The Big Picture: Magneto Was Right
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Well Bob, you are as petty as they come.
Bullies don't pick on nerds because they feel they are superior, they pick on them because they are physically weak and more importantly... SOCIALLY AWKWARD. To put it bluntly, if you were capable of striking out a conversation with anybody in your class and had a likeable way of being from the onset, you probably wouldn't even be looked at as a target unless you made a big enemy of somebody you should not have. I have been bullied myself and the reason wasn't because I was smart, it was because I sucked at sports and was a whinny snot. In my later years I was bullied still, but I didn't even have the "smart" excuse since there were smarter people in my class that had actual social skills worth a damn and were respected and admired in the class.
To put it bluntly, yes, bullying sucks, but don't feed your own power fantasy, because it certainly ain't based on anything realistic.
Bullies don't pick on nerds because they feel they are superior, they pick on them because they are physically weak and more importantly... SOCIALLY AWKWARD. To put it bluntly, if you were capable of striking out a conversation with anybody in your class and had a likeable way of being from the onset, you probably wouldn't even be looked at as a target unless you made a big enemy of somebody you should not have. I have been bullied myself and the reason wasn't because I was smart, it was because I sucked at sports and was a whinny snot. In my later years I was bullied still, but I didn't even have the "smart" excuse since there were smarter people in my class that had actual social skills worth a damn and were respected and admired in the class.
To put it bluntly, yes, bullying sucks, but don't feed your own power fantasy, because it certainly ain't based on anything realistic.
Surely someone who is better than everyone else and wants to prove it would help the people below him/her. That way they show that not only does it show that they are better than the others and know it, but that they are willing to raise (and carry) those who are lesser to a higher level.
But I can see the arguement for joining magneto... I guess thats the point of a truely debatable issue. You can see both points, one good and one bad, the bad option is really tempting (and generally has several leather clad hot women) but restraining yourself from going down the bad path is the true test of being a better person. If you take the bad option, you become a lesser person because you give in to your own base instincts, refusing the easy way shows that you are a better creature because your willing to go up against the hard work to get what you want and what is generally the better solution.
But I can see the arguement for joining magneto... I guess thats the point of a truely debatable issue. You can see both points, one good and one bad, the bad option is really tempting (and generally has several leather clad hot women) but restraining yourself from going down the bad path is the true test of being a better person. If you take the bad option, you become a lesser person because you give in to your own base instincts, refusing the easy way shows that you are a better creature because your willing to go up against the hard work to get what you want and what is generally the better solution.
oh right. sorry I don't want to make this some sort of nationalistic, my country is better than yours bullshit. i thought it would go some way to explain why you think the way you do. even growing up in italy i think their view on this subject might be parallel with the us (talk about your generalisations) because the us has a very individualistic view of how things work; if good things happen to you you deserve it if bad things happen to you you deserve it. but this is going off topic.LogicNProportion said:
to say that all of this boils down to complacency i think oversimplifies the whole situation. bullies target people because they are weaker than them, but it doesn't have to be physical weakness. bullies also target those who are mentally weaker than them e.g. those with autism. to say that all they have to do is rise above it does not only them but any victim of bullying a severe disservice.
I don't think I was every properly bullied, just maybe picked on here and there but thenagen that was early high school and who doesn't succomb to that? Just adolescent play which I wasn't all that bothered by. One time I may have been 'bullied' was being repeatedly called 'James May' because apparently I look like him. But it's fine now, he doesn't do it anymore and he's part of the scum of society anyway. It didn't really affect me then apart from getting sick of it here and there but meh, life goes on.
I personally dislike the mainstream society because it's just not stuff I think explores anything, or atleast not anything I'm personally interested in. My Metal music explores darker subjects and poilitical and religious comments, my stoic philosophical viewpoints put life into context, my MMORPG's ... well they're just fun.
About the X-Men thing, I'm not sure, I'd probably do what I personally felt was right and not be completely tied to one side.
About nerds (me being one) thinking they're superior than people who bullied them because of some psychological need to put it into perspective, I think maybe that's true. But there's alot of evidence for me personally to consider myself better than that kid who called me 'James May' alot; I'm more intelligent, I'm better off socially, I'm much more handsome (XD) and I'm not hated by everyone else who I come into contact with outside of a few people.
Maybe that's me psychologically putting his behaviour into context, maybe I'm correct, but the more we dwell on the past, the further the present and the future slip away.
I personally dislike the mainstream society because it's just not stuff I think explores anything, or atleast not anything I'm personally interested in. My Metal music explores darker subjects and poilitical and religious comments, my stoic philosophical viewpoints put life into context, my MMORPG's ... well they're just fun.
About the X-Men thing, I'm not sure, I'd probably do what I personally felt was right and not be completely tied to one side.
About nerds (me being one) thinking they're superior than people who bullied them because of some psychological need to put it into perspective, I think maybe that's true. But there's alot of evidence for me personally to consider myself better than that kid who called me 'James May' alot; I'm more intelligent, I'm better off socially, I'm much more handsome (XD) and I'm not hated by everyone else who I come into contact with outside of a few people.
Maybe that's me psychologically putting his behaviour into context, maybe I'm correct, but the more we dwell on the past, the further the present and the future slip away.
Ten giants on the on the court, and only nine if Steve Nash happens to be playing.Lazzi said:
I agree with what you're saying about Bill Gates, but I do think there is more to Jordan than just his skill. Lot's of athletes are great at their sports and may be as rich, but not necessarily as famous as Jordan or as well received as Jordan. Jordan worked incredibly hard to get to where he was. He didn't invent something integral to society, but he did reinforce the importance of perseverance, which is also important to society.
back on the bullying thing, I have three reasons why bullies do what they do from both being on the giving and receiving end. First it is easy, especially if people are unwilling or somehow unable to fight back. Second it is funny, you need very little to provoke people and from that point on the reaction from the victim starts saying some really despite stuff like how they will make you pay for what you have done and start saying some poorly worded insult. The third thing is the sense of power that it gives bullies, seeing someone stand there before you with a look of both terror and rage as you torment them, knowing that you have so much power over them is a feeling that is both exhilarating and terrifying.
Women aren't free from their gender role. Yeah they've gotten a lot of freedom to move into traditionally male areas but Women and girls are still expected to be thin and attractive among other things. I mean this even more so than men. There is much more pressure on women to fit certain standards when it comes to obesity and attractiveness. Also have you seen what girls can do to each other? They can be flat out CRUEL, especially if they perceive the girl to be masculine in some way. Just like men hold other men to certain standards, women will hold other women to other different standards.MasochisticMuse said:
I just wanted to polish the other side of that coin if you know what i mean. You know, to clarify that women get bullied too for the same general reasons and that are not immune to it as you (probably inadvertently) implied.
This line of thought is horrible and i mst say im suprised at Bob. If you had power you would use it for revenge is that really how you think? Because im pretty sure thats identical line of thought to what Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were thinking on april 20 1999.
team magneto team magneto team magneto
I was only slightly bullied in school, but magneto isn't really evil he has the same goals as the x-men, he just doesn't want to do things the nice way.
I was only slightly bullied in school, but magneto isn't really evil he has the same goals as the x-men, he just doesn't want to do things the nice way.
I don't know where I'd be.
I think if for being different I was ostracised I would probably end up neutral to evil on a DnD character sheet (magneto being chaotic evil and charles xavier being good as opposed to lawful good which are the weird corporation in "heroes"). This would probably be accounted for by my belief that there are still things more worth fighting for than money and my understandably jaded view of the world.
Also as a child you aren't bullied because you are different its because when you are an adolescent you gain joyful emotion from the feeling of power. one of the greatest moments of your life is the empowering moment when you first leave home. Bullying is all about power.
the reason they pick on certain individuals is because they see that individual as a vulnerable individual. the kid who sits on his own is often a popular choice because he doesn't have much in the way of defence. no-one has ever seen a whole group of goths all bullied by one guy or the nerd's table interrupted by no less than the number of nerds present minus 1.
I think if for being different I was ostracised I would probably end up neutral to evil on a DnD character sheet (magneto being chaotic evil and charles xavier being good as opposed to lawful good which are the weird corporation in "heroes"). This would probably be accounted for by my belief that there are still things more worth fighting for than money and my understandably jaded view of the world.
Also as a child you aren't bullied because you are different its because when you are an adolescent you gain joyful emotion from the feeling of power. one of the greatest moments of your life is the empowering moment when you first leave home. Bullying is all about power.
the reason they pick on certain individuals is because they see that individual as a vulnerable individual. the kid who sits on his own is often a popular choice because he doesn't have much in the way of defence. no-one has ever seen a whole group of goths all bullied by one guy or the nerd's table interrupted by no less than the number of nerds present minus 1.
Oh Bob you evil genius!
While I understand the super mutant counter bully sentiment I wouldn't want to fuel another Adolf in his madness, understanding is the key to our salvation, but people are still mainly animals... and well a dog hasto be hit on the nose until he really understands.
As for the "because you're different", well that just sums up all peoples hate toward others and our need to group up and find conflict (all who are not in our group shall be hated!... console fanboy 101)
But bullying really comes down to "because we can", noone will pick on someone with more power only on those with less, and picking on weaklings will both serve up conflict and empowerment.
While I understand the super mutant counter bully sentiment I wouldn't want to fuel another Adolf in his madness, understanding is the key to our salvation, but people are still mainly animals... and well a dog hasto be hit on the nose until he really understands.
As for the "because you're different", well that just sums up all peoples hate toward others and our need to group up and find conflict (all who are not in our group shall be hated!... console fanboy 101)
But bullying really comes down to "because we can", noone will pick on someone with more power only on those with less, and picking on weaklings will both serve up conflict and empowerment.
i would probably be with Xavier first, then depending on which comic version I'm in, the nicer ones i would probably stay on Xaviers team, however the darker ones i probably would join Megneto.
I didnt mean to degrade Micheal Jordan or any of his achivements, I belive that perciverence is important. Personally I think that Bobs choice of subjects in the comparison was rather poor in retrospect (mind you those are the two most well know members of that group, so we have to give him that).Jopoho said:
Lets break it down to minimulist terms.
Person (A) has made billions of dollars by creating technology that has helped advance socity and help millions derectly and is made by the media to apper evil.
Person (B) has made billions by playing a sport which has had no reall binficall impart of society and is made out by the media as a hero.
Assume that both of these people (whome have no history of which to speak of, they have simply popped into existance for the purpose of this thaught experiment)are of the same mildly pleasnt demenor its seems rather odd that (A) is demonized simply becuase he able to think of this that most people are unable to grasp.