The 'best' morle choice system.

[Aisaku]

I don't care as much about moral choice systems as for freedom of choice, being able to see my character's influence on the world. I don't care as much for 'good' or 'evil' choices as long as there's a choice. Makes you feel you're actually roleplaying a character, not an errand boy/girl.

 

[InnerRebellion]

I liked the karma system from inFamous, because it influenced how the civilians treated the player when the Reapers/Dustmen/First Sons attacked.

 

[Paragon Fury]

The best system would have to be one without a morality system, but rather an "Choice/Consequence" system.

The game itself has no opinion of you, but each AI has their own system of values and opinions, and any choice you make is checked by them against how they feel.

Dragon Age was a start, but it lacked in one key area; the ability to influence and deal with those opinions and morals in the AI. You couldn't go talk to Leliana or Wynne about their issues, or to Shale about hers, etc.

 

[manythings]

No? He used people as he needed to then dispensed with them. He made sure Two Rivers was destroyed utterly so the hero would have no other choice but to leave. He murdered without remorse and only pursued the path of personal power. How is any of that in keeping with maintaining order and harmony with the world?

Persuing power doesn't make him necessarily CF, yes he wanted power but when he gained power he wasn't exactly a tyrant was he? He seemed to genuinely want to help the people of the Jade Empire, the reasons for killing him were basically revenge and disgust at his methods.

*Spoilers be here*


He didn't want to fix the problem he made, he wanted to take what wasn't his and use it for his own benefit. No one else was included in his decision making process. When you think of yourself alone you aren't going to do anything that helps anyone unless it is purely conincidental. How many good people can plan the murder of someone who is, ostensibly, their own child for 20 years? Saren can be considered an ambiguous villain but Master Li is just plain bad.

 

[Booze Zombie]

The Dragon Age "moral choice", which is to say... "black and white, I can deal with, but grey... I don't know what to do with grey".

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

The Witcher and Alpha Protocol had probably the best moral choice systems of all times, as they were as grey as they could get, and therefore it was much easier to player to act as he/she would really act in situation like that.

Dragon Age? Nah, that moral choice system sucked. I remember myself at the beginning game with Sten, Morrigan and Allistair and a 3 dialog choice option. Whatever choice I picked would give me +2-3 points from one companion and -3-5 points from other two companions. And even in less annoying moments it felt like a lot weaker Alpha Protocol moral choice system. Another brick in the wall of my DA: O wall of disappointments.

My point is that it didn't tell you wether you chose to be or bad, it leaves that desicion up to you. Sure it tells you what your companoins think but none of them are truly good or evil. Many a time I found myself pondering on what I had done was good or bad and one character I chose the decisions I would make, good mostly but unable to sacrifice myself, it truly helped me feel immersed into the world and to me that's what is most important in a game, immersion and story.
The story in AP is the only thing that kept me going through it with my stealth, CQC, shotgun and pistol user. Looking back I chose the worst possible combination for the game. Goddamed forced boss battles.

 

[RatRace123]

I agree with the OP, Dragon Age: Origins gets my vote for best moral choice system.

Having no bar really makes it clear there's no right/wrong good/evil choices.

In second I'd probably put Alpha Protocol, since its system is basically the same as DA:O.

 

[Pearwood]

He didn't want to fix the problem he made, he wanted to take what wasn't his and use it for his own benefit. No one else was included in his decision making process. When you think of yourself alone you aren't going to do anything that helps anyone unless it is purely conincidental. How many good people can plan the murder of someone who is **? MSEFCT can be considered an ambiguous villain but XXX is just plain bad.

Indeed he was plain bad, he's probably the most unambiguously evil human villain Bioware have ever made. But he followed the Open Palm path pretty much completely which is why I have to say that it's still the best moral choice system in a game.

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

The best system would have to be one without a morality system, but rather an "Choice/Consequence" system.

The game itself has no opinion of you, but each AI has their own system of values and opinions, and any choice you make is checked by them against how they feel.

Dragon Age was a start, but it lacked in one key area; the ability to influence and deal with those opinions and morals in the AI. You couldn't go talk to Leliana or Wynne about their issues, or to Shale about hers, etc.

If Alpha Protacol did anything it nailed the choice/concequence 'thing'. I wouldn't reccomend it (thank god I rented it) but totaly nailed it, hell, even Yahtzee agrees somewhat. It is the only game were 'every choice has a concequence'.

 

[infinity_turtles]

He didn't want to fix the problem he made, he wanted to take what wasn't his and use it for his own benefit. No one else was included in his decision making process. When you think of yourself alone you aren't going to do anything that helps anyone unless it is purely conincidental. How many good people can plan the murder of someone who is **? MSEFCT can be considered an ambiguous villain but XXX is just plain bad.

Indeed he was plain bad, he's probably the most unambiguously evil human villain Bioware have ever made. But he followed the Open Palm path pretty much completely which is why I have to say that it's still the best moral choice system in a game.

To think solely of your own advancement is the path of the closed fist. Sure, he wasn't just mindlessly violent, but as Bioware's site says "The Way of the Closed Fist is not based entirely upon doing violence, despite its name. Individuals following this path may be quicker to resort to violence than others, but a trained warrior can wound just as easily with the open hand as he can with the closed fist."

 

[manythings]

He didn't want to fix the problem he made, he wanted to take what wasn't his and use it for his own benefit. No one else was included in his decision making process. When you think of yourself alone you aren't going to do anything that helps anyone unless it is purely conincidental. How many good people can plan the murder of someone who is **? MSEFCT can be considered an ambiguous villain but XXX is just plain bad.

Indeed he was plain bad, he's probably the most unambiguously evil human villain Bioware have ever made. But he followed the Open Palm path pretty much completely which is why I have to say that it's still the best moral choice system in a game.

It's interesting enough that we can actually play the exact same game, see the exact same content and still have contrary opinions.

 

[Levitas1234]

Dungeons and dragons table to, because you can choose to do anything.

/thread

 

[Pearwood]

Text

But it wasn't really advancement, he felt entitled to that position.

Yeah I agree, an argument can be formed that even the villain follows the "good" path so it certainly is a strong competitor

 

[tehroc]

Ultima IV, where the main goal is to be the Avatar, moral paragon for the world. It was an invisible stat that game keeps track of in 8 virtues whos needs are met by accomplishing behaviors, such as giving food to the starving to satisfy compassion or not fleeing from battles to prove your valor.

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

Dungeons and dragons table top, because you can choose to do anything.

/thread

*annoyed*
I wish somone around my area would play it!
I realy want to try but I can't!
To be honest you have a point but I meant Video Games so back to the drawing board with you!

 

[Nannernade]

I have to go with the Fallout 3 "Moral" Choice System it is my "favorite" because it is put right out there, will you keep the wasteland alive, or will you kill it, will you betray your friends or will you ultimately save their lives. Not big on a game where it's not blatant it and makes you think about what could happen even though it never will, sure in Fallout 3 you could say the Super Mutants came from Vault 76... or you could think hmm maybe I can lie and say they came from Vault 92 yes then they will all be devoured by Deathclaws bwahahahahah!
Doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

I really liked the one in Fallout 3, because it kinda stayed out of the way the whole game.

Bullcrap. The system from Fallout 2 was way better. Probably the best. (i.e. your karma/reputation is by town, rather than a universal stat that all NPCs are somehow psychically privy to.)


Fallout 2 was the only moral choice system that ever made much sense. It wasn't an arbitrary good/evil dichotomy, it was simply a choice of helping bitches, or pissing them off. There's much more manoeuvrability when the morality is kept grey, both in terms of gameplay and story.

 

[PsionicAtlas]

I really liked the one in Fallout 3, because it kinda stayed out of the way the whole game.

this, and the fact that there's a mod that gives you a 'third' choice in The Pitt....

 

[conflictofinterests]

Mass Effect and Fallout 3 both tell you the moral implications of your actions.

Ideally, games wouldn't focus so much on "moral choice" as much as gaining favor within factions. Positive morality might be approximated by gaining favor with "good" factions, and negative morality might be approximated by gaining favor with "evil" factions, high enough bonuses in one faction might carry on to another because they interact and share stories about the PC, but unless there are literal angels and demons in a game, two-dimensional moral choice systems are a very retarded view of reality.

This sort of mechanic would also allow for a number of "good" and "evil" factions in which all good people don't have to necessarily like all other good people, etc.

 

[Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon]

I really liked the one in Fallout 3, because it kinda stayed out of the way the whole game.

Bullcrap. The system from Fallout 2 was way better. Probably the best. (i.e. your karma/reputation is by town, rather than a universal stat that all NPCs are somehow psychically privy to.)


Fallout 2 was the only moral choice system that ever made much sense. It wasn't an arbitrary good/evil dichotomy, it was simply a choice of helping bitches, or pissing them off. There's much more manoeuvrability when the morality is kept grey, both in terms of gameplay and story.

They're going back to that for New Vages. So if it's as good as you say it is I'm intreiged.
And it's more reputation then Karma BTW. I belive that New Vages is a test to see what mechanics they are going to use in Fallout: 4 and we know there will be a fallout: 4. Hopefully after ES:V.