Arseholes are arseholes. Sexism and racsism is everywhere. Whether they play games, politics, in the police army or whom ever. The fact the person is a geek shouldnt matter.
The Big Picture: Not Okay
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Hear! Hear! Well spoken Bruce!
er... I mean Bob.
And thank you to Windu23 for linking an interesting article on the topic.
Jimquisition also engages in this form of journalism. Am I not supposed to question the author? Did C'thulu establish his eternal dominance when I was not paying attention?
(All hail the Dark Lord!)
er... I mean Bob.
And thank you to Windu23 for linking an interesting article on the topic.
Edit: having read the article, I can't help thinking that the author is being disingenuous. He makes several statements comparing the respective developers and communities. Without actual statements from the Publishers (I should have liked to see any numbers showing that Blizzard's involvement in SC tournaments was lucrative) or serious assessments of their relationship with the communities, they sound like willful assertions. He uses the word 'insular' when I rather suspect that 'bunkered' would be a better descriptor. 'Insular' has neutral connotations, whereas someone built the bunker.Windu23 said:
Jimquisition also engages in this form of journalism. Am I not supposed to question the author? Did C'thulu establish his eternal dominance when I was not paying attention?
(All hail the Dark Lord!)
I been around the internet a more than decent amount of childhood destroying time.
I haven't really seen much of ANY of these things, I mean occasionally yeah, you get some crack-pot going nuts, but no more than... well any other community that I see.
I agree it's not OK, but trying to pick out the idiots of the world is damn difficult, and they're idiots - how do you expect to fix them? Hate them to death? Sadly - YES - they do have the free-speech to say such things, and just you watch them abuse that right for all they're worth. Sexual harassment like this I can understand does indeed cause harm.
But if it's just casual discussion they mention it - where discussion is calm, there's very little you can do. If it's their view it's their view - it probably got so extreme for some really stupid reason, but it's still there. If we can fix a few of the bad-eggs and hit them with a newspaper until they're better then fine, but it's not like we can really fix up every guy can we?
Still - I approve of this. Hate is always a bad thing.
I haven't really seen much of ANY of these things, I mean occasionally yeah, you get some crack-pot going nuts, but no more than... well any other community that I see.
I agree it's not OK, but trying to pick out the idiots of the world is damn difficult, and they're idiots - how do you expect to fix them? Hate them to death? Sadly - YES - they do have the free-speech to say such things, and just you watch them abuse that right for all they're worth. Sexual harassment like this I can understand does indeed cause harm.
But if it's just casual discussion they mention it - where discussion is calm, there's very little you can do. If it's their view it's their view - it probably got so extreme for some really stupid reason, but it's still there. If we can fix a few of the bad-eggs and hit them with a newspaper until they're better then fine, but it's not like we can really fix up every guy can we?
Still - I approve of this. Hate is always a bad thing.
This is common in activities/establishments/cultures that views themselves as fraternal or male dominated. The same can be seen at Gyms (Boxing and Fighting ones more often), Shooting Ranges and other places where men feel they can be "liberated". The common thought process behind the jackasses that perpetrate the behavior is simple other men agree with them because they are also men. they do it to posture/pose and generally get attention.
Crying about it in most situations only makes them feel more empowered for their own stupidity. Telling them they're not cool only gives them more of the attention their bolstering so obviously proves they crave.
I agree it is not synonymous with the Fighting Game crowd nor any particular niche genre save possibly the obvious porn sims. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the gamers that use such colorful language have the same charm and beauty as the subject you're lambasting though. So in reality there is little reason to single them out as their behavior IRL probably does that enough for them whenever they choose to slither out of their caves.
anyway TLDR?
This is probably many of the folks on this board only exposure to a supposed predominately male hobby so they're unaware of how rampant it (Harassment/misogyny) is in many others. Get more exposure... Or you know... Don't.
Crying about it in most situations only makes them feel more empowered for their own stupidity. Telling them they're not cool only gives them more of the attention their bolstering so obviously proves they crave.
I agree it is not synonymous with the Fighting Game crowd nor any particular niche genre save possibly the obvious porn sims. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the gamers that use such colorful language have the same charm and beauty as the subject you're lambasting though. So in reality there is little reason to single them out as their behavior IRL probably does that enough for them whenever they choose to slither out of their caves.
anyway TLDR?
This is probably many of the folks on this board only exposure to a supposed predominately male hobby so they're unaware of how rampant it (Harassment/misogyny) is in many others. Get more exposure... Or you know... Don't.
Reading comprehension, friend. "Encourages male sexual aggression," and "supports violence against women" are two different things. Did you read down to the part about 1 in 30 men being raped over the course of their lives and how it's considered an integral part of our criminal justice system? Pretty interesting if they're saying that only women suffer from it. However, women are OVERWHELMINGLY more vulnerable to sexual aggression, so yes, it does make sense to focus on them. "What about teh menz?" isn't always the answer.Abandon4093 said:
And society does encourage sexually aggressive men and not women. Not subconsciously, either. Look up "slut-shaming."
Again, refer to "Rape Culture 101."Abandon4093 said:
But they'll probably die sad and alone... So who gives a fuck?Mae Aloril said:
If you're going to be a dumbass manchild chances are good eventually it will bite you in the ass. Me telling someone to stop being stupid is unlikely to have much effect. Ignoring them and allowing them to rot (assuming as a society we don't empower the behavior by associating with it much) is the easier option. And the one with most long lasting effects. Unless we're going to do something more effective then just call them assholes...
Sexual harassment is an important part of the fighting game culture? Did this ever actually happen?
Can you please not use the phrase "beta male", please. Everytime I hear it, a little bit of my hope in humanity dies a littleAlloflifedecays said:
Alloflifedecays used the term [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=beta+male] incorrectly.lizabeth19 said:
Despite your revulsion, I will have you know that I am a Beta Male, and quite proud of it.
Kindly reserve your cringing for memes that serve no function.
Capcha thinks I'm being presumptuous: hobby-horse
Reasonable episode, Bob. Fairly 'first lecture in womens' studies 101' (or whatever numbering system your local university uses), but an entirely sensible set of points brought about nonetheless.
It also serves to remind me that we should take Thomas Jefferson with a grain of salt. I may not agree with a thing you say, and if it's hate speech there is no sense in which I will defend your right to abuse me or anyone else with it.
Here's hoping we get a 'fun' episode as you call them next week.
It also serves to remind me that we should take Thomas Jefferson with a grain of salt. I may not agree with a thing you say, and if it's hate speech there is no sense in which I will defend your right to abuse me or anyone else with it.
Here's hoping we get a 'fun' episode as you call them next week.
Wow, the verbal gymnastics that are going on in this thread to justify shitty, sexist, neanderthal-like behaviour are nothing short of Olympic worthy.
Sadly I left my bag of torches at the vets office.
Well said Bob. These things do need to be talked about. Ignoring it wont solve anything. I was attending a convention last year that also had a BlazBlue tournament. Sadly there was only males participating in the tournament, but there was a good mix of races and I thankfully didnt hear any bigotry being spouted, just the usual chest thumping. So it was an enjoyable experience in that sense.
Well said Bob. These things do need to be talked about. Ignoring it wont solve anything. I was attending a convention last year that also had a BlazBlue tournament. Sadly there was only males participating in the tournament, but there was a good mix of races and I thankfully didnt hear any bigotry being spouted, just the usual chest thumping. So it was an enjoyable experience in that sense.
mandalorian2298 said:First of all, I am not a psychology professor, I am a philosophy professor. The only reason that I have mentioned that in my post has been to explain why I care deeply about people making the mistake that I described in my post. The validity of my objection should be judged solely on it's coherency and the quality of my reasoning. I do not believe that my academic title, by itself, makes my reasoning more or less sound. For the same reason, I see no need to make a reference to other people's work in order to strengthen my case. Non quis, sed quid. (it doesn't matter who said something, it only matters what they said)sapphireofthesea said:mandalorian2298 said:Disclaimer: The first sentence or the post that follows it is not meant to be baiting. I am a professor of philosophy and this is a sincere statement of my feelings.
Some of the views expressed in this video hurt me on a deep emotional level. If it was just one man's views then I wouldn't give it much thought since mistakes happen and it's often very hard to see, admit and correct one's own mistake. However, the delusion in question seems to have spread over large portions of humanity, including some of our best and brightest (Movie Bob being an example for both), and I am starting to feel like a the last sane guy in the asylum.
The mistake I am talking about is:
Unlike saying proven objective truths (for example "Randomly attacking people on the street will not make you popular among the police officers."), expressing purely subjective opinions does not obligate other people to agree with you (for example, I believe that the answer to most of philosophical question can be found in one or more episodes of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', but I do not think that the fact Stanford didn't include that show in their curriculum makes Stanford's philosophy program inadequate.)
So far, I am sure that most of you are on board with me. However, for reasons that are entirely mysterious to me, most people believe that, if they wish it REALLY hard, their subjective opinions will MAGICALLY BECOME OBJECTIVE TRUTHS! Aalakazam!
For the betterment of the human race, I present you with a short list of things that DO NOT transmogrify your opinions into objective truths:
1. Shouting.
2. The fact that YOU really believe it to be true, despite the lack of conclusive evidence (unless you are being played by Kevin Costner).
3. The fact that you find the opposing opinion offensive does not make you right, it makes you small-minded (or else every racist, homophobe or fanatic of any kind would be a moral authority by virtue of insanity).
4. Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")
People do not need your permission to have or to express an opinion. If you think that they are wrong - challenge them. If you know them to be logically incorrect - prove it. If you can't but you are still bothered that they are allowed to freely speak their mind -
THEN
GROW
THE
*CENSORED FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS WORD EXISTS*
UP!!!
EDITED on 3.7.2012. 9.14h
5. The fact that many people share your opinion does not prove your opinion to an objective truth (if you disagree, then please prove me wrong. Gather a herd of people who also don't believe me and win the lottery 10 times in a row by making everyone share your belief that you are going to win.
Mr. Psychology professor. I am aware that this was meant for the non-science crowd. However, being a scientist myself and in the interest of further enforcing the validity of your argument, please provide some references for the points you have made, otherwise you are at risk of finding your own statements fall victim to your line of logic.
I personally find your above, unsupported, statement flawed, without reinforcement, and ignorant of the possibly of collective moralities playing a part in supporting a right or wrong ideal. I am no expert but I am aware of the contention in psychology surrounding the idea of morality. I would love to give references myself but it is late and it is not my field of study so I have no grounding to make an informed search of the literature.
As for collective moralities, I believe that, while it is true that many groups of people share certain moral beliefs or whole moral systems, I do not believe that an opinion, moral or otherwise, becomes more valid simply because more people believe in it. Just because something IS does not prove that it OUGHT to be (Hume's Law). The fact that many people believe in something does not prove their belief to be either correct or moral (the moral system shared by the majority of Germans during Third Reich is a commonly quoted example).
In fact, that whole "many people sharing an opinion make that opinion true, will make a nice rule 5 for my original post:
5. The fact that many people share your opinion does not prove your opinion to an objective truth (if you disagree, then please prove me wrong. Gather a herd of people who also don't believe me and win the lottery 10 times in a row by making everyone share your belief that you are going to win.
My issue was less against your argument and more that your argument is unsupported. As best I am aware, even philosophy requires that positions be backed up by some 'evidence', in the case of philosophy I know it to be the opinion of other noted Philosophors.
So please find some referenecs to support your position otherwise your distinction of being a philosophy professor (in support of your position being informed) becomes only as valid as any of the other posters here.
The well informed inform, the Scientific refer.