The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

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sgtshock

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I love your stuff MovieBob, and I look forward to more of this series, but this is pretty much the definition of reading to much into things. You play as a godlike super soldier to justify why your AI teammates don't fight nearly as well as you, not because Bungie supports fascism. The covenant is not a group of multi-race aliens because Bungie subconsciously hates multiculturalism, it is to provide enemy variety, so you aren't shooting the same enemy the whole damn game. Plus, Halo 2 and 3 even made some of the aliens the good guys when roughly half of them rebelled from the evil alien zealots.

Not every damn thing has to have subtext.
 

subject_87

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Hoo yah! More MovieBob, explaining the disturbing similarities between Halo and Nazism! I could not be happier!
 

Dyp100

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This is series is going to be maxium trolling, I'm sure, but I at least respect you for moving from "HALO HAS NO STORY" to "HALOS STORY SEEMS A BIT ODD", at least that's a step in the right direction.

Personally, I think the whole thing about the Covenant is they're mostly innocent to the will of the Prophects, being slaves and all, even the higher races are such.
 

JugglerPanda

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Bob has a habit of being pseudo-intellectual when he talks about things he's unfamiliar with.
One of the main characters in the Halo series is black. The elites defect from the covenant as early as Halo 2 and fight alongside the humans. Fighting the same thing over and over again in a video game is not fun.

Bob took an incredibly large leap and made himself look like an idiot.
 

Knight Templar

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Dec 29, 2007
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So it's like the Gameoverthinker?

Anyway it's prehaps unfair to take away context to make your point about diversity, but the human government is not nice people with context.
Before the Covenant showed up we were busy putting down separatists, in not-so-nice ways. The Spartans were created to kill anybody who didn't want to be part of the whole UN thingy.
ONI in particular is quite, evil, but ONI is also the reason we are not dead.

EDIT:
JugglerPanda said:
Bob has a habit of being pseudo-intellectual when he talks about things he's unfamiliar with.
One of the main characters in the Halo series is black. The elites defect from the covenant as early as Halo 2 and fight alongside the humans. Fighting the same thing over and over again in a video game is not fun.

Bob took an incredibly large leap and made himself look like an idiot.
He's aware of those things, and I think you've missed his point.
The difference between a black man and a white man is nothing.
A Grunt and a Hunter?
Hell in Reach you can find more difference between two different grunts than any two marines. They have colour, form, species and mindset. We have personality.
 

Rednog

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I honestly don't know what to say, it felt like I was watching a car speed down a straight highway, suddenly decide to take a turn and ended up crashing and bursting into flames, and I just sat there dumbfounded on wtf just happened.
 

Koganesaga

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Wow so many remarks, guess it's because it's something new. At any rate, interesting movie and I'll take anything to anger those squeaky voice 10 year old fanboys that ruined halo for me.

Not looking forward too, but very curious as to what Ole Bob will do next week.
 

lukey94

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I see where ya was going with that mate, but really, saying that the UNSC represents the "pure master race" is probably (by which i mean most definitely) blowing things Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! out of proportion especially seeing as the in the Halo Universe the Human colonists and SPARTANS are largely ethnically mixed. Just seemed a bit like a typical rant about Halo... nothing new and original, it seems to be that Halo is all people complain about, when really it blows Half-Life and COD right out of the water (single-player and the novel universe that is). It's like Yahtzee says, if you notice something has depth and immersion then it's gone, but I rarely have that trouble with the Halo universe, there is so much story and background in there that I think most modern pretentious ...... (cant think of a better word here so I shall leave it blank) totally skip over, before going on to give crap like Limbo and Half-Life 10/10s and such and praising till the cows come home.


Obviously I respect the fact that these are my views and everyone is entitled to their freedom of speech (except Mudokens) but I just feel it's about time that this lame ass Halo-Hating needs to stop.
 

_Nocturnal

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I LIKE IT!

Ahem.
It works great as a bridge between the video and the weekly issue parts of the site. And Bob's certainly a great guy to fill the role: even more fun and cerebral content from him is always welcome.
I'm a bit concerned by the wide range of listed potential topics, but this first video? Perfect!
 

Twinmill5000

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TBH, when I played Halo 1 and 2 when I was little, I loved the covenant. Bungie did too, which is why you fought with them in the second and third. Not throughout the game, of course not, but the bad guys were technically the brutes -excluding the prohpets- and their facist-extremo views against the rest of the races. So it was more like a civil war than anything. The only reason why you don't see this in Reach is because it takes place before Halo 1, where these ideals you speak of were probably true throughout the staff.

God dammit, I'm going to make a game now. It's going to be a very crappy game and will probably crash every 2 minutes, and it's not going to be very big or advanced because I'll probably make it in Blitz3D instead of an actual, professional game engine, and the animation will be almost nonexistant and the art will suck, but at least it will have a good story and plot driving it. Both on the surface, and beneath.
 

Unesh52

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I'm not sure I buy what you're selling Bob-o (I only played Halo 2 with a friend and we skipped most cut-scenes), but I enjoyed hearing about it. I'm always in favor of the Escapist adding more shows.
 

Apackof12Ninjas

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Oct 12, 2009
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You know I watch Escape to the Movies every week and while I dont agree with some of your reviews and sly comments *IE: Every mention of Halo is met with contempt* this show certainly started off very badly. I mean what a swing and a miss!

For starters Bungie gave the people who made the commercial (who was hired by Microsofts PR division) certain information and templates to make the commercial. Which was a simple albeit somewhat erroneous idea of how a spartan is made.

I mean geez could you have chosen a worse way to get context about the story??? A television commercial even...

If you want proper context about the story its entirety read the books and play the games.
You would know that The reason the Covenent want kill the entire human race is because the Prophets (aka leader caste) discovered that the gods they worship (ancient species that was wiped out by the Halo effect) were the ancestors of humans IE contradicting their entire religion and said knowledge would literally destroy the covenent (IE the bonds between the Elite caste and the Prophet caste) Rather then lose power and dissolve the Covenent the prophets chose to hide all knowledge of the relationship between the Forerunners (aka ancient gods they worship) and wipe out all of humanity to retain their power and their Covenent.

Seriously you barely scratched the surface of the story and from that scratch you have come with the most craziest conclusion and over depth analysis I have ever heard.

Next thing I hear is how Smurfs is just another story with hidden ties to Racism, fascism, and bigots.
 

gilgamesh32

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Dec 29, 2008
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Well this was pretty lame. I guess it makes sense though, trolling a popular franchise is a good way to gain some early notoriety.
 

Monsterfurby

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I always thought you were supposed to be playing as the, erm, guys on the moral low ground in the Halo games. But then again, I never made it though part 2 without getting bored, so I might be wrong.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with the depiction of the two factions. Yeah, you're playing a genetically-engineered pseudo master-race representative who busies himself mowing down hordes of ethnically diverse aliens. Of course you're the bad guy. I always thought that was the point of the Halo-games, but maybe I've been overthinking it from the start.
 

Throwitawaynow

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Yay now we can get a show where someone bends over for Nintendo and says how xbox and ps3 are unoriginal, and have bad games.
 

Taipan

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Jul 20, 2009
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First of all, hooray, moar Moviebob! Now all they need to do is port over 'The Game Overthinker'

Now to the actual rev...discussion:

(I'll make my disclaimer here that I'm a fan of Halo. Caveat: I detest multiplayer against anyone except my friends. So yes, I'm one of the mythical few who play for the campaign)

Point 1: Despite my disagreement with Moviebob on a lot of his main arguments in this video (see below), I'm gonna have to agree that Reach was very meh in terms of characterisation. I actually knew who Kat and Carter were before playing (they feature in 'Ghosts of Onyx'), and I still had zero interest in the characters. The whole 'Jorge is like Chief, so he thinks Halsey is his mum' interactions were handled clumsily etc. This is coming from someone who religiously follows the background, reads all those pulp fiction add-ons to the universe, comics etc so I can quote worse examples (the whole 'token space time distortion alien artifact' in First Strike springs to mind). Also, Reach's relentless focus on these bland and uninteresting characters, when they could've had maybe a handful of Covenant cutscences (Halo Wars did this ok, yes I know it sucked) to break up the tedium, is especially annoying. Halo 3 moved the series in that direction, Reach completely blacked out the Covenant as having any motive or depth to the reasons for their invasion other than 'we hate humans'. Halo 1 introduced us to the Covies with a lot of mystery, Halo 2 actually developed things from their perspective, then Halo 3 and Reach take us back to square 1. What gives?

Point 2: The accusation of 'multi-cultural cooperative vs lily-white fascists' charge levelled against Halo is a complete misrepresentation of the background. If you're going to make broad sweeping statements about themes and subtexts, at least know the game universe well enough to qualify it. And, though this does sound weird, a playthrough of the games (especially Reach, which is the weakest story-line wise) doesn't really give you that. Its the novels and comics that can (not always, there is chaff out there) elevate the background from 'mildly interesting' to 'wow thats pretty interesting and deep'. Halo 3 is especially guilty of this, as it does jack-all to bring in the more interesting elements of the background (its one of the blandest videogames I've ever played, and its supposed to be the big finale!).

In-game, there is a variety of accents you hear from allies (and weirdly, always at least one Australian), although I will concede most of the main cast are white, with one notable exception. Sergeant Avery Johnson is black, he's pretty much equal to Chief in terms of bad-assery, and he plays an important role in the events of the game universe (everything from his weird resistance to the Flood, to his first contact with the Covies on Harvest, to him aiding the Chief and Arbiter at critical junctures in the plot). His death in Halo 3 is to provide closure for the character (I wish they'd done the same for Chief), and it's a lot better handled then, and I quote Yahtzee, ' the most epic death competition' of Reach.

So, I think it's grossly unfair to present the UNSC as being white supremacists. Lets take a look at the Covenant by comparison.

The Prophets, who are deceitful, cunning and manipulative, rule the Covenant in a nominal alliance with the Elites (I'm using game nicknames here, cos the actual 'alienspeak' names would be too obscure to most). The Prophets are the ones with an affinity for technology and knowledge, while the Elites are smart, tough, capable warriors (whose entire culture is very similar to Spartans). Below them exist the conquered. The Jackals are pirates and scavengers, who aren't as good fighters but more numerous than Elites and less skittish than Grunts (thus performing as auxiliary support, snipers etc). Grunts are the cannon fodder, who get bullied and pushed around by everyone else, because they are by and large stupid and easily intimidated. Hunters are worm conglomerates who are too simple (not stupid, just unambitious) to rise up (and they've already been threatened with annihilation once, so they play along). The Brutes are a recent addition, and compete with the Elites in the 'loyal warrior' category (the Elites have the annoying trait of thinking for themselves, whereas the Brutes virtually never question their orders). Drones are hive-mind workers who are only pressed into combat roles unsuited to Grunts, and even then only because of a lack of alternatives.

So, with all this variation, where are the fascist, supremacist overtones? The whole concept of the Great Journey, where those who lack faith (or whatever else is required, as determined by the Prophets) can't join the faithful in paradise. When you realise that the Prophets know from the start that they're trying to unlock a galaxy-wide degreaser (where grease = sentient beings), you see how ruthless and dangerous the Prophets really are. They are going to take only a chosen handful of obedient slaves with them, leaving everyone else to die. The fact the same artifact they're using to do this with is human-built makes them even bigger hypocrites. The justification given to the war with humanity is eerily similar to other ethnic cleansing campaigns from real historical events (ie the enemy is inherently evil cos I say so).

You can look at the treatment of the Grunts, Drones and Jackals. They are all killed with impunity by the Elites and Brutes whenever they displease. They are true slave races, whose only purpose is to fight to advance the cause of the Prophets. Elite commanders expend all three like bullets to wear down an enemy before making surgical strikes with their own, more valued warriors.

You can also look at the complete intolerance for dissent or alternate views. The Prophets want everyone toiling towards their goal, not distracted by other ideas or worse, opposed to them. To be fair, the UNSC is guilty of similar sins (the creation of the Spartans was to put down human rebellions surgically, avoiding all-out wars to bring worlds back into compliance), but at least its not a totalitarian theocracy.


Having said all that, I think the actual games have been uneven in terms of quality (storywise, we could argue all day about gameplay, graphics, AI etc). Halo 2 was kinda the peak for me, cos it actually presented things from the Covenant perspective and shed light on the reasons behind their holy war on humanity. Forcing the player to use the Arbiter in parallel to the Chief was a good idea executed relatively well, and they made sure it wasn't just a gimmick by giving the final boss battle to the Arbiter. Yes, it did leave on a cliffhanger, but any middle part to a trilogy has to do that to be relevant. You start with expectation of the first installment, you develop and build it up more, and you leave things uncertain for the third act to resolve.

Then in Halo 3, he gets relegated to supporting character status, and the focus is back on the 'insert your alter-ego here' Chief. I actually like the Master Chief, but the Arbiter is more fascinating in many ways. While the Spartans are all (essentially) heavily augmented children whose lives are expended by the military, the Arbiter is a failed commander who is given another chance at redemption. It's a pity we only get half a game to explore the Arbiter as a character, as in many ways he's more interesting than Chief. Don't get me wrong, I love the moral ambiguity of stealing children for a secret black-ops unit (so they can be sacrificed for the greater good), but the lack of allusion to that in the games does risk turning the Spartans into generic space marines at times (Reach comes the closest to this).

tl;dr UNSC is more inclusive than you think, the Covenant are racist and totalitarian, Reach did suck storyline-wise, and moar Moviebob = a better tomorrow
 

Nunny

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Aug 22, 2009
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Bleh, started reading the comments then noticed that there is 12 bloody pages...

I thought what made the Covenent evil was thier Religious based Genocide rather then being Multicultural, hell some of the races defected to the Humans side the moment the Religion was proven false.