieve that by introducing more weapons to the country.

I guess fighting fire with fire and 'an eye for an eye' isn't really a part of the collective Norwegian psyche. Guns for everyone just doesn't fit the spirit of the country.

Edit: And much less than half of Norwegian violent crime is presumably gun-related by the way. I can't find the stats for Norway in particular, but the stats from Finland and Denmark point in that direction.
And then there's the fact that homicide by gun alone in the US is nearly 5 times as high as homicide altogether in Norway.

well more or less i agree (and i am a proud gun fanatic and onwer) but i was more or less saying that the map its self is misleading and shouldnt really decide a persons position since thats only a tenth of the proper data required for that kind of decision.

Oh indeed not.
I am quite fond of guns, myself, after all.

 

[Jonluw]

thats why the map is misleading. it doesnt count the variables of illegal guns and gun runners, doesnt actually say the amount of violence is gun violence.
and actually, while we have more deaths, if you take the whole population and find the percentage of homicides of that population, it is VERY VERY close to the numbers in European countries. like a ten thousandth of a percent.

Actually, that map isn't showcasing number of deaths.
The map illustrates homicides per capita (Number of homicides pr. 100,000 citizens). In other words, that map does illustrate homicide by percentage; and the US does have quite a few more homicides by percentage than western Europe.

I.e. that map I posted is doing exactly what you are proposing it should do.

(Homicide in the US by gun alone is approx. twice as high - by percentage - as homicide altogether in the UK)
[sub]In the UK, 1.28 people are killed per 100,000 citizens every year. In the US, 2.97 people were killed per 100,000 citizens by firearms alone in 1999 (Homicide has declined somewhat since then, but is still way higher than in the UK).[/sub]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#2000s

But let's put this to rest.
I need to go to bed, and this is not the appropriate place to discuss it.

 

[e033x]

It's gonna sound weird, seeing as survival instincts tell me to stay away from bad stuff, but I wish I lived in Oslo, so I could go help out and / or donate blood. Can't really make the trip, because I can't just leave everything behind and go away for a week.

I know how you feel. I live just an hour away from where the bomb went off, two from Utøya, and since the attack, the only thing I have been able to do is sit infront of the computer and TV to follow the case. I can't donate blood, because I'm not a registered blood donor (don't know which blood type I have either...), I don't know anyone who was present at any of the attacks, so I can't help them either, other than thinking happy thoughts. A part of me wish that I was there, so I could have the ability to feel what they feel, and share their pain.

EDIT: Ok, this sounded mighty poetic, and my fingers might just have taken it a bit too far. So excuse me if someone finds it pretentious.

EDIT 2:

snip

No, it's easy to ASSUME you THINK you know what his motivations are.

The shooter wrote a fucking manifesto of 1500 pages explaining it. I think it is safe to assume that we can know his motivations.