The Big Picture: In Defense of "Booth Babes" (sort of)

[JimB]

I will not respond to responses. I will delete all in my inbox before reading because I do not feel like being called a misogynist for trying to bring some sanity and understanding to a situation.

Then I will not bother to read your post, because if the only condition under which you will engage in a conversation is if the flow of information is exclusively from you to us with no input from us allowed, then I will not grant you a greater courtesy in digesting your opinion than you will grant me.

 

[JimB]

Oh, fuck every inch of that. The idea that disagreeing with people about make-believe justifies threats to end the life of not only the person disagreeing with her but also the lives of her children is beyond entitled; it's straight up evil.

Since when has repeatedly ruining the story in games been considered make believe?

Your argument here is, "Ms. Hepler, you stand convicted of the crime of not telling a story about dragons well enough to meet my personal expectations. This is a crime for which the punishment is death, not only for you but for your children because the evil of your crime of not telling a story about dragons I like is such that we cannot risk your children inheriting the mantle of your evil."

Anyone who considers the above a statement of justice is plainly deranged.

 

[omega 616]

I don't like the idea of booth babes (yeah, I know), I also don't like lollipop chainsaw, bayonetta or dragons crown either.

I just think we need to take away some sexy from games.

I've heard all the arguments before, "it's not sexist 'cos they aren't humiliating the women", "it's not sexist 'cos it's not trying to be sexist", "it's not sexist 'cos it's taking the piss out of game design" etc. It's a woman running round in a very revealing set of clothes, that might as well just be her underwear.

I'm not saying make all women wear burkas but a little modesty wouldn't ruin the game!

While some dresses are ridiculous enough to breake immersion, WTF?

Literature: 50 shades of Grey. Mainstream megahit. Half of book are gratuitous and detailed descriptions of BDSM sessions between lover with wide age disparity.

Still Visual Arts: I can make painting (or sculpture or photo) of naked woman (or during sex act if creative enough), anatomically correct or sexually exaggerated (statue even with convenient and perfectly sized holes in anatomically correct places) and sell it on a street as "artwork" even if it is anything but.

Movies: Drive Angry. Gorry battle scene during which female stays on hero's penis.

Music: Smack my ***** up... there are far worse examples, but I can?t remember them

Games: Girl in somewhat inappropriate clothing slays tones of enemies?

Doesn't really sound the same level, does it? We'll outgrow it and understand that there are games with sex appeal and games that don't go for sex appeal. It took Hollywood 40 years to outgrow it's own "head up it's own arse" problem

I'm not much of a book or art guy but lets go with it.

You named A big popular book that is about sex, is there any others? Don't say the Kama sutra.

Art, well a lot of sculptures and paintings have the odd boob, the occasional dick but there are millions of pieces with no such thing. Just random bits of scenery, boats, portraits etc

Movies imply sex, they always have a hot passionate kiss, then waking up the next day with underwear on. Unless you're watching love and other drugs or a porno.

Games, holy fuck knuckle Batman! The it's like a nudist camp, woman only! Mass effect 2 you meet Jack who is wearing nothing but belts to cover up, how many in game shots of Ashley's ass do we need? Dragon age, Morrigan is wearing a red shredded top and bikini, the obvious suspects like Bayonetta, lollipop chainsaw (which even had an achievement to look up her skirt) and dragons crown, think of all the female characters in fighting games and loads more.

There are a handful of females who aren't rocking underwear as casual dress.

Imagine playing a game, you play as a guy who muscular as all hell, no shirt, tight speedo's so you can see the outline of his junk ... maybe a cheeky testicle popping out the side, would you play that game? You can make your guy look like that in "Loadout", you can even make him butt naked with his impressive member blurred out, so he runs around the battlefield wearing nothing but a grimace!

That game wouldn't sell at all, it would be surrounded in "omg, it's so grotesque!". Gaming is still a boys club and they market it that way, to there junk.

 

[WindKnight]

*sighs*

we really are getting a LOT of 'common sense' content lately, it's getting kinda depressing.

as Voltaire said, 'common sense isn't so common'. Just look at the Darwin Awards and What The F*** Is Wrong With You?

(It always made me smile that one particular pen and paper RPG had 'common sense' as a very expensive advantage you had to buy)

 

[generals3]

snip

Interesting point of view. Having always hidden my love for games in highschool I never faced social judgement for it so I never looked at that way. My personal distaste for the wannabe social justice league who are plaguing video games with pseudo-inclusiveness is that they are using devious tactics, which they probably fought against in other contexts (irony), to change how games are made. While this is slightly off topic being against so called "misogynistic" games is all but inclusive because they're actually lobbying against games some people like and thus exclude them. The only way to be inclusive is to create more games which don't fit said criteria. However that would actually involve efforts among consumers (pushing people to buy games fitting said "inclusiveness" criteria more to send the signal they are worth more and thus should be produced more) and i'll be damned if consumers start taking responsibility...

But anyway, it seems people are just way too quick to throw damning words like "sexism" and "misogyny" and don't want context. They don't want to be told that the gaming world isn't black and white and that there is a lot of grey because that would mean the debate requires more finesse and nuance.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yesh, if Moviebob ever read the comment to his videos, he must think he is asking for the impssibles for this one.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

People are sometimes assholes to either other, guys seem to have to suck it up...

Apparently not. This thread alone demonstrates how many guys are not willing to "suck it up" - in fact, I'd say that women are doing a much better job on that front.

You hardly see any women lashing out against males these days, but there are countless threads of males whining about feminism and "White Knighting."

 

[carnex]

I'm not much of a book or art guy but lets go with it.

You named A big popular book that is about sex, is there any others? Don't say the Kama sutra.

Art, well a lot of sculptures and paintings have the odd boob, the occasional dick but there are millions of pieces with no such thing. Just random bits of scenery, boats, portraits etc

Movies imply sex, they always have a hot passionate kiss, then waking up the next day with underwear on. Unless you're watching love and other drugs or a porno.

Games, holy fuck knuckle Batman! The it's like a nudist camp, woman only! Mass effect 2 you meet Jack who is wearing nothing but belts to cover up, how many in game shots of Ashley's ass do we need? Dragon age, Morrigan is wearing a red shredded top and bikini, the obvious suspects like Bayonetta, lollipop chainsaw (which even had an achievement to look up her skirt) and dragons crown, think of all the female characters in fighting games and loads more.

There are a handful of females who aren't rocking underwear as casual dress.

Imagine playing a game, you play as a guy who muscular as all hell, no shirt, tight speedo's so you can see the outline of his junk ... maybe a cheeky testicle popping out the side, would you play that game? You can make your guy look like that in "Loadout", you can even make him butt naked with his impressive member blurred out, so he runs around the battlefield wearing nothing but a grimace!

That game wouldn't sell at all, it would be surrounded in "omg, it's so grotesque!". Gaming is still a boys club and they market it that way, to there junk.

Any barbarian would fit your description. and I played quite a few japanese games with such males. don't care.

As a book and art guy, I can say that there is a LOT of sex and violence and over the place. The more it's targeted towards mainstream, the more sex an gore it will contain.

Nice point with Jack. Othen then her clothes were deliberately chosen to puncuate her messed up brain, you can hardly find less dressed character. Yet I can start naming pages of less apropriate dressed female characters.

I'm not saying that there arent inapropriately dressed characters. i'm saying that it's not a problem. Just label them and their games as such. Even Ripley in Aliens, ultimate badass, was eyecandy. It sells.

Get over your own views. You are free, ofcourse, to advocate against it. But it isn't bad. Hell, I see less dressed females at work.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Hoo Lordy, what can I say about this issue that won't ruffle anymore feathers?

 

[JimB]

The Escapist is now officially annoying with this inclusiveness bullshit. Jim Sterling and Bob won't shut up about it. Seriously guys, don't you have anything else to talk about? Okay, I get it! We need more women to play games, more inclusiveness, less trolling, less this or that, okay already stop shoving it down my throat.

Are you upset that you aren't being included, and have to watch things you don't agree with? You could always go to another website.

Guys seem to have to suck it up...

Apparently not. This thread alone demonstrates how many guys are not willing to "suck it up" - in fact, I'd say that women are doing a much better job on that front.

You hardly see any women lashing out against males these days, but there are countless threads of males whining about feminism and "white knighting."

Oh my god. Aardvaarkman, you are my fucking hero. I am trying to think of some adequate expression of my combination of gratitude and awe at this moment, and the best I can come up with--woefully poor example though it is--is that I would love to treat you to a steak dinner some time.

 

[nyarlathotepsama]

I guess its just a heterosexual thing? I don't understand it because as a homosexual male I don't care if there is an attractive woman at a booth or not, if I don't like the game series I'm not going to be won over even by a shirtless, short shorted Brad Pitt. No matter how much I kind of wish that was a thing.

I know a lot of girls and woman that are as or more into gaming than I am. I know a girl, as an example, who plays more games in a year than I could ever hope to, she is informed about the culture and state of various series but when she plays online games people (boys mostly) still seem to think she is nothing more than a "fake" gamer girl and I've heard the level sexist insults that get thrown around, its a total slap in the face for my entire gender. Men behaving badly makes us all seem bad by proxy.

 

[carnex]

Imagine playing a game, you play as a guy who muscular as all hell, no shirt, tight speedo's so you can see the outline of his junk ... maybe a cheeky testicle popping out the side, would you play that game? You can make your guy look like that in "Loadout", you can even make him butt naked with his impressive member blurred out, so he runs around the battlefield wearing nothing but a grimace!

That game wouldn't sell at all, it would be surrounded in "omg, it's so grotesque!". Gaming is still a boys club and they market it that way, to there junk.

Oh HELL YES I HAVE!!

It's a D&D game but set in the outer plane of Lust where love is literally in the air, the landscape are rolling hills of giant breasts and huge cocks stand erect in forests. You have to gain many sexual skills in order to combat the various horny obstacles that stand in your way.

Those that have the balls to play this game with the main intended character, a true manly man the likes of He-Man himself, will be in for the ride of their lives and an experience unlike any other game ever made.

It would be GLORIOUS!!!!!

Or you can play one of Cho Aniki games.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I am trying to think of some adequate expression of my combination of gratitude and awe at this moment, and the best I can come up with--woefully poor example though it is--is that I would love to treat you to a steak dinner some time.

I do enjoy a good steak.

 

[omega 616]

Any barbarian would fit your description. and I played quite a few japanese games with such males. don't care.

As a book and art guy, I can say that there is a LOT of sex and violence and over the place. The more it's targeted towards mainstream, the more sex an gore it will contain.

Nice point with Jack. Othen then her clothes were deliberately chosen to puncuate her messed up brain, you can hardly find less dressed character. Yet I can start naming pages of less apropriate dressed female characters.

I'm not saying that there arent inapropriately dressed characters. i'm saying that it's not a problem. Just label them and their games as such. Even Ripley in Aliens, ultimate badass, was eyecandy. It sells.

Get over your own views. You are free, of course, to advocate against it. But isn't bad. Hell, I see less dressed females at work.

Which is my problem with it, I want to look at a woman and just see a woman, not she is there as eye candy. That made no sense but I don't know how else to put it, I want her to be a part of the plot and not just there to make me buy the game or think "I'd tap that!".

If I'm playing mass effect I want Jack to run out of the place wearing bright orange overalls, like prisoners do 'cos that is what she is! When she is on the ship give her the alternate costume, the one with the leather jacket. Morrigan in dragon age would have looked so much better by just putting a black top under that red thing but no, they went with tits out.

I'm not just like this with games, I hate listening to locker room talk ... my supervisor is always saying shit like "it's a fine end" or "that is fit", he has just objectified her so much that she is no longer a person or has a gender, she is an "it or that". I would just love to say "she is a woman and she is more than what you see".

 

[LordLundar]

Oh, fuck every inch of that. The idea that disagreeing with people about make-believe justifies threats to end the life of not only the person disagreeing with her but also the lives of her children is beyond entitled; it's straight up evil.

Since when has repeatedly ruining the story in games been considered make believe?

Since when has Hepler been repeatedly ruining the story in games? I'm not asking a rhetorical question here; I seriously want to know what, exactly, she wrote that everyone finds so damn horrible. Did you not like Orzammar and the Anvil of the Void from Origins? Or was it the several characters and the Legacy DLC from 2 that inspired this immense hatred?

Don't waste your time. uanime5 has been presented with facts disputing his claims before. He disregards them because they run contrary with what he thinks happened.