The Big Picture: Holy Spoilers Batman!

[God of Path]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

I never really read comics, and I never watched the batman TV show, so I don't know anything at all to with the batman universe. And it was glaringly obvious to me. I didn't know she was Talia, but except that small (and rather insignificant detail), her betrayal was written heavy-handed throughout the first two acts. She was the only person every happening in the movie benefited. I saw it when she became the head of the board in act 1.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Wait there are five diffrent robins? What happened to them. One goes off to be Nightwing, I think one dies but what about the rest? Can someone explain this to me.

Robin 1 is Dick Grayson who grows up to be Nightwing then Batman for a bit
Robin 2 is Jason Todd who died, but was brought back and became the Red Hood
Robin 3 is Tim Drake who I think upgraded to Nightwing when the old Nightwing (the first Robin) started being Batman
Robin 4 is Stephanie Brown, I believe, the hero formerly known as Spoiler. I don't know much about her except she supposedly died but turned out not to be (there seems to be a pattern developing here)
Robin 5 is Damien Wayne, the one talked about in the video.

I think thats accurate


EDIT: D'ooooh, ninja'd on both counts

Close. Although Robin 3, Tim Drake became "Red Robin", not Nightwing. (Dick Grayson is shown as Red Robin in the Kingdom Come series as Tim Drake had not yet been created when it was written. Tim Drake shifted from Robin to a darker more adult Red Robin when Batman was killed, Nightwing became Batman and Daimien Wayne showed up.)

Robin 4, Stephanie Brown became Batgirl 4 for awhile. At least up until DC's latest total retcon reboot of their universe.

There is also the speculative future "Robin 6", Carrie Kelly, from Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns series. (It is also worth noting that it is implied in Miller's series that what set off Batman's 10 year retirement was the death of Robin 2, Jason Todd at the hands of the Joker. Oddly prophetic as it was published several years before the characters death by telephone poll ala American Idol.)

Another possible alternate future Robin was the character "Max" from the Batman Beyond series. Although she never took on the name or a costume.

Well done on your Batmanology! Last we saw of Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, she was undercover for Batman, Inc. at a British girl's school that was really a training ground for assassins (the bad kind) and she and Batman (Bruce, not Richard) broke it up and tore it down. Hasn't been seen since the relaunch, and I hope she wasn't erased from existence, just because Barbara Gordon's legs work again and she's Batgirl. As for Max, i remember this exchange in the episode she told Terry she knows he's Batman:

MAx: "But call me Robin, and I'll bust your secret wide open!"
Terry:"You got it ... Alfred."
Max: "Huh? Wait, who's Alfred?"
Always a knee-slapper.

Starfire and Robin had a kid? Awesome. She looks like Blackfire from the show...Is Blackfire canon in the comics?

In the comics Blackfire is or was Starfires older sister. She was a long time major villain in the Teen Titans books. They also had a younger brother who was one of the Omega Men. I'm not sure if any of them survived the DC new 52.

Blackfire's back, and she appears to be the big bad in the current Starfire-centric arc of Red Hood and the Outlaws.

 

[Tumedus]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

I have never been a big DC comics fan. Almost all of my knowledge of batman comes from video games, wikipedia, and stuff like this.

I saw the twist coming a mile away.

Perhaps my limited knowledge of the universe was an asset, but once you realize that she has to be a bad guy (noticable very early) there are seemingly very few choices for who she could actually be. And even if you hadn't figured it out by the time they sleep together, at the point where its revealed that the enemy is the child of Ra's, there really is no reason not to see it.

 

[daxterx2005]

So bob thinks this new Robin will get brought into the comic universe?

 

[Caffeine_Bombed]

John Blake...rhymes with Tim Drake?
Duh duh duuuuuuuh!

 

[GiantRaven]

Soooooooooo fed up of this '90s comics sucked' bullcrap. Why? Because Vertigo.

Also, not all hero replacements were extreme and edgy. For example - Connor Hawke, the second Green Arrow and devout Buddhist vegetarian (and all-round kickass character).

 

[Willowleaf]

Referring to Damian as the fifth Robin, not the fourth = +10 Moviebob points.

 

[The Last Melon]

Man, Bob, that was some impressive speed. Practically Zero Punctuation level.

 

[V8 Ninja]

Yeah, while watching Rises I noticed that Christopher Nolan seems to have embraced the bizarre impossibilities of comic books. At least six times during the two-hour-plus movie I really had to question the reality the flick was trying to propose to me. Spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler: Here are the few moments that I can think of off of my head

- Bane's base of operations just happens to be under Wayne Industries?

- Batman gets his own futuristic hovercraft?

- How does hanging from a rope for several months help fix a broken back?

- How does Bruce Wayne actually get back to Gotham? That entire plot-point is completely ignored.

Also, there were a few awkward instant night-to-day and day-to-night transitions.

 

[Phase_9]

At first I felt smart for knowing everything that was in this episode. Then I realized that this episode had no content for fanboys like me. So why wasn't I pissed?

Because this episode is designed to inform people who aren't obsessive-compulsive like me AND to make fanboys like me feel smart. And fanboys love it when you validate their obsessiveness.

Clever, Mr. Bob. Very clever.

 

[Gunnyboy]

Yeah, while watching Rises I noticed that Christopher Nolan seems to have embraced the bizarre impossibilities of comic books. At least six times during the two-hour-plus movie I really had to question the reality the flick was trying to propose to me. Spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler: Here are the few moments that I can think of off of my head

- Bane's base of operations just happens to be under Wayne Industries?

- Batman gets his own futuristic hovercraft?

- How does hanging from a rope for several months help fix a broken back?

- How does Bruce Wayne actually get back to Gotham? That entire plot-point is completely ignored.

Also, there were a few awkward instant night-to-day and day-to-night transitions.

As opposed to a microwave emitter that evaporates water, so it releases a gas, that makes people hallucinate their biggest fears?

Or a school bus perfectly timed to break through a bank wall, and leave the scene undamaged?


Nolan's movies have always had these things in there, they are just presented in a more plausible, not realistic, scenario.

 

[4173]

Batman was never dead in Final Crisis...

 

[V8 Ninja]

Yeah, while watching Rises I noticed that Christopher Nolan seems to have embraced the bizarre impossibilities of comic books. At least six times during the two-hour-plus movie I really had to question the reality the flick was trying to propose to me. Spoilers ahoy!

Spoiler: Here are the few moments that I can think of off of my head

- Bane's base of operations just happens to be under Wayne Industries?

- Batman gets his own futuristic hovercraft?

- How does hanging from a rope for several months help fix a broken back?

- How does Bruce Wayne actually get back to Gotham? That entire plot-point is completely ignored.

Also, there were a few awkward instant night-to-day and day-to-night transitions.

As opposed to a microwave emitter that evaporates water, so it releases a gas, that makes people hallucinate their biggest fears?

Or a school bus perfectly timed to break through a bank wall, and leave the scene undamaged?

Nolan's movies have always had these things in there, they are just presented in a more plausible, not realistic, scenario.

True, but the stuff in Rises was much more obvious to notice, especially after how well-woven The Dark Knight was. And also, I'm not quite sure what you are referencing with your first example.

 

[CronoT]

I dunno about one thing, Bob. Just because YOU figured out that Miranda was Talia really early on, doesn't mean that EVERYONE did.

Me, and everyone I know who saw the movie (even people who are just as big of bat-fans as I) didn't see the twist coming. Granted, as soon as it happened, a big "oh, duh" entered my brain, and everything made perfect sense, but I think assuming that it was really THAT obvious is a bit much.

Am I alone here? Was the twist really THAT obvious?

When I went to go see the movie, and a little less than halfway through when Bruce Wayne and 'Not-Talia' Miranda got to knocking boots, that sealed it for me. All the hints were there. Ra's Al Ghoul's supposed immortality, Bruce assuming Bane was Ghoul's son, Bruce letting down his barriers and getting close with a woman, Bruce and Lucius saying that Bane would never give the detonator to a normal citizen, Bane saying he's not the leader of the League of Shadows, on and on it goes.

However, the obvious 'twist ending' did lead me to some pleasant reminiscing about the Batman Beyond episode with Talia and Ra's, and Ra's-Talia's plan to swap bodies with Bruce, make him much younger, and then claim he was the lost heir of Talia and Bruce.

Also about Robin; Tim Drake was teased in the first movie, and the back story of Robin in this movie is the same as the Robin in the Arkham City game.

The Dark Knight Rises is a study in how NOT to pace a movie. The first 30 minutes is a hurried exposition dump, with lots of false flags and forced set up; the next 45 minutes is a slow build to an anti-climax; the following 50 minutes or so slows WAY the **** down to force a perspective of an extended time passing; and the last 20-25 minutes is an extended climax resulting in TWO twist endings, one of which had half the audience going "Duh...", with the other half saying "The **** just happened...?". The other twist ending was a pay-off for a throwaway concept/scene in the first half of the movie, with Alfred acting SO COMPLETELY out of character it was like "Batman & Robin" Alfred all over again.

The Dark Knight Rises isn't a bad movie, but it just has too many flaws to keep it from being a classic movie.

 

[Flunk]

I had no idea who Talia Al-Gual was and even I figured out that Miranda was working with Bain on some grand scheme very early in. The way she insinuates herself into Bruce's life is just too convenient and obvious.

The vast majority of us people who saw this movie don't know that much about Batman, we just know the big stuff so when Nolan decides to move stuff around that it's not particularly important to us. It only matters to the segment of people who do care enough about this and I'm totally convinced at this point that Hollywood doesn't care about comic book fans one bit. It's obvious by the way they constantly re-invent characters especially the Hulk. How long was that before he was re-invented 2 years?

 

[CronoT]

I had no idea who Talia Al-Gual was and even I figured out that Miranda was working with Bain on some grand scheme very early in. The way she insinuates herself into Bruce's life is just too convenient and obvious.

The vast majority of us people who saw this movie don't know that much about Batman, we just know the big stuff so when Nolan decides to move stuff around that it's not particularly important to us. It only matters to the segment of people who do care enough about this and I'm totally convinced at this point that Hollywood doesn't care about comic book fans one bit. It's obvious by the way they constantly re-invent characters especially the Hulk. How long was that before he was re-invented 2 years?

The Hulk movie was redone, because the notorious crappy movie studio The Asylum could have done a better job than Ang Lee did with The Hulk. Some parts of the 1970's TV show and TV Movies were better than Ang Lee's Hulk.

It's "One of Those Movies We Don't Talk About...", like Zardoz.

 

[jmarquiso]

Only thing I got from this vid was that Starfire and Nightwing had a kid; that I did not know.

They had a kid in Kingdom Come, which hasn't come yet.

 

[jmarquiso]

Hey -

Take a look at this trailer for "The Dark Knight Returns, Part I"

http://screenrant.com/dark-knight-returns-movie-trailer/

And tell me that doesn't remind you of the plot for the Dark Knight Rises, replacing Bane with the head of the Mutants?

There were a ton of storylines mashed into one movie - Dark Knight Returns (Bruce Wayne returns from exile to begin to fight a growing crime problem in the city, culminating in inspiring a new Robin and - well I won't tell you how it ends, but there's some similarities), Knightfall (as explained already), No Man's Land in which Gotham is completely cut off from help due to a disaster (there's a part of Dark Knight Returns that has this as well). There's even a storyline where Bane is Ra's's chosen replacement and Talia is involved with him. I LOVE what they did with Bane in this film, making him far more interesting than he's ever been before (to me, at least).

And don't forget, Batman Begins actually takes a LOT from Dennis O'Neal's run on the Batman, including training under Deckard and the first meeting with R'as. I really like how Nolan handled Ra's's immortality even then. There's a lot of Two Face comics references in Dark Knight, too. Most of the Heist/Action sequences in Dark Knight are pretty much attributable to Nolan.

 

[Solo-Wing]

Only thing I got from this vid was that Starfire and Nightwing had a kid; that I did not know.

Yeah I myself am not big on the DC universe so that was the thing that intrigued me the most since I watched a bit of Teen Titans in the past.

Also Ra's Al Ghul plays another big part in the Comics/Cartoon universes cause he used his pool thing to bring the original Robin back to life after he got killed by the Joker. Then the resurrected Robin became NightWing. Or something like that...

Eh I am sketchy on the details. Again. Not big into the DC universe.

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Hmmm...I wonder how these plot items will play out in regards to something else someone noticed.

I can't remember what it was, but I think someone here on the Escapist suggested that in one scene where we see Wayne walking around with a cane, it was a setup that leads into a possible live action version of Batman Beyond. Now...granted it's a stretch, but I can definitely see the connection.

I want Batman: Beyond. If done right, a couple of Beyond movies would be much more entertaining than regular Batman movies.

Agreed. I just wish I could remember who the guy said he wanted as an elder Bruce Wayne.

Actually...there was a plot I wanted to see in regards to 52. You know how Huntress was originally supposed to be a potential Batman/Catwoman love child? I wonder she would have related to either Bruce's son...or perhaps even Terry McGuiness?