The Big Picture: Correctitude

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matrix3509

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Sorry Bob, this video was just pretentious as all hell...

Wait a fucking minute, you just called out Jeff Dunham but in the same fucking breath praised South Park? A show that is comedically on the same level as Family Guy? Yeah you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
 

p3t3r

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not sure i like this show but i enjoyed this week's episode. i understand politcal correctness but sometimes they go to far. no more simon say's simon is a guys name has to be pat says. second plugs can't be called male and female. i have been calling them that since i was 3 i am not gonna change now.
 

bawkbawkboo1

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I totally predicted George Carlin was going to be in there when he started going through the names, before he got to Lenny Bruce even. Do I win something?
 

friboy2791

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Once again a very intelligent and thought provoking argument. I lament people calling me thing like "bleeding heart liberal" for not thinking Obama is the greatest threat to the American way since Hitler/Communists/Terrorism/insert national threat du jour, and actually agreeing with some of his policies. I have always been of the belief that one should never discuss politics because most people take a very close minded approach to politics saying that if you don't agree with them you are an idiot. I despise most tea partyists because i feel a majority of them are only part of it because they want to be assholes, and i hate the self proclaimed politically incorrect type because as you stated most of them are assholes.
Thank you for your insight Bob. I'm glad there's at least one intelligent voice on the internet for me to listen to.
 

moosek

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Last night's episode of House has some wisdom in it,

5th Grade kid, "Isn't that sexual harassment?"
House, "Not if you're attractive."

HR isn't as powerful as you might think. Dominate their weak/sycophantic personality with some assertive sass, and they will yield to your mighty presence.
 

atrain117

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Aug 3, 2010
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Just pointing that out that the shield that the purple bearded troll superhero was holding was upside down. The triangular symbol is supposed to face upward because it's the greek lambda symbol. That symbol represents Lacedaemonia, the original name for Sparta.

If you think I'm being a dick for pointing this out, then guess what: I just penetrated you mind with learning. Have fun sleeping now.
 

Logic 0

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Unfortunately most trolls are 9th degree black belts in this satanic reflexive judo known as PC.
 

ryukage_sama

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Mar 12, 2009
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Damn it, Bob! How is it that you see so clearly into my MIND!

I am curious about what context got you going on this rant, but I see and hear about the "PC backlash" and share your opinion about it. Recently, my father said that efforts to incorporate traditionally white, Anglosaxon material into a public school curriculum was effectively criminalized, which I called BS. We just need to keep calling them out on their baseless crusading and force their arguments to stand on their merits without the oppressed underdog handicap.
 

walsfeo

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MB202 said:
Wow... Now I feel bad for ever laughing at Jeff Dunham. Then again, I only laughed at his Walter sketches, the other ones weren't that funny to me.

Also, I don't think I've seen you this angry since your Transformers 2 review.

Don't feel bad, some of Dunham's stuff is hilarious. It may be a little jerky, a bit UnPC, and some of it in poor taste, but I find the ridicule of terrorists freak'n hilarious. The way he mocks stupid white bigots with his old man character and how one of his dolls is some raceless monster. Funny stuff. Some folks just don't like anything less than 20 years old.

In all though, I liked this episode. I agreed with most of it, though there were some examples or definitions that Bob gave which felt more like bitter dregs than legit complaints.
 

Ritter315

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Arent you using "This is the 21st century, society has changed" In the exact manner you used to critic the mis-use of the idea of Political Correctness? just a thought.
 

walsfeo

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stinkychops said:
HankMan said:
Seemed a little more aggravated than usual this week Bob.
I'm pretty sure changing stories and characters to reflect times that the stories aren't set in or adding races that simply weren't there IS political correctness. But otherwise spot on.
I agree completely.
It's tradition, since even before Shakespeare and pre-dating the Arthurian tales, and those storytellers weren't concerned with anything more PC than not being executed for supporting the wrong monarch and they rewrote older tales all of the time. The Romans did it, the Christians have done it, everyone rewrites for modern times. Think of all the movies that have been re-written.
 

Xenetethrae

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John Poling II said:
wildcard9 said:
P.S: "Gringo" is not a racial slur on par with the N-Word: it just means "white person" while the other is a hateful, disgusting term. That is all.
Actually the N-word comes from the Latin word "niger" meaning black.... Your argument is silly.
Agreed.

People get offended because something that was said offends them (directly or indirectly), not because what was said is an "offensive statement" in general. Whether or not something offends you is completely subjective; you cannot tell me what is or isn't offensive.

I might say ******, but the word itself carries no negative denotation and I may not mean it in a hateful way. Nonetheless, a black person might take offense anyway because of the history of the word and the negative connotation it carries for him/her.

Similarly, I might be offended by being called a gringo (I am white and live in SoCal so this has happened before). I am not offended by the meaning of the word, but by the weight that it carries to me personally. You cannot tell me that it doesn't offend me. It does.

Either way, Bob was right in saying that people should strive to be nice. But I'll be damned if someone ever tries to force me to be PC. I'll defend my right to be a dick to the death!!!!!
 

SamElliot'sMustache

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An example of how being "anti-PC" has gone too far, since everyone likes to think that it's being "PC" that has gone too far:

I used to work down in the printing press/basement of the local newspaper, and I'd always joke around with the other workers about random shit. One night, one of them was talking about how when she was a kid, she and her sister would walk down by the train tracks, and there was this guy who didn't have a home who stayed out that way, collecting cans and bottles. At some point in the story, she mentioned how she had given him a name and everything, at which point I seized on the opportunity to say "I bet you wanted to take him home and go, 'Mommy, Mommy, I found a homeless man, can I keep him?'" One of the other workers took offense at this, saying that I had been 'indoctrinated by political correctness' into calling the man 'homeless' instead of a 'bum.'

This struck me as a bit silly, as the word 'bum' is rather vague and generic, and could refer to a beggar (also a vague term associated with the homeless), a slacker, or someone's butt. Sure, I could have used another term, such as 'drifter,' or 'vagabond,' which also relate, but those terms imply that the person moves, where as this man seemed to stay around the same general area. It seems to me that 'homeless man' is not only an accurate descriptor for the man in the story within my anecdote, but also one that's neutral ('political correctness' is usually about making things sound nice, and I can't imagine anyone thinking 'homeless man' as a nice term), but pointing this out to the other worker led to him blah blah blahing about how 'no one tells it like it is anymore' and yadda yadda yadda 'everyone's so sensitive' (and me banging my head against a brick wall to do something productive). Never mind that I was making a joke about someone taking ownership of another human being as if they were a pet, let's get offended because I used more than one syllable to describe a man, and did so more accurately than if I were 'telling it like it is.' And that's what the weird irony of being 'anti-PC' is: people getting so offended about other people not going out of their way to be offensive that they come across the same as the oversensitive ninnies that they pretend are oppressing their rights to free speech. It's silly, it's dumb, and Bob is right to say most of the people who complain about this are just mad because they can't say ni---wait, better not finish that sentence, as this topic's not worth a banhammer.
 

RyePunk

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I'm not quite sure what that was. I couldn't tell if you were defending politically correct or the other one.
But I suppose that's the closest Bob's ever gonna get to talking about PC games.
 

DPunch4

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May 6, 2009
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I don't agree with everything you said. I don't want a black person taking a white persons role in any remake. Unless it's re-imagining the whole movie. You wouldn't cast a white kid as Michael Jackson when hew was 8.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Therumancer said:
I disagree with almost 100%. I also think you should leave politics of this sort out of your videos.

The problem here is that your disapproval of the "politically correct" arguement is largely that your on the opposite side of the spectrum that uses it, and as such don't like the way it portrays your own personal political biases. Your basically being just as bad, if not worse, as the people you are making a critique of.

Let me get down to one of the biggest parts of why your point of view is a problem. You are portraying bigotry as always being bad. The thing is that nothing can be changed when there is a problem, unless people acknowlege that it exists. Take American black culture for example which is very much anti-societal assimilation, and anti-intellectual at the very least. You make judgements about it, and of course your a bigot, someone who defends this as being okay or "just the way it is" is being politically incorrect. I look at guys like Bill Cosby (who has a PHD in Children's Education) and how he goes on about Black america's attitude of entitlement, and not taking advantage of the oppertunities that have been provided for it. When you have entire major racial subcultures that see education and getting a regular rut-like job as "selling out" you have an issue, and one that needs to be addressed. Of course you start singling out these aspects of black society, defining them, and trying to take action, and your being a bigot. The problem is being a bigot does not mean that you are always wrong. Bill Cosby only gets away with it as much as he has (and he's been criticized heavily for it none the less) because he's Black and the same culture can't go after him politically the way they could a guy from another race who brings up uncomfortable issues.

A better example would be recent situations with immigrants in places like Texas and California. Please not I am not talking about ILLEGAL immigrants which is another issue, but rather people who have become US citizens. We have problems to the point where we have schools banning kids from wearing the American flag, or putting it on a vehicle like a bike that they bring to school, due to fear of violence and retaliation from immigrants, especially during holidays like Cinca De Mayo (I've posted links all over The Escapist, there have been multiple incidents, not one isolated case). Basically a situation where these people have become Americans, but really just want the benefits and otherwise to be Mexicans (or in cases of other incidents around the country, whatever land they came from), these are people getting violent and making threats over the symbol of what is functionally their own country. Yes it is bigoted to single out immigrants for things like this and point out that something needs to be done, and preacing tolerance of such behavior IS political correctness.

Another big issue is things like property rights. In the USA we have tons of laws in place that are used to prevent white people (the majority) from refusing to sell property to minorities, and "whitewash" certain areas so to speak (not that it's anything like the problem it was decades ago when these laws were created). On the other hand we have issue with various minorities like Chinese, Jews, Cubans, and others who refuse to sell property outside of their ethnic group when put on the market. For all intents and purpose your dealing with a major problem of laws with a dual standard, yet there are people who defend this based on the fact that it's minorities and it would be bigoted to single these problems out to be addressed. The very fact that we have "districts" in cities like "China Town", "Little Havana", and similar things represent the problem. A building in Chinatown goes up on the market, and some white guy/company gives the best offer, and they decide to go with a lesser offer because the guys making it are Chinese, that's an issue. Ditto for situations when it's minorities who won't rent apartments or lease space to people who aren't of the appropriate ethnicity.

Finally, I think it's going waaaay off the deepend when it's being argued that taking long-established characters and changing their ethnicity to make it "more diverse" isn't political correctness. That's politically correct boneheadedness at it's absolute worst.

My long standing arguement is that due to the way society has been for a long time there aren't a whole lot of minority characters in things like comics. Of course then again by being "minorities" you don't expect there to be a lot of them in proportion to whites in the US because there are simply a lot more white guys. The problem as it exists is something to be addressed by minorities getting into things like writing and drawing comic books. It's a very competitive business of course, and this entails you having to see genuine interest within minority groups to see it done with hundreds of people dedicating their lives to it and failing for every one that actually succeeds. You need to see a quality product by the same standards, not someone handing off a contract to a black creator beause he's black. Also like anything else they have to deal with appealing to the market as a whole, a black character with a "'tude" that villifies the white majority (even if just through dialogue) like the world is still stuck in the 1930s is of course not going to work for large scale release for example.

To put things into perspective Asians broke into comics in a big way, this happened because of a lot of interest, and massive amounts of persistance. Right now you see both Manga and Western comics in a sort of symbotic relationship and inspiring each other heavily, and a rising number of asian themed super heroes in general. Heck, we've even got The Japanese doing a version of Western super heroes like "The X-men".

The problem is that while it's bigoted, a lot of the minorities that usually get involved in politically correct arguements, are demanding to see instant success and representation in things, without having to put in any real work or effort over the long term. The "get rich or die trying" attitude so to speak.

I'll say flat out bigotry is what society needs more of right now, people who are willing to flat out ignore political correctness and what's nice, focus on problems like a laser, and work to correct them even if it involves being mean. Honestly I think political correctness perpetuates problems and actually does more damage to the people it sets out to protect than it helps them... largely because it tells them that things that aren't okay are just fine.

Oh and Bob (to address you directly again, if you even read the stuff I write) for the record, those of us who take the other side of these arguements are not generally speaking cowards hiding behind the term "politically incorrect". I'm quite up front about what I think even when I use the term, and I generally deal with the crap I get for it. I might be "mean" but I believe it's for the greater good, not out of some sense of superiority, or the sake of meaness for the sake of meaness. To be entirely honest my "problem" is that I think a lot of the groups that I criticize can do a lot better, they can meet the same standards set by the majority, humans are humans. People who think that these groups need to be protected ultimatly have attitudes that come down to those people somehow being unable to do better, which is why the protection is nessicary. On most levels that's actually far more bigoted than I am, and an even worse kind of sugar-coated racism than what the politically correct hope to decry.

Also as far as "Resident Evil 5" goes, the game was fairly accurate, and I see no real reason why a third world hellhole shouldn't be portrayed as a third world hellhole simply to be nice. If people don't like how that imagery is, then strive to change it. It also comes down to the counter-issue of "why is everything set in the USA". Set a game in the third world trying to protect helpless people from bio-terrorism, and oops all of a sudden it's racist because those people are portrayed as victims who need the help.

Also, I for one can't see why the holy heck Sheeva walking around in sexed up tribal garb or a "Jill Of The Jungle" outfit is supposed to be racist or polically incorrect. It's no differant than white guys dressing up like sexed up vikings or Romans (TOGA PARTY!!!). Granted it's impractical for the setting, but that's the way a lot of alternate costumes are (which is why they are alternate costumes), we have games where the protaganist can do things like run around dressed in a chicken suit in an otherwise fairly serious game as an "unlockable". My attitude about "Resident Evi 5" is that it was just the PC crowd trying to grab a headline, and that's not likely to change. The *only* thing that made it differant from what legions of other games has done is the setting. Set the game in eastern Europe and give the female character a sexy jester costume, or a dominatrix outfit and nobody is going to bat an eye.

Dude, have you ever considered applying to be a video columnist at the Escapist? Your education (formal or otherwise) is pretty bloody impressive, seriously this is some serious brain flexing going on here.

I reckon you could make some waves here, and I'd love to see them.


OT: Political Correctness like a lot of things had a noble goal that spiraled into a fiery tailspin of mediocrity and stupidity. I can understand a black man in America feeling put out if he walks down the street and some waste of space calls him a ******. That shit be whack yo.

On the other hand, discounting my opinion cos I'm a member of the whitey brigade is pretty piss poor too. Its like a friend of mine, he gets called racist all the time, when what he actually is, is a culturalist (his own word). He despises (and so do I) all the bullshit hangups that migrants bring with them from the old country. I've got no time for it, nor does my family. In Australia, here's a tip, you aren't going to be killed for being Muslim or Hindu, you're just gonna be different but you're still an Australian.

I'm also curious: how many people are genuinely racist, and how many are just total bastards who capitalize on easy insults?