The 'best' morle choice system.

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

I liked the Witcher's system.

There is no good/evil system. Just choices and consequences. You determine whether the choices are good or evil, not the game. Which I think is the best, since everyone has differing opinions on whats good/evil.

It sounds allot like Dragon age and seeming that Witcher is an older game I belive they borowed it, a good decision if you ask me.
I have a problem with DA:2, I belive they are planning to make the system more Mass effect...ey. I belive they should do it the other way round as, personally, I think DA is the better game in everthing barring the level of the cinematics. If ME felt like anything it was that I was the lead character in a realy good and 'epic' sci-fi movie. While this is good it's not somthing I want from DA.

 

[Kpt._Rob]

That's probably the worst butchering of the term "moral" I've eveer seen.

OT: I'm going to go with Oblivion... mostly because it didn't have one. Moral choice systems, in my personal and obviously expert opinion, are an annoyance. They don't actually reflect my real morality, for instance in Fallout 3 I looted and killed constantly and for no real reason other than "that would look cool in my house" or "Moira is really annoying, I think I'll make her eat a round from the unique fatman launcher... let's see how she likes five mini nukes at once." But I was still hero of the wastes because I gave a homeless guy some water. And when games don't give me the choice to just do some stupid thing like that to raise my karma, then they force me to play in ways that I wouldn't normally play if I want to get what I want to get. That's annoying. I'll be moral in real life. In a videogame... I just want to have some god damned fun. Also, how the hell do all the people around me know about how ammoral I am if I choose to play like that? If I kill off every single person in the Brotherhood of Steel so I could reverse pickpocket their armor onto the people of Megaton... how do the other people in the world know I did that? The only people who could've told anyone I did it are about as dead as dead gets.

That's why Oblivion's choice, of just giving me a wanted rating, is far superior. First, it lets me just play the damn game how I wanted to in the first place. I don't have to worry about arbitrarily being good or bad at the right time for a certain reward or punishment. And since I like to play as a thief/assassin type character, I'm rewarded for doing my job right (that is, not getting seen) and I'm only punished when I get caught. Instead of having the invisible horns that grew out of my head reveal to everyone what an asshole I am even when I'm in my likable public persona.

 

[Judgement101]

I like Alpha Protocol's, piss of the informant and risk him telling the enemy your plans or give him cash if you're feeling charitable or do the suave response if you're feeling......yeahhhhh I'll leave it at that.

 

[Dexiro]

I think vague dialogue choices (DA:O) integrated with karma (FO3, perks included), faction reputation and individual character reputation.

I think that'd be pretty hard to manage, and that's the way it should be. Life is unpredictable so the moral system of games should reflect that.
I just think we should get as far as possible away from "good choice" "bad choice".

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

I liked Red Dead Redemption's. If you're good, you get lower prices and people respect you. If you're bad, people hunt you down and you're feared. Also, there really is no pressure to do anything. I think that is the best kind of moral choice system: the one that doesn't force it down your throat. The cutscenes are vague enough that you can make any choice and it doesn't feel out of place.

Fallout 3's was also well done. It let you choose what partner you got, but it also had small but interesting consequences in the world. If you were a goody-two shoes like I was, you have bands of raiders hunt you down. If you're bad, people just shoot at you for entering a town.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

*ahem**cough**cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_KU3lUx3u0&feature=related *cough* *cough*

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

Snippy McSnipster

Actualy on closer inspection you may notice Oblivion does have a moral choice system. It's on your stats page I belive and it's your 'Fame' and 'Infamy'. It's basicly numbers which I belive never go down, it only effects wether you can pray at the churches for healing (if your fame is level or higher then your infamy) and if you get 20 'Fame points' you can get a quest and if you get 20 'infamy points' you get another. It definetly doesn't have the same level of importance.
PS: I spellchecked morle but nothing came up so I assumed it was right.

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

*ahem**cough**cough* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_KU3lUx3u0&feature=related *cough* *cough*

That's what sparked the idea for this thread... I saw his escapist video and heard he had a couple of YouTube things so I watched 'em.
He definetly provides food for thought, no?
Now I want to become a Game script writer so I can get it right! For I am inspired.
Come to think of it I can't decide wether I want to be a therepist, author, movie script writer or a game script writer.
I just went way off topic AGAIN! I've got to stop doing that.

 

[Pearwood]

I agree with the theoretical moral choice system in Jade Empire, if the game actually played like the closed fist/open palm definitions said it'd easily have the best. But since it has a villain who's open palm I'm gonna have to say that anyway.

... Who was that?

The final boss of the game was open palm, s/he sacrificed a lot to achieve his/her goals. And open palm is all about sacrifice is it not?

 

[manythings]

See this is something I've been trying to figure out for a long time and recently I think I've picked out why I think the moral choice thing has never been bad. I Know the character before I start. With every play through I don't just good/bad/neutral, I think of the character themself in context. (This is more for anyone who cares skip to the asterisks if you don't.)

Using ME and ME 2 as my example. I had four save games coming into ME 2.
Shep 1: Sole Survivor and Colonist; I played paragon because I believed this was the kind of character that had seen bad and would never settle for anything less than saving everyone they could, sparing anyone who asked for mercy and giving people a second chance. Always willing to talk if people they were.

Shep 2: Spacer and Ruthless; This Shepherd was Renegade. Always meeting force head on, no one getting the chance to surrender, everyone was a potential threat and treated like that. No authority would stop him, you either helped you stayed out of the way. He was worth fearing because he followed a straight line to his his objective and if you were in the way he didn't give you the option to move.

Shep 3: Earthborn and War Hero; This one was neutral-ish trending to good in good/bad choices. He'd grown up in slums, run with a gang, commited crimes but only because that was the only open option until he could join up and cast off that life. He knew about the grey of life in places that weren't perfect like the Presidium, he knew everyone was a little dirty because that was the only way to live in that kind of place.


*****My basic point is other people don't seem to really put anything of themself into their Avatar. If you put yourself into the character and make an honest choice from the way you look at them the choices aren't hollow. That being said there are choices that I can never find justification for like the Samara Mission in ME2. I can't build a logical reason for Shepherd to make the Other choice.

 

[badvibration]

Witcher.
Basically, you get to choose between bad and worse, and every choice has its own good and bad sides.
Even, not so good, First Act with the classic theme of the witch. It's not clearly stated who is good or bad.
Dragon Age took much from Witchers moral choice system.

These two games have my favorite moral systems, and while dragon age took a lot from the witcher, i think i like it's better because not only are the choices unclear, but the the choices you make affect your parties members opinions of you, which in turn affects their skills.

 

[manythings]

I agree with the theoretical moral choice system in Jade Empire, if the game actually played like the closed fist/open palm definitions said it'd easily have the best. But since it has a villain who's open palm I'm gonna have to say that anyway.

... Who was that?

The final boss of the game was open palm, s/he sacrificed a lot to achieve his/her goals. And open palm is all about sacrifice is it not?

No? He used people as he needed to then dispensed with them. He made sure Two Rivers was destroyed utterly so the hero would have no other choice but to leave. He murdered without remorse and only pursued the path of personal power. How is any of that in keeping with maintaining order and harmony with the world?

 

[StriderShinryu]

I was actually thinking about this earlier in regards to the way things are supposedly going to be spelled out in DA2 with little icons denoting what the "good" option is, what the "evil" option is, etc.

I totally agree that DA:O had the best choice/morality system. Your choices weren't just about what's the "good" thing to do and what's the "bad: thing to do, they were about the situation in general and your own thoughts or reactions to them. In some situations there weren't even any "good" options to choose from because, heck, life's just like that sometimes. I also greatly liked that each of your companions reacted individually to your choices based on their own personalities. It wasn't just Leliana likes when you're the good guy and Morrigan likes when you're the bad guy; not just your "evil" bar has gone too high and Leliana doesn't like you anymore.

 

[ICanBreakTheseCuffs]

bet no ones really played this game but Metro 2033 because it didn't just say "you earned good karma"it made a soothing sound when good and a darker sound when bad.the endings actually never told which was bad and which wasn't unlike other games where it was just obvious your bad.the evil ending when you fiqured it out is acually very evil but the main character,Artyom,doesn't realise he commited an VERY EVIL act and right now I sound like wikipedia now don't I

 

[Harlemura]

inFamous's.
Because it's the only game in which helping someone to their feet or jolting into next Friday decides whether you can use a charged up, fairly tactical cover neutraliser, or just fire so much lightning at them that they could give a static shock to half of the USA.

So basically, it changes gameplay. And I like that. For some reason.

 

[Pearwood]

I agree with the theoretical moral choice system in Jade Empire, if the game actually played like the closed fist/open palm definitions said it'd easily have the best. But since it has a villain who's open palm I'm gonna have to say that anyway.

... Who was that?

The final boss of the game was open palm, s/he sacrificed a lot to achieve his/her goals. And open palm is all about sacrifice is it not?

No? He used people as he needed to then dispensed with them. He made sure Two Rivers was destroyed utterly so the hero would have no other choice but to leave. He murdered without remorse and only pursued the path of personal power. How is any of that in keeping with maintaining order and harmony with the world?

Persuing power doesn't make him necessarily CF, yes he wanted power but when he gained power he wasn't exactly a tyrant was he? He seemed to genuinely want to help the people of the Jade Empire, the reasons for killing him were basically revenge and disgust at his methods.

 

[Yossarian1507]

The Witcher and Alpha Protocol had probably the best moral choice systems of all times, as they were as grey as they could get, and therefore it was much easier to player to act as he/she would really act in situation like that.

Dragon Age? Nah, that moral choice system sucked. I remember myself at the beginning game with Sten, Morrigan and Allistair and a 3 dialog choice option. Whatever choice I picked would give me +2-3 points from one companion and -3-5 points from other two companions. And even in less annoying moments it felt like a lot weaker Alpha Protocol moral choice system. Another brick in the wall of my DA: O wall of disappointments.

 

[Dango]

I really liked the one in Fallout 3, because it kinda stayed out of the way the whole game.