I'd say it's more pop culture in general being extremely anti-intellectual of late. Gaming is popular now as well, and thus inherits a slice of the pie.
What's interesting, they do criticise modern rating system and how iflated it tends to be(Which i generally agree with. Numbers summaring reviews are bullshit.) in this article: https://killscreen.com/articles/note-reviews/. Then, they rate DNF with whooping '-1000' score. I dunno, does that mean all the numbers there should be treated as a jab?CaitSeith said:It doesn't help that the "review" appears in Metacritic either. The people who frequent Metacritic probably are the ones with the least patience towards such analysis.MrCalavera said:snipThe Jovian said:snip
The details are scant, not non-existant. Besides, if you find a wounded character inside a building, surrounded by rubble, and there's a hole in the roof above his head, and there's a giant monster on the roof, then you can probably piece together what happened. Also, the director has confirmed certain details.Corey Schaff said:If it hardly tells you anything, how do you know that anything is actually implied, and you're not just creating a wholecloth narrative out of an Inkblot?Fox12 said:Dark Souls is a game that needs time to sink in. It won't tell you almost anything. It's too subtle for that. Instead you have to figure things out on your own.
It also understands that brevity is the soul of whit, and that writing isn't good because it is long. Dark Souls says what it needs to say, and moves on. It's more about implication anyway...
Given how many gamers demand that video games be treated with "respect" and viewed as a "mature form of art", it's confusing that a significant portion of that lot will then turn around and say "just focus on playing, stop thinking about the other stuff too much". Mature media is examined from a variety of angles; a discussion about the lighting and camera angles of a Transformers movie is just as valid as to whether they got Optimus Prime's coloration wrong, and we can talk about historical themes reflected in Game of Thrones just like we can talk about how our favorite character died horribly.Zeconte said:I always love to see how many gamers get absolutely infuriated and indignant over game critics daring to critique a game in a way they personally disprove of.
If Kill Screen were treating games "like art," they wouldn't be capping off their exploration of a game's deep themes by giving it a numerical rating on a scale of 1 to 100. ("Hamlet: Compelling meditation on mortality and obsession, marred by patriarchal assumptions and boring Fortinbras subplot. 78/100.)" If Kill Zone chooses to adopt the trappings of a review, something to help consumers decide if a game is worth their time and money, they deserve to be criticized for delivering an ideological lecture instead.The Jovian said:It's the kind of hypocrisy in which gamers say that games are art so that they're not exempt from anti-censorship laws but scoff at the notion of anyone treating them like art.
If I wrote a review of Wagner's Ring cycle that was mostly complaining that it doesn't follow actual Norse mythology very faithfully and declared that it wasn't worth listening to because of that, rather than talking about music, that would be a very poor opera review. Even if my criticisms of Wagner's treatment of his source material was accurate and insightful, it would STILL be a very poor opera review.The Jovian said:And now I have to ask: why is it that video game reviews aren't allowed to talk mostly about narrative and or provide in-depth analysis of the work and it's themes? Why does this stigma against anything but the most clinical, bare-bones, just-the-facts, gameplay-only reviews even exists?
The OP asked if gamer culture was anti-intellectual.Corey Schaff said:Since this places values and attempts to persuade in emotional terms, I'd hardly call it intellectual. It's a polemic piece. As is this thread....
The author of the article made no statements about the mental contents of another person. He's making the rational argument that an artist's intent isn't necessarily relevant to an artwork's sociopolitical importance. Your paraphrasing is misleading, at best.Corey Schaff said:"It doesn't matter what you say you think, I know what you actually think, and you're perverse for thinking it" - Truly, this is intellectualism in action.
Have you seen any reviews that are exclusively about the lighting angles in the transformers movies? Or I think more relevant to Killscreen's reviews have you seen any reviews that explicitly omit talking about some part of filmmaking such as acting or sound design because the reviewer doesn't think they add to the conversation? I think there is a world of difference between saying "we are writing reviews to focus on excellence in storytelling and largely we try not to focus on gameplay"(which Killscreen doesn't say for reference) and straight up saying:The Rogue Wolf said:snip
Then they are not reviews. They are personal blogs at best and political soapboxing at worst. The one linked in OP being the latter."We like to stay away from the word "gameplay." Kill Screen?s primary concern is the interaction between games and culture, and so that's what our reviews hold a game to task for: how it reflects and responds to the world around it."
Right, Dark Souls 2. You've been playing the wrong one.Pseudonym said:Well Dark Souls has always seemed to me as a good example of a game that is often misjudged. There is a steam review of Dark Souls 2 that sums it up quite neatly. It goes as follows: Bearer... Seek... Seek... Lest... From what I've played of Dark Souls 2 (which was the first 70% and the first 30% twice, I've watched my roommate play the rest), the strenght of that game was it's gameplay, and secondarily its theme and atmosphere. The dialogue was cringeworthy and pretentious, the story was barely there and whatever themes it has are still mostly explored by killing things and walking into various death traps for 40 hours which is far longer than the story and themes require to be shown. I certainly didn't see any 'deep philosophy' and most of its thematic strength started to wear thin after twenty hours. I've seen various analyses of Dark Souls and unless Dark souls 1 is very different from Dark Souls 2 (and the first couple of hours where damn near identical to Dark Souls 2, I didn't play it after that) I think the narrative elements of Dark Souls are not nearly as important to the game as people tell themselves. Had the gameplay been ever so slightly less engaging, then I doubt it would have had anywhere near its popularity.
It's really not as black and white as you're making it out to be. While there are always people who will be angry no matter what you say, the general sentiment doesn't really seem to be "only focus on the gameplay", but rather, "don't only focus on how your perception of this game's themes align with your own political views." There is room for discussion of a game's themes, story and even politics, but as is clear, a lot of gamers are getting rather sick of all these reviews that read more like a political blog than a videogame review.The Rogue Wolf said:Given how many gamers demand that video games be treated with "respect" and viewed as a "mature form of art", it's confusing that a significant portion of that lot will then turn around and say "just focus on playing, stop thinking about the other stuff too much". Mature media is examined from a variety of angles; a discussion about the lighting and camera angles of a Transformers movie is just as valid as to whether they got Optimus Prime's coloration wrong, and we can talk about historical themes reflected in Game of Thrones just like we can talk about how our favorite character died horribly.Zeconte said:I always love to see how many gamers get absolutely infuriated and indignant over game critics daring to critique a game in a way they personally disprove of.
But apparently wanting to examine anything about games aside from what happens when you press X to not die somehow "sucks the fun out of it".
Zontar said:That actually makes it exactly like the Citizen Kane of video games if we're being honest. It's an ok movie but it certainly did not age well and wasn't really the masterpiece many make it out to be.someguy1231 said:For example, I consider "The Last of Us" one of the most overrated games of the last gen, yet some people think it's the "Citizen Kane" of video games.
No, we're just not tolerant of opinions.Jadedvet said:Most of my arguments against that article have been covered but let me throw out one more.
Progressives are quick to give slap labels like "anti intellectual" on people who oppose or are just not interested in their arguments. Could it be that some gamers are very much intellectuals only they see the progressives arguments as dumb?