The Big Picture: Off the Charts

[LordLundar]

Aww, how cute. Look at all the people screaming about one line in the entire video. Then they trump up all the examples they can think of that "defy the statement" and they're all the same selection. Don't get me wrong, I love storyline in games and I love games that have a really strong storyline. But if you want to make an argument that good story in western games is not in the vast minority, then you need to come up with more than the same few developers and the same handful of games.

Then comes the people saying the "emo longhairs" bit. Congratulations, your only counterpoint for bad writing in Japanese games comes from one game that's been milked into oblivion because of the demand from western markets. How broad minded of you. Even if it's still a minority of the games from Japan that are well written, it's still a better percentage because there is less focus on marketable graphics over there and more into character development and storyline. Maybe if you went beyond the one series that as of late has become more western influenced as of late, you might realize this.

 

[themerrygambit]

I honestly don't see how any of those 4 "Yet to be made great gaming movies" could ever possibly be a good movie.

Castelvania would just look like a Van Hellsing knock off
The legend of Zelda would look like "Legend" or "The never ending story". Maybe a good animated film but I don't think it would translate to actual film without looking like a hoaky 80s fantasy flick.

Mario Brothers? Again I don't buy it. Possibly an animated kids film but there really is hardly a strong story here and the personalities of all the characters are still 2 dimensional at best.

Metal Gear? Possibly but essentially this would be another navy seal movie or something along the lines of an 80s action hero movie... I'm not sure the mainstream audience is there for that anymore. It's possible a good script could come out of it but It's already been done better in other movies.

Metroid, and Halo have interesting stories but the big problem with those two properties is that the main protagonist is a complete Mute that the player projects themself onto. As soon as you cast that character and give them a face/personality etc. You've already lost one of the Main aspects those characters.

The real interesting movies are the ones with deep story lines and good writing. The entire Mass Effect trilogy could easily be translated into 3 amazing movies and it wouldn't take much to turn the video game story for each game into a script. The second game might take a bit more doctoring than the first but the Main Plot points are strong.

Another good one is the original Bioshock. That story is amazing as well. easily translated to a movie screen with very little alteration.

I could also potentially see Halflife being made into a game because we at least have the face of Gordon freeman and just based upon that we can almost piece together what his personality might be like... Although we'd have to find some time for Yahtzee to take some time off from Zero Punctuation for filming.

The unfortunate reality of any Game to Movie translation is you have to deal with the various "Artists" that make the movie. I was in the acting/film industry for a while and one thing I noticed is that every Director or Producer wants to leave their "mark" on the whatever they are working on. They can't just take a good script and bring it to life. They have to add their own artistic flair/interpretation to it in order to make themselves feel important or push some personal message/agenda. So unfortunately until an actual avid gamer becomes a mainstream movie director or producer we're still going to be stuck with crappy video game based movies.

We're only just now getting Hollywood directors that used to be avid comic readers making movies faithful to their source materials. Jon Favreau (The Iron Man movies), Sam Raimi(The Spiderman Movies), And arguably the most faithful being Quentin Tarantino for making sure that Sin City looked as close to the comics as humanly possible.

So unfortunately a truly great Video Game movie is still quite a ways away, I have high hopes for the Mass Effect movies if they get a good director... but who knows that might go the way of the bioshock & halo movies once budgets are discussed.

 

[Sutter Cane]

I've seen alot of people bashing Moviebob about his "For a western developer" line, and I think it's funny that they bring up the same five games. Probably because those few games are the exception. Most games that I play for a good story aren't western made games because western games put more emphasisi on making a profit rather than making a touching story and gameplay.

Right, beacuse spiky-haired adolescents moping around for hours on end is totally good storytelling.

Sorry, pal, but even though Western games with good storylines are in the minority, there ain't much better in the other hemisphere.

because every Japanese game is not only a JRPG, but also has a cliche plot.

Also at least most JRPGs attempt to have a plot beyond GRR I AM BADASS GRR. Many non rpg western developed games can't seem to get past that.

also, a bit of topic, I'm willing to give the Green Lantern film a chance as the director is the guy who saved the bond series twice and directed 2 of the best films in the series, Casino Royale and Goldeneye

 

[Mr. Omega]

Aww, how cute. Look at all the people screaming about one line in the entire video.

QUOTED FOR FUCKING TRUTH. I'm going to ignore the rest of it, because it just feeds the flames, though.

This thread has gotten WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic. It's gone from "movie adaptation of games" to the ol' "East vs West" debate, complete with flamewars! Seriously, can't someone just make an "East vs West" thread so we can get back to discussing what the video was actually about?

 

[kael013]

"For a western developer"...
BioShock, Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Halo, Assassin's Creed, mother. [i/]fucking.[/i] HALF-LIFE!
I could go on, but really, what's the point? I knew this would fall on deaf ears when I saw the characters on the "potentially good movies" slide (Hint: 2 Nintendo franchises, 1 Konami, and I didn't recognize the other).

Why only the 6? There have been thousands of Western developed video games since the beginning of this medium, so the you can choose from a wide canyon. But your side keep going for the same 6? Are you guys really that lazy and cannot come up with more choices?

2nd paragraph, and I quote "I could go on". I just put those [i/]7[/i] because they were the first to come to mind and are widely known. KotOR (the 2nd one as well, if you play with the restoration mod), Marathon, Oni, System Shock 2, Battlefield: Bad Company, (and as you mentioned) Amnesia, Portal, and Beyond Good and Evil are others.

While I only have a 360 and a (slightly) good laptop for my gaming platforms (so I mostly get western games) I am aware that eastern developers have good stories as well (and I never said anywhere that they don't). Silent Hill, Shadow of the Colossus, and ICO (just to pull from your list) are games I have watched Let's Plays of and they were very interesting.

EDIT:

I don't mind him pointing out that most games have shitty stories. I agree. They do.
It's the specific jibe as western games that gets under my skin.
EDIT: Wait a sec... did you mean to quote kael013 instead of me? Because your post seems more like a response to his then mine. Now I feel silly.

Yeah, I think they meant to quote me, but don't feel silly. You summarized my position on this quite nicely. But I guess I better go and reply back to Shjade anyways.

tl;dr - I read it all.

BioShock: I agree with you on this one.

Mass Effect: A sci-fi shooter with RPG elements and an above average story. However, those "player interaction options" do impact the story. I guess you could boil those options down to the three you mentioned, but I preferred to choose what I would have done in that situation which means I was alternating between executing criminals for endangering a stranger to giving out autographs to asking Alliance Fleet HQ why I should give a s**t about a bloody probe to, well you get the idea.

RDR: On reflection, it's [i/]decent[/i], better than others on my list, but not near the top.

Dragon Age: Kinda like Mass Effect, but in a fantasy setting with with the old school RPG dialogue tree. And instead of black-and-white morality, it's black-and-grey.

Halo: I put this one in in a moment of nostalgia (Halo was my first videogame). However, I never said it was an example of great storytelling, but it does have an [i/]interesting[/i] story (for me, anyways). Sure the characters weren't great and the story wasn't amazing, but it got me hooked into a universe that I found intriguing. To me that's a win.

Half-Life: I guess I should have mentioned I was talking about the series with this one, but whatever. This is a great example of a character-driven game (as you pointed out), which adds a more human aspect to it and draws you in more.

All in all, I'm not here to debate whether western developers are better at stories than eastern developers or if the games I think have good stories are the same as yours. When MovieBob said "for a western developer" he was implying that ALL western developers can't do good stories (since he was saying that an Indiana-Jones-by-Joss-Whedon game is some of the best we can do). I'm here to counter that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

When I go to watch the HQ version it just says stream not found.

That's because there is no quality, low or high, involved in anything Bob does.

I hope you don't get a probation for this, because that was an awesome burn.

He trolls and gets paid for it. I should be able to display my thoughts on his work (as it is). I didn't say anything about the man himself, just that his output on the site is severely lacking in quality based solely on what he himself says. I shouldn't get in any trouble for it, and THAT is the big picture lol

That's good advice; I need to write this down on a post-it and stick it on the top side of my screen.

And arguably the most faithful being Quentin Tarantino for making sure that Sin City looked as close to the comics as humanly possible.

Tarantino was only a guest director on that movie for one small scene. Robert Rodriguez was the actual director of Sin City.

 

[Shjade]

Oh, and Street Fighter. If there is any game that has its "focus on action over any story at all" then that would be it.

...

It's the specific jibe as western games that gets under my skin.

Personally I'd point at Mario for the best example of wildly-popular-zero-story. Street Fighter, believe it or not, has a lot of story, mostly behind the scenes. It's just...hilariously god-awful. The whole Vega (Bison) making eye-candy clones of himself for himself deal? Good lord. Don't even get me started.

I get the feeling part of this disconnect must be that Bob has a more accepting palette when it comes to Japanese games than do most of the people commenting on his vids. Just scroll back and count the number of people griping about emo-kids and JRPGs. Then consider how many people like those stories and take note that disliking a story doesn't make it bad. It makes it a story you didn't like. Considering cultural differences, that conflict of tastes will likely come up a lot when weighing non-Western game stories for merit, at least when the people making those considerations aren't even trying to be objective critics.

I'm not immune to this myself - yet another reason I'm not a great candidate for making comparisons between the two sides. You only have to go as far as Chrono Trigger to see that. It's one of the heaviest-hitters when it comes to JRPGs people hold up as great examples of everything the genre can be, how enthralling a story can get, and so on and so forth. It didn't do much for me, personally. I suspect this is due at least in part to playing things out of order and long after release (I'd already played - and loved - Chrono Cross before I got my hands on its predecessor), but regardless of why, it's a pretty big game to not find impressive in these kinds of discussions. Thus my unwillingness to compare.

What I can say confidently is this: when I talk to my gaming friends and they gush about whatever they're currently playing, the ones who are more into western games will - exclusively - tell me about exciting set pieces, battles, achievements and kills they've played through, while the ones more into Japanese games will - again, exclusively - want to tell me all about the storyline and characters (and, sometimes, the music) involved in their latest discovery.

Is that any kind of conclusive evidence? Hell no, it's an anecdote. It says as much - or more - about the players as the games. But it does give me reason enough not to feel insecure about a remark from Bob that, though divisively phrased, is none the less accurate.

 

[themilo504]

i dont realy care about uncharted the movie my dream is that mass effect gets a good movie. it isent a star wars ripoff its a science fiction world with its own aliens worlds and science. you can easily make a side story to the main game.but it while probaly wont do that and try to retell the story of mass effect 1 if were lucky.also castelvannia wont make a good movie mario or zelda could work if they amazed us with the look of the world to make sure nobody cares about the fact the story is realy clich.and metal gear i have no idea it could mabye work but im not sure.also half life and portal would be great if there done right if they arent they while fail.

 

[The Noobasaurus Rex]

Bob, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about Sam Raimi directing the Warcraft movie. I honestly believe that Warcraft could be the movie that breaks the curse of video game movies sucking or pissing off the game's fanbase.

I did like the first Mortal Kombat movie though...

 

[darthotaku]

I've seen alot of people bashing Moviebob about his "For a western developer" line, and I think it's funny that they bring up the same five games. Probably because those few games are the exception. Most games that I play for a good story aren't western made games because western games put more emphasis on making a profit rather than making a touching story and gameplay.

*inhales*

System Shock 2, Bioshock, Half-Life 2, Portal, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, Grim Fandango, Planescape: Torment, God Of War, Dues Ex, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem,and many, many more.

Also, you're talking about a "touching story and gameplay" when you have Squall as your avatar?

Yeesh.

Both western and eastern developers have equally good and shitty writers, no other is better than the other. I'm really getting tired of this pointless argument.

We have Portal and Bioshock, while the east has Silent Hill 2 and Okami. Do we really need to have a contest of who's better?

alright you've convinced me. I take back my previous statement.

 

[Verlander]

No interest in computer games based movies really... I don't have a close enough attachment to any computer game based storyline to want to see it's big screen translation.

I thought the best games were supposed to involve the player creating the storyline anyway? How can that work as a film?

 

[J.McMillen]

I think the big problem with adapting video games into movies is that there are really 3 ways to do it, and two are guaranteed to get fan boy complaints.

1. If the movie sticks to the plot and follows what happens in the game then fan boys will complain that it's nothing more than a walk-through of the game, a game they already played.

2. If you take the basic premise/plot of the game and go your own direction with it, the fan boys will complain that you aren't being true to the source material.

3. Take the source material and make a movie that takes place before, after, or between (for games with sequels) the events in the video game. What makes this different from #2 is that it can't contradict what happens in the games (no plot holes).

Fortunately I can't think of any movies that chose #1. Probably because even a short game is still going to be 2-3 times longer than then movie should be so a lot of cutting would be involved which could easily ruin the flow and make the plot fragmented. #2 seems to be the most popular choice for movie makers since it gives them a starting off point but doesn't constrain them from branching out. Fortunately there has been a few recent video game movies that chose option 3 and they seem to be pretty good (example: Dead Space animated movies). This would be the best option I think for an Uncharted movie. Either a prequel or set between games 1 & 2 (if there is a time gap between the two games (don't know, haven't played them).

But if you want to talk bad movie adaptions I've got one name for you..... Catwoman
They couldn't get anything right and even Halle Berry said the movie was crap.

 

[Sutter Cane]

Aww, how cute. Look at all the people screaming about one line in the entire video.

QUOTED FOR FUCKING TRUTH. I'm going to ignore the rest of it, because it just feeds the flames, though.

This thread has gotten WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic. It's gone from "movie adaptation of games" to the ol' "East vs West" debate, complete with flamewars! Seriously, can't someone just make an "East vs West" thread so we can get back to discussing what the video was actually about?

Apparently not, because then people wouldn't be able to complain about how biased moviebob is and how all his videos suck

 

[GreigKM]

Um, Bob, you do know that Valve and Bioware are western developers, right? Because whatever eastern developed high-quality story game you are eluding to (Probably the Persona series) doesn't have nearly as high of quality writing as ANY game developed by both of those western firms (Well, maybe higher quality than Dragon Age II, but that was a rush job..)

Not to mention the HUGE mistake you made, the one that every movie critic who analyzes games makes. See, movies tell stories MUCH differently than games, and trying to compare the two is ridiculous and uninsightful. For example, would Portal work as a movie? No, but it is the height of story and artistic merit in a game, yet you analyze Uncharted as if it where a movie, not even playing it. Now, I've never played it, but I'm not going to criticize it's story just from the cutscene footage. Next time you want to attack a game based on story, play it, or else you haven't gotten the full effect of the story.

And Hollywood definitely should stop making movies out of games, as they should stop making movies out of books, or any other form of artistic expression. Gesh, next thing you know Hollywood will be making Bedroom in Arles: The Movie...

 

[themerrygambit]

Tarantino was only a guest director on that movie for one small scene. Robert Rodriguez was the actual director of Sin City.

Yes you are correct in that. My bad. Credit should go where credit is due. I think I attribute a greater role to Tarantino because in one of the behind the scenes videos both he and Rodriguez talked about how they wanted to faithfully reproduce the works of Frank Miller vs try to put any kind of personal spin on it which is why I included it.

 

[Fappy]

You couldn't go without saying "from a western developer" could you? So, what, are eastern developers better at telling a story?

Seriously, not going to even go further into it.

That comment also made me raise an eyebrow. I've been under the impression that western developers have been leading the charge for the narrative evolution of video games for quite some time now.

EDIT: Okay, wow. I just glanced some of the posts proceeding mine and some of you guys need to calm the fuck down. Bob specializes in film criticism and while "The Big Picture" is not necessarily a show about films, he never claims to be an expert on writing in video games. I may not agree with him either, but there's no reason to treat this as some kind of attack nor is it cause to believe he's some kind of ignorant jack ass.

Also, it completely perplexes me that some of you don't understand that this show is about Bob's opinions. This is a blog, a column, a fireside chat, an informal discussion... whatever you want to call it. If you don't like his opinions, that's okay, don't watch this show, but don't let that "ruin Movie Bob" for you. The only thing I would criticize in this regard is Bob's lack of response to viewer feedback. It would be nice to see him defend his points further after stating them.

 

[themerrygambit]

ARGH, FFS Bob stop making me hate you!

I kind of agree... I really like Bob's Movie reviews but his "big picture" videos are starting to make me want to tune out. He's starting to push his personal views/opinions on me and I'm not really agreeing with any of them. Half the time I'm tuning in to see how he's going to tick me off next lol.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Tarantino was only a guest director on that movie for one small scene. Robert Rodriguez was the actual director of Sin City.

Well yes you are correct in that. I actually think they Co-Directed that movie, but the main reason I didn't Mention Rodriguez is because I have mixed feelings about his interpretation of 300. But yes he should also be mentioned because while on one hand 300 could have been better in my opinion on the other it was very faithful to the comic it was based on. So yeah thanks for pointing that one out.

I hope you're making these mistakes delibarately, because Rodriguez didn't direct 300, Zack Snider did.