"That's not music, it's just meaningless noise"

[mighty_honour_korea]

Everyone's entitled to their own taste in music, but as soon as you try to convince people that your god-awful favorite band is a diamond in the rough, you become what is commonly referred to as a 'douchebag'.

Nearly all these 'How come people shit all over my favourite...' threads are started by teenagers who like metal with scream vocals. All of your moms are right, it's garbage and you only listen to it because it gets a rise out of Mom and Dad or your straight edge friends.

Metal is to music as horror is to cinema. Yes, occasionally Kubrik comes along and makes a Shining, but everything else is a trite, haphazard, cookie-cutter piece of shite that only really has production quality or shock value going for it. Sometimes neither.

Stop defining yourself by the media you consume and maybe you won't find it offensive when people have no respect for your taste.

 

[zehydra]

Everyone's entitled to their own taste in music, but as soon as you try to convince people that your god-awful favorite band is a diamond in the rough, you become what is commonly referred to as a 'douchebag'.

Nearly all these 'How come people shit all over my favourite...' threads are started by teenagers who like metal with scream vocals. All of your moms are right, it's garbage and you only listen to it because it gets a rise out of Mom and Dad or your straight edge friends.

Metal is to music as horror is to cinema. Yes, occasionally Kubrik comes along and makes a Shining, but everything else is a trite, haphazard, cookie-cutter piece of shite that only really has production quality or shock value going for it. Sometimes neither.

Stop defining yourself by the media you consume and maybe you won't find it offensive when people have no respect for your taste.

kind of why I dislike really anything "hardcore". Usually that's just another way of saying "we're more badass than anyone else, see? SEE?"

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Listen to Merzbow. He's basically the God of Noise.
I hope I don't get a warning for low word count.

Finally, someone brings up Merzbow. I see all these kiddies trying to "out noise" each other with their grindcore, deathgrind, etc. but nowhere is there a mention of the insanity of Merzbow. You're all welcome:

Spoiler

I'll also mention Sunn O))) for their oppressively incoherent feedback soundscapes

Spoiler

And here's them covering "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Metallica

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

If I get some disposable income I might pick up an album or two of Van Canto. Acapella "hero metal." They get flak from a lot of Americans because they're all vocalists and just a throwback to Beavis and Butthead which takes absolutely no talent to do. To me, it's original and the first new music I'll have had in my collection in three years. They all have great voices. I do not care if one does "not simply riddly diddly into Mordor."

I smiled the first time all day at that... Just because of the riddly diddly. In my opinion, it's actually legitimately good music, though, which is what makes the riddly diddly diddly dum dum bits better...

Thank you, sir... Now I'm going back to being moody and depressed due to girl issues. I appreciate the small amount of fleeting happiness you brought me though.

I have no problem with the "riddly diddly" parts, it just makes me think of the "Misheard Wishmast (Fishmaster)" video...hee hee.

 

[Hatchet90]

Metal has always been pretty much noise. The only fun that can be had with metal is going to a metal concert, other than that I would never listen to it in my car or at home.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Convince people this is music... i dare you
I just can't get my head around it. Oh, and my mom tends to tell me it's just meaningless noise whenever i listen to anything heavier than Bon Jovi

 

[lacktheknack]

I am about to blow your mind with stupidity. Please take this as representative of the average intelligence level of my friends and regular associates:

One of my friends recently declared my music taste as shit because I was listening to Bach's Toccata and Fugue. His reasoning? "Anyone can make that noise, it doesn't even have lyrics!"

In retrospect I really should have slapped him.

AKYHAWKHLKVASQAWEJKGLAKVADSHJLKBWQEBM<AHCVLX WKLNQTWEL IOA KJ FSKL

Sorry, I just had a seizure.

This only strengthens my personal belief that basic music theory should be a required subject, and more advanced theory should be a viable class option in high school.

OT: I listen to this.


It's actually subtly complex (and I know that makes me look like the ultimate hipster twat right there), but I've been told that it's not music by several people. This confuses me. It has a constant theme and variation, which makes it technically more complex and musical than some Pop music.

 

[4173]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

 

[Adzma]

The reverse for me. I always call rap pointless noise. Or just not music on a charitable day.

 

[opeth1989]

I used to be a big fan of anything black metal back in high school, this was what I would listen to.

Now keep in mind I was living with both my parents, my grandfather, and my aunt, in a pretty small house. Also keep in mind i have very loud speakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWynJCi_DSY&feature=related

 

[lacktheknack]

Convince people this is music... i dare you
I just can't get my head around it.

It's music in much the same way that a particularly bad bout of diarrhea is music. It has no discernible melody, it pauses for no apparent reason, there appears to be only one unorthodox instrument that isn't even trying, and if you record it, then more elite publications will herald it as an impressionistic masterpiece.

Personally, my classically trained ear feels like it was run over by a car. Which is pretty fitting.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Convince people this is music... i dare you
I just can't get my head around it.

It's music in much the same way that a particularly bad bout of diarrhea is music. It has no discernible melody, it pauses for no apparent reason, there appears to be only one instrument that isn't even trying, and if you record it, then more elite publications will herald it as an impressionistic masterpiece.

Personally, my classically trained ear feels like it was run over by a car.

Funny you should phrase things the way you did. It was in fact played in on one instrument. Something called an intonarumori(or something like that) and it was meant to give people the "beatiful music of a waking industrialised society, displaying the sounds of the city.

So, yeah, it could very well have been run over by a car

 

[zehydra]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

they do, but only in a meaningful sense. Not in a musical sense (with exception to the rhythm, but often times it rides off of pre-existing rhythms, rather than adding to rhythms)

Edit: By "meaningful" I mean expressing poetic meaning in a song

 

[4173]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

they do, but only in a meaningful sense. Not in a musical sense (with exception to the rhythm, but often times it rides off of pre-existing rhythms, rather than adding to rhythms)

Edit: By "meaningful" I mean expressing poetic meaning in a song

I don't understand. Are cymbals musical? Is the 7th violin playing the exact same thing as the other 6? I'm just going off Wikipedia, but even if the vocals aren't part of the melody of the rest of the band, could we not then say it has its own melody and creating a polyphony?

 

[zehydra]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

they do, but only in a meaningful sense. Not in a musical sense (with exception to the rhythm, but often times it rides off of pre-existing rhythms, rather than adding to rhythms)

Edit: By "meaningful" I mean expressing poetic meaning in a song

I don't understand. Are cymbals musical? Is the 7th violin playing the exact same thing as the other 6? I'm just going off Wikipedia, but even if the vocals aren't part of the melody of the rest of the band, could we not then say it has its own melody and creating a polyphony?

yes, cymbals are musical, because they help establish rhythm. Polyphony is also musical.

However, pitchless vocals cannot create polyphony, because in order to have polyphony, you need multiple melodies running at once. Pitchless vocals, due to lack of pitch, cannot create melody.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

How do I link a clip? I would love to share.

 

[4173]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

they do, but only in a meaningful sense. Not in a musical sense (with exception to the rhythm, but often times it rides off of pre-existing rhythms, rather than adding to rhythms)

Edit: By "meaningful" I mean expressing poetic meaning in a song

I don't understand. Are cymbals musical? Is the 7th violin playing the exact same thing as the other 6? I'm just going off Wikipedia, but even if the vocals aren't part of the melody of the rest of the band, could we not then say it has its own melody and creating a polyphony?

yes, cymbals are musical, because they help establish rhythm. Polyphony is also musical.

However, pitchless vocals cannot create polyphony, because in order to have polyphony, you need multiple melodies running at once. Pitchless vocals, due to lack of pitch, cannot create melody.

Again, just from Wikipedia it seems like they could have pitch, as long as they produce a stable enough frequency. And the article even mentions speech as having pitch.

 

[zehydra]

music==noise

why is it some people can't get that.

organized noise. For instance, listening to a sound recording of traffic isn't listening to music. I'll grant that hardcore/death metal is in fact music, and that music is largely subjective, but I do think the point can be made that constant pitchless screaming is unmusical.

But that doesn't make you any less of a person for liking it.

I bang two rocks together it makes noise, someone else hears music. Also isn't constant pitchless screaming metal *runs away laughing*...I kid of course

there has to be some sort of intelligent organization of the sound to be music.

The reason I think pitchless screaming is unmusical, is because it (usually) does not add to defining the rhythm(s) within the song, and does not add to any kind of melodic/harmonic structure of the song. All it's there for is the expression of lyrics (and to establish an angry tone [which can be done well with melodic vocals]), which is technically unnecessary for music. Lyrics are usually used to express an explicit meaning to a song, but are not actually musical by themselves. They are poetry.

Problem with that is I don't analyze music like that (I have a friend just like you). If I think it sounds good then it's good.

well sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's music. You know what I mean? For instance, I love the sound of rain, I think it sounds quite nice, but I understand that it's not music.

I have no idea if it meets the technical definition, but I think it is quite easy to argue that harsh vocals are themselves an instrument contributing to the song.

they do, but only in a meaningful sense. Not in a musical sense (with exception to the rhythm, but often times it rides off of pre-existing rhythms, rather than adding to rhythms)

Edit: By "meaningful" I mean expressing poetic meaning in a song

I don't understand. Are cymbals musical? Is the 7th violin playing the exact same thing as the other 6? I'm just going off Wikipedia, but even if the vocals aren't part of the melody of the rest of the band, could we not then say it has its own melody and creating a polyphony?

yes, cymbals are musical, because they help establish rhythm. Polyphony is also musical.

However, pitchless vocals cannot create polyphony, because in order to have polyphony, you need multiple melodies running at once. Pitchless vocals, due to lack of pitch, cannot create melody.

Again, just from Wikipedia it seems like they could have pitch, as long as they produce a stable enough frequency. And the article even mentions speech as having pitch.

while technically true, it is not audible as a pitch. That is, it technically does have a pitch, but it's impossible to hear what it is, thus nullifying any of the pitch's significance.

 

[UmJammerSully]

had one of my friends the other day criticize me for my love of yoshida brothers because "there's no lyrics"

Welp, your friend is an idiot. 'Nuff said. ;D

Anyway, I listen to mathcore so I've heard the "It's just noise" claim all too many times, both from ignorant asses and music buffs alike.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Viewed by some as noise, but I think it's pretty kickass.

Mmm, mmm. UneXpect. I love that band. They're deliciously good, though "Desert Urbania" is my personal favorite from In A Flesh Aquarium.

I'm honestly the biggest metalhead in my town, but most of my friends and acquaintances aren't really all that into it. I mean, sure, some of them like the bigger bands like Avenged Sevenfold, Iron Maiden and Megadeth and that's great. Hell, a couple of them even enjoy bands like Gojira, Mastodon and Protest The Hero. But they're all classic rock kids at heart. Thankfully though, as most of my friends are musicians, like myself, we all happen to respect each others musical preferences so nobody has ever called anybody's music just "noise". So after reading through this thread I realized how good I actually have it.

I do, however, have two other friends who once told me that jazz sucks. I sat there staring at them, slack-jawed, for almost a minute. Thankfully though, they're the only ones in my social circle who are like that. And their opinions can't be changed.