The Big Picture: Enough With The Batman Already!

[Jennacide]

I personally had be wondering why the hell they were debating about what to do with Batman, when the one of the trio they need to focus on getting right is Wonder Woman. Nothing in media outside the comics with her name on it has been successful, which is a friggin Greek tragedy. (See what I did there?)

They need to get Diana right without screwing things up, especially since as a little girl I was always a huge fan. Well, up until they started to lean too heavy on the sex during the late 90's after the advent of Gen 13's Fairchild. Oh, and WB, if you do decide to focus on one or two "lesser" known DC characters, don't go the easy route and pick Powergirl. For the love of God don't pick Powergirl. I like her, she's amusing, but I know what Hollywood will do with her.

 

[CAPTCHA]

When I think of Batman the word 'urban' comes to mind. That sort of style has been pretty big with the 'yoof' who are the main demographic for this sort of thing. People might think that comics are the domain of the nerd, but the truth is that's not been the case for some time. Your regular batman watcher plays CoD, listens to to their iphone on the back of the bus and calls each other bumbaclot ironicly. They like being the bad boy, they like the power of the individual, they like their technology and toys and they are angry. They like batman.

Now, when I think Superman the word 'metropolitan' comes to mind. Superman's world is hopeful, profesional, moral. It promotes monogomy and building a better world. It's traditional but also out of touch. Like it or not, our world is much more like Gotham than Metropolis and contains far more young angry Bruce Waynes than successful Clark Kents.

Spoiler: batman

Spoiler: superman

So who is this new Superman film going to be made for? Are they going to try and throw in some urban flavor so that it isn't alien to the masses. I noticed from the trailer that superman's suit is more a silver-grey then vivid blue. What other ways are they going to appropriate the current climate into superman's character?

 

[chikusho]

I think a major pull with The Batman is that noone knows what he's capable of or what he's going to do next.
While most super heroes tend to solve their confrontations and conflicts by using their powers (PUNCHING!!!), Batman needs to rise to the occasion every single time and ruthlessly exploit whatever weakness he can find. While also doing quite a lot of punching.
I agree that his place in the Justice League is greatly exaggerated (bullshit plot armor, as someone said previously), but his presence in the Justice League is key.
Doesn't really matter though, I think most DC characters are pretty lame.

 

[Callate]

I don't want to see bad Batman. I don't want to see Batman and Robin Batman; I don't want to see "Batman as reliable and therefore inevitable cash cow." I had mixed reactions to the last of the Nolan Batmans, though ultimately I thought it was reasonably enjoyable (so long as you didn't think about it too hard); still, I'm glad that it ended, rather than stringing along until everyone who was working on it was completely sick of it.

But a lot of the analysis of Batman that desires to be critical of the character seems to run kind of shallow. Okay, yeah, arguably a shallow character, but that's beside the point. He can be played as incongruously mortal comrade to a roster of demigods, or as mentally unhinged avenger who may be as sick as the people he hunts, or the guy who only gets to play in these leagues because he's rich, but that's particular aspects that different writers and directors choose to emphasize. There have been interesting stories written about Batman that play up entirely different ones.

If I'm concerned about more Batman, it's not because of the Batman character, but because of the potential for a crummy rush job in making a Batman presence someone feels is obligatory. I refuse to say out of hand "no more Batman"; there could be someone out there who could make a new Batman that would be fantastic, and I'd be daft to suggest I'd rather see a bad Wonder Woman or Flash or Green Lantern story than a good Batman story. If making a good Batman takes another five or six years, maybe that's for the best. But if an awesome screenplay showed up on someone's desk that happened to be especially well suited to tie into a Justice League franchise?... Well, why not?

 

[Psykoma]

The only person I could see playing the joker without being like 'overshadowed' by ledger (at least in my mind) is Mark Hamill.

 

[Kekkonen1]

Noooooo we can never get enough Batman! Personally I think that as long as the games (Arkham-games) and the movies (Nolan triology) continues to be of so high standard, by all means please continue making them. Its when the movies and/or games go into Schumacher and bat-nipples territory that we might need a break, but only from the bad Bat-movies.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I've been having this argument with friends for a while now. The crus of their argument is "How do you make a Batman movie that fits in well with the more, for lack of a better term "comic booky" concepts of the JLA without suffering thematic whiplash coming off of Nolan's run?

My argument is pretty much the same that was given here. You don't need a new Batman movie, at least not right away.
You don't need to copy the Avengers formula to...copy the Avengers formula. By which I mean each character doesn't need their own film series before jumping into the JLA.

You can mention Bruce Wayne in Man of Steel as the chief business rival of Lex Luthor or mention that Wayne Industries just acquired the Daily Planet. If you want to do the Fighter Pilot meets the Amazons story for Wonder Woman do a little jiggery pokery and viola! Steve Trevor is a WayneTech test pilot.

What I'm getting at here is that you can have Batman all over the place in your JLA setup films without having to retrofit him into the actual story.

 

[NathanS]

I

I'm a bit fed up of people hating on Batman in this way. I'm fine with folk not liking him, that's fine! Fine! It's not liking him because he's overexposed or because he has no superpowers or because his main thing is thinking ahead that bothers me. Batman is kind of a genius. Not even kind of. He IS a genius. He has plans with how to deal with every super being known to man, he's an expert fighter- ah, you know the rest.

Imagine a world were Batman barely had any exposure, and say it was Superman who was all over the place and every other Superman related thing took potshots at how much better Superman is then Batman. Welcome to how fans of any DC hero NOT Batman has been living in SINCE THE 90's.

Batman does not need to be the ONLY hero on display form the DCU and he sure don't need to be better then every other DC hero and villains all put together.

THAT'S what people are sick of.

 

[AsurasEyes]

1) I actually agree with Bob that maybe it is time to put Batman away for awhile and lets try making GOOD (and I emphasis that word) movies for the other characters in the DC canon.

2) I disagree that Batman has nothing to bring to the table. The truth is that in many cases, Batman is capable of doing what the others heroes can't or won't do. Make no mistake, in that little list of super humans Bob rattled off, none of them are a half-decent detective and I wouldn't trust any of them to do any kind of real infiltration. Sorry Bob, but just because you're tired of him doesn't mean he isn't one of the most important parts of the Justice League for more then just "being Batman".

Reason I dislike Batman is that he's a selfish prick who refuses to kill to appease his own little delusion of morality. He's cool, yes, but we need less of him.

And here's the thing: DC doesn't make good heroes. They do, however, make the greatest villains in history.

 

[ThePS1Fan]

His power is being the goddamn Batman.

He's Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sue incarnate.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I

I'm a bit fed up of people hating on Batman in this way. I'm fine with folk not liking him, that's fine! Fine! It's not liking him because he's overexposed or because he has no superpowers or because his main thing is thinking ahead that bothers me. Batman is kind of a genius. Not even kind of. He IS a genius. He has plans with how to deal with every super being known to man, he's an expert fighter- ah, you know the rest.

Imagine a world were Batman barely had any exposure, and say it was Superman who was all over the place and every other Superman related thing took potshots at how much better Superman is then Batman. Welcome to how fans of any DC hero NOT Batman has been living in SINCE THE 90's.

Batman does not need to be the ONLY hero on display form the DCU and he sure don't need to be better then every other DC hero and villains all put together.

THAT'S what people are sick of.

I... Kind of already said I think that they need more exposure. Pretty sure it was at the end of the post you quoted. In fact, I said I'd rather see a Flash movie over a Justice League one with Batman. I like Flash as much as Batsy.

 

[SD-Fiend]

Spoiler

I was trying to think about what villain WB could bring to the table that could be powerful enough to take on the entire Justice League... and the only thing I came up with is Darkseid, And Batman dealing with Darkseid would be like nipples on a Batsuit-unnecessary, as well as outclassed.

Quick question: Do you know who Batman is? Due to writers compensating for putting the guy in a batsuit on a team with demigods, Batman has become the most feared and ruthless hero of DC's entire roster. His power is being the goddamn Batman.

And that's why I'm so glad that people are starting to call Batman out on his ridiculousness. The 'Iron Will' Schtick might as well just be called a super power because of how it just bends the fabric of reality now. He won't fail because he won't allow it. His back won't break from being ***** slapped through a really thick stone pillar because is presence of mind is stronger than physics?

And yet, supposedly Batman never takes a life. Yet people are always scared that he will. I mean, people call Superman out that he'll never do anything to them more serious than a pummeling. Then they'll cower to Batman... who will never do anything serious than a pummeling.

Batman has the best power of them all. He has the Authors and the Fans behind him. So he will never lose. He can will his body to maintain it's peak muscle efficiency even though I can't remember the last time he worked out (and as a personal trainer, that always bugged the hell out of me), he can always somehow move just a bit faster than people who can move at light speed to take out just the thing that he prepared ahead of time in case this happened... He's Mary Sue, the character. I love the games, I love the comics when he's in Gotham and he isn't dealing with Beyond Gods, but when he's out of Gotham, he gets ridiculous.

Captcha: try the Booyah way!

Fuck right, you creepy sentient programming! What about Cyborg?! BOOYAH!!

Reminded me of this:
And the other thing that bothers me is how impossible being "always prepared" is or how people act like batman is the only "thinking hero" who doesn't solve problems through punching.

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

WB needs to Power Girl the shit out of the box office!

Lol, just kidding about that. Seriously, I think that WB should try to get a better go at the Green Lantern Corps. I always figured that the Justice League does not work well by itself without Superman, the goddamn Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and, I guess, Aquaman. They could probably replace Aquaman with Congo Bill and it wouldn't make any difference. With one not so good Green Lantern movie out, WB should try to make a better sequel with someone like, I don't know, Geoff (freakin'!) Johns as head writer. Maybe also skip over Hal Jordan and go straight to Guy Gardener or Kyle Rayner.

Either way, WB should get to fixin' Green Lantern and maybe some good Martian Manhunter before Marvel finds a way to get X-Men from Fox and make Avengers vs. X-Men.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Outside of the proposed Justice League movie itself, I definitely don't want to see any more Batman for a while.

I'd love another Batman movie tomorrow. Seriously, there are so many interpretations of the character they could do one tomorrow very different from Nolan's vision and we'd still have something fresh.

My hope is we see the Batman and the world of Arkham City brought to the big screen.

I agree with Bob in that, they're going to have to work hard to make Bruce Wayne relevant with alien Jesuses around and not seem silly.

My bet: they can do it. Bring it on!

Don't get me wrong: I'm perfectly aware of how much room there is to do things with the Batman character (personally, I'd like something with a bit more color and less rubber armor next time around; maybe with a touch of pulp adventure to it or even a straight-up detective story) and his world, but I feel ready to take a break from him for awhile. Between all the movies and games and comics and TV shows, there's just so much Batman around that I'm just burned out on his whole world at the moment.

Also, past experience has given me a significantly less optimistic view of how well made the Justice League film, if it ever materializes, will actually be.

 

[cerebus23]

i do not want to see anymore whiny emo batman that cannot detect that his ceo is his enemies daughter, nm why she drags it out when she any number of opportunities to outright kill him.

nor do i want anymore of the nolan oh i will quit being batman after like 2 years because i am the gdamn batman.

far as plot armor batman goes he was wearing one of darkseeds troopers armor, and he is not a average human he is the ultimate specmine of human potential yadda yadda, i mean the guy can leap like 12 feet into the air in the comic wo breaking a hamstring. and he is generally built like a steroid junky.

also might point out that darkseed was holding back with batman clearly, if he had hit him with his full power he would have squished batman like a bug, ds is a god. batman had changed his codes and had the key to disarm them so his entire planet would not be burnt to a molten ball, even tho that would not have killed ds, it would have killed a ton of his minions.

this is also the encounter that convinces DS that he needs batman for his ultimate army. which plays out in final crisis/batman rip.

we do not need to know where batman came form or that his parents were shot we know who the man is that i can agree with, maybe it is time they look to make good batman stories rather than telling the same ones over and over and tinkering with the details.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Time to make a Nightwing movie SO THAT WE CAN PUT BATMAN IN IT!

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

Anyone remember the Justice League: Unlimited episode "Epilogue"?

The world will always need a Batman.

 

[viranimus]

Yeah, Ill take a pass on the opinion of someone who swooned over captain America and thought the Avengers film wasnt the boring repetitive rip off of Transformers that it was.