The Big Picture: Original Geek Girl

[Nexxis]

I'm actually surprised that Super Girl had so much history behind her. I never bothered to research it myself, but I always assumed that she was just a "female" superman, essentially. I can't wait to see the next video.

 

[A_Libertarian]

Bob, I have to say this is the first time I've disagreed with you strongly (re: the "Fake Geek Girl" thing).
I don't think that the reaction has anything to do with "keeping girls out" of geek culture - rather, it's more of a self-protective reaction. I think geeks/nerds of a certain generation are so used to being mocked openly (in school, on TV, movies, etc), that we are far more suspicious than we should be of girls finally realizing that our nerdy interests are fun. The push-back (if there really is any), is more against being pandered to and insulted by what seems like faked interest by the fairer sex and corporate America.

Remember in high school when you would fantasize about sweeping Ms. Beautiful off of her feet, and even your own head would betray you and remember that she wouldn't like what you consider fun? That mild subconscious shame you could feel even when you were enjoying yourself playing AD&D or a video game? Ok, maybe that's just me, but there are millions who felt the same, I know. Now the hot girl on TV has a ridiculous grin on her face and is flailing at a game pad like an epileptic chimp, and I'm insulted. And feeling that insult in the media fuels a resentment that can be misplaced on females who actually enjoy nerd-hobbies because we can't know if, deep inside, they're just another corporate drone hawking something or if we suddenly ARE as cool as everyone else.

It's not pretty in an old-school nerd's head. We took the lumps, and now maybe popular culture really is coming around at last... But there are still plenty of water-headed fakes out there, waiting to mock what they can't understand, or just trying to fit in with the crowd. More power to the ladies who actually enjoy an evening of Star Trek, but I'll not be buying them a Captain Janeway uniform until they prove they're for real.

 

[Jumplion]

However this whole anti fake geek girl thing proably steams from things like Booth babes or other host of geek related media who are there for sex appeal alone. Remeber when pax didnt allow booth babes or at least made them have to know about the game in question they were supporting. Same kind of idea.

Read the #1 on this list
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-awful-ways-internet-tainting-everything-else_p2/

That is an interesting point the article is making.

I think the issue is less on "fake gamer girls", whatever the hell that means, and more on the fact that it feels manipulating. After all, as MovieBob said, the "popular kids" now want to join in on our little club, but because they are trying to manipulate people by acting all nerdy n' whatnot it implies that gaming is still viewed as a childish hobby to be used and manipulated to get the nerds salivating at them.

I mean, look at movies. Why is there no outrage against "fake movie-buff girls" that pose for movie shots and premiers and conventions and whatnot? Because they, women, are already seen as integral to the medium and people recognize that the women that do pose and cosplay in sexy outfits referencing movies as just women who want to flaunt their stuff (nothing wrong with that, mind you). Nobody questions whether they even know the movie they're cosplaying from or not because it doesn't matter. For gaming, because it's still considered an immature hobby, people feel more threatened and manipulated when women do the same thing, thinking (and to an extent justified in this thinking) that the woman is just doing this to get "nerd" points.

I dunno, I feel it's more of an issue of feeling "manipulated" and gaming still being thought as an infantile pasttime. I do agree with Bob, however, that the entire thing alltogether is just an effort to exclude more diversity in the medium/industry for the sake of keeping things the same.

Note, I am not demonizing "fake gamer girls" (again, whatever the hell that means), I don't have an issue with women who want to flaut their stuff in tribute to the medium they love, or hell even if it's just a marketing scheme. I just think this issue is a bit more involved then some people give it credit.

 

[kab040]

First of all 'nerd culture' hasn't gone mainstream. Snippets of it have gone mainstream yes, but since we ourselves as nerds cannot classify what is a 'nerd or geek' it can't go mainstream. I think this mainly comes from the pretty girls wearing the thick glasses and the 'ironically' funny tee-shirts that ten years ago they wouldn't be seen dead in. Some are doing it because they actually found they liked it, some are doing it to get attention. Those are the ones we dislike.

Think about it we have fought tooth and nail to maintain our subculture and now it suddenly okay to be what we are? It's a bit of a culture shock and it's not surprising there are those who want to go back to the status quo. Wait a few years and it will be something else that is popular and mainstream. Take the influx of sports movies from the 90's.

In a few years the hipster movement, and it's nerd chic will die off and for better or worse we will have added new members to our subculture and the angry troglodytes will disappeared back into the heart of the Tardis or wherever they come from.


On topic thought. So this mean's the boob window will be talked about? Oh god!

 

[90sgamer]

Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.

 

[punipunipyo]

Yeah, I was TOTALLY in sync with your view on the whole "Fake Nerd Girl" thing... I was like (the first time I heard this was a "thing"... "WTF? Weren't we supposed to be hella happy, that we ARE the mainstream? That WE are the standard? that WE took over? THat ALL they (the beautiful people) are now wanting to be part of OUR culture?" I still don't get it... it took us years, we finally took over the world... and now we don't want to let the people who can MORE APPROVE us being the majority in? that's just stupid... they now want to crown us, and we cast the crown out the window (not in a Christian way)? weird...

Nope, we didn't take over the world.

Thick framed glasses took over the world. Basic Star Wars trivia took over the world. Online memes took over the world.

Being actually nerdy, as in being obsessed with extensive details of some insignificant hobby, even at the expense of sociability, is just as ridiculed as ever. Except that now the people who kept supporting the bullying and the hate and the arrogance, call themselves "nerds", based on some surface change in fashions. Because now instead of dudebro movies, we have dudebro shooters (and games are nerdy, right?), or because the blockbuster movies have more speculative fiction and less traditional war/police action movies (aliens are nerdy, right?), etc.

Because the youtube vloggers playing up their "nerd girl" appeal are the same ones who would have played up an emo style a few years ago, a punk rocker style two decade ago, and a hippie style half a century ago. Because they tend to be the kind of people who care more about following the trends, than understanding the motivations and behaviors of the subcultures that they represent.

I can't tell whether people genuinely don't understand why there's a thing about fake nerd girls, or whether they're just pretending not to understand it to come off as understanding or something.

People hate attention whores.

That is all.

No seriously, people complain about attention whores everywhere. If there's a person whoring attention, there will be somebody complaining about it. Add to that the general insecurities of people who actually identify as a 'geek' in a non ironic fashion, and you get 'the fake nerd girl meme/situation/whatever.'

It's really not that hard to understand. And I don't even bloodywell identify myself as a geek/nerd/whatever.

The thing is, that all these bloggers, journalists, opinion leaders, and commentators, who keep bringing up these moral issues, are basically pundits.

They are the pundits of the gamer community, and they make a living from bringing you the latest Moral Panic, even if they have to make one up.

Because "There is this big outrage full of idiots where everyone says this and that exact thing, and now here I tell you why they are all wrong" sells better than "There is a recent discussion theme with various directions, out of which, I vehemently disagree with the sexist implications of Penetrator999's post, and though leto2yay brought up a good point about booth babes being sexist, then nippon-warkiller brought that too far by blaming this on the girls themselves, and while Kafkaesque_Dreamer's justification for nerds' distaste for fakes was spot on, HotForAsuka sounded a bit too elitist as if she would have a superiority complex about how being a True Nerd is better than being other people."

It's just a show. It's supposed to make you feel involved. Make you feel afraid of the barbarians at the gate, about the "outraged masses" obsessively repeating their point, while US, the right ones, are merely "engaging in discourse".

Wow... Deep.. but sub-culture or mainstream, THEY WANT TO HAVE OUR APPROVAL!!!! that's all that matters rightnow!~ we are what's up!~ not the Rockers/Bikers/Jocks/Army/Cops..What ever was hot before... WE ARE NOW WHAT'S HOT NOW!~

That's why I was so happy, we should take our chance and "educate" them, make them a "better" mimic, eventually, they will BECOME US!~~~~ MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!~~~~~~~~~~

 

[daxterx2005]

Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

ROFL

My lord thats hilarious

Power girl next week?

My body is ready.

This.
This was made perfect by your avatar.
Excellent work.



Also, that's sexist. You sexist. No sexist zone. Sexist. Sex. [small]where am i?[/small]

Im a sexy sexist though right?

 

[MegaManOfNumbers]

Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.

Last I checked, 1950s America is pretty different, culturally, than 21st century America.

 

[wild0061]

Nope, we didn't take over the world.

Thick framed glasses took over the world. Basic Star Wars trivia took over the world. Online memes took over the world.

Being actually nerdy, as in being obsessed with extensive details of some insignificant hobby, even at the expense of sociability, is just as ridiculed as ever. Except that now the people who kept supporting the bullying and the hate and the arrogance, call themselves "nerds", based on some surface change in fashions. Because now instead of dudebro movies, we have dudebro shooters (and games are nerdy, right?), or because the blockbuster movies have more speculative fiction and less traditional war/police action movies (aliens are nerdy, right?), etc.

Because the youtube vloggers playing up their "nerd girl" appeal are the same ones who would have played up an emo style a few years ago, a punk rocker style two decade ago, and a hippie style half a century ago. Because they tend to be the kind of people who care more about following the trends, than understanding the motivations and behaviors of the subcultures that they represent.

I can't tell whether people genuinely don't understand why there's a thing about fake nerd girls, or whether they're just pretending not to understand it to come off as understanding or something.

People hate attention whores.

That is all.

No seriously, people complain about attention whores everywhere. If there's a person whoring attention, there will be somebody complaining about it. Add to that the general insecurities of people who actually identify as a 'geek' in a non ironic fashion, and you get 'the fake nerd girl meme/situation/whatever.'

It's really not that hard to understand. And I don't even bloodywell identify myself as a geek/nerd/whatever.

The fake nerd part of the thread should finish after this really, the above quotes explains it well enough. The fake nerd 'girl' part again has been blown out of proportion (like Jims 20+ page thread), obviously there are guys out there complaining for the exact reason bob says, but because that's the only aspect that gets attention, the whole subject of posers taking advantage of a current 'nerd' trend gets laughed off along with the (rightfully) silly idea that 'hot chicks are out to get us'.

However I will just add that, no their not out to get us, however to be fair the 'tangible quantifiable precious resource' is called money, and its collected through blatant advertising/marketing of 'hot chick with a controller' or 'hot chick cosplaying', it doesn't affect us, but if we notice it and call it out, there's no harm in that (obviously we shouldn't be marching the streets and storming the local town halls lol, but complaining is fine), in real life it makes no difference, you just see a poser (male or female), and ignore, when its branded packaged and served up by marketing firms, for the sole purpose to sell movies/games/subscriptions/etc., that's when its out to get us (well our wallets).

Why should we be mad? (we being guys), we shouldn't, however if anyone should be mad about girls posing as 'nerds' for attention/profit/whatever, its the real females that (i assume) had to take crap in the past about being nerds. The current batch of posers will most likely cut all ties and shake off the image as soon as its not as trendy, and move onto the next image to exploit, the real females that would be described as nerds most likely wont.

Also i don't really see the logical conclusion being 'real geeks' getting anything out of it, i don't think the medium (or mediums if you look at 'nerd culture' being separate areas like comics/video games/movies/etc.), is going to be any better off, really if the influx of 'nerds' are just posing, they have no real interest in the mediums they claim to like anyway, and wont be consumers of it outside of 'ironic' tee shirts, costumes and thick rimmed glasses with no prescriptions lol. Also how would the 'real geeks' personally benefit? more people to talk to about their favorite medium? the posers don't even like it lol, and its not like anyone owes the posers gratitude for more 'nerdy' thing being made, for example having an excellent run of great superhero movies, really that's just because they were actually good, people decided to vote with their wallets. If that was all down to 'nerd culture' or 'comics culture' being trendy and the posers only deciding to buy tickets because its 'cool' for the moment, then we should expect no more good comic based movies as soon as the trendy bubble bursts lol (but i think its more the fact that Hollywood has been making some good stuff, and if they can keep it up all the better).


I'll be interested to see the other parts of the big picture, however hopefully this 'outrage trolling' has finished, it seems to be brought up to simply make fun of anyone that has a genuine problem with posers, by purely focusing on only the female poser aspect, and ignoring the marketing/money aspect too. Its understandable though, if that's all that gets brought up in the media, and bob wanted to comment on it, he can only comment on whats brought up, at least only a small proportion of the vid was about that.

 

[Mikodite]

The thing people arguing for "fake geek girl" is missing is that the only real problem with the phrase is the girl part. Fake Geeks aka Poseurs exists, yes. This can be annoying, problem is to much of a stretch for me. The problem is that the "Fake Geek Girl" targets only the women.

[...]

That is the problem people! The complaint isn't "There are people pretending to be geeks to fit into a 'cool' mainstream subculture." Its "There are women, 'hot' women dressing up in geeky clothing or risky cosplay just for the attention."

This is why the 'Fake Geek Girl" meme is sexist. Go on and explain how its not on the grounds that no one likes poseurs and attention whores, or that the subculture has become mainstream so now 'casuals' are coming in and polluting the geek master race, and so forth. It doesn't change the fact that its 'fake geek girls' and not 'fake geeks' that is the contested topic.

Seriously, when was the last time you knew a guy that was accused of being a fake nerd?

 

[BaronIveagh]

My lord thats hilarious

In a way, I've always felt bad for PeeGee. Every time DC had another Infinite Crisis, she was almost always the sole survivor. And then the new versions of everyone treated her like a noob.

Sadly, she's also always the one that DC seems to struggle to work with as a character. It seems like every time a creative team comes along that seems to 'get' PowerGirl, they get pulled a few issues later and replaced with people who just want to make a generic superhero book with boobs.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Okay, so apparently this is a real issue for people and Jim wasn't just short on ideas last week. Some days I'm glad I miss the controversy. Others have chimed in on a general hatred of posers of any gender. Anime surpasses my interest in games for several years and we hated the "hardcore otaku" that only really had knowledge of Akira, DBZ and the parts of Ghost in the Shell involving naked female cyborgs. Anyone that doesn't consider nerd an insult probably has a minimum bar of "willing to learn" to be accepted into the club if not a higher standard, and honestly, it is that active willingness to learn absorb and show off knowledge that makes us who we are, and often leaves us with little to say to those with a more passive sedentary interest.

And so to answer your question: no, it's hard to believe such girls would be there because nerds have become the hot commodity for a relationship. Are Star Wars t-shirts in fashion? Did acne and cola guts become a sign of sexual prowess? I mean, if they don't know about or have any interest in learning about the things we're into we won't have a heck of a lot to talk about, so that's out. Maybe this is the only way these hot girls can be admired because all the beaches, gyms, and bars have closed. Being a poser is bad enough, but it's hard to see a motive that isn't off putting. I suppose some could be out trolling for the next Zucherberg before he invents his billion dollar software (which would put the joke on them) but moreover I think the concern would be in being condescended to. Nerds are more sexually minded, but less sexually aggressive than the average male, so one's free to flirt without every smile being acted on as a sign of willingness for sex. AKA we're not here because we want to sleep with you, just admire us for a few hours and go away.

AT least that's my theory. I've taken this as a serious issue for about 30 minutes now so my theory could be half baked.

 

[Beautiful End]

No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

 

[wild0061]

No, Bob, you got it wrong.

If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms. Hell, I'm a girl and I work at GameStop and I cannot being to count the times guys ask me out because 1. Boobs and 2. I like nerd stuff. And mind you, it's not like I'm ugly or pretty; that's irrelevant. Guys just want to meet a girl who's into the stuff they like. I get it, and you got that part right.

No, what kinda bothers me is the posers. And I might superficial with this statement but you gotta admit posers are the one thing that can piss almost everyone off, no matter what genre we're talking about. granted, it's not like those type of girls are popping everywhere; I've met like 2 or 3 so far in my life. But it still kinda pisses me off.
I'm not a xenophobe. When I see one of those girls (or guy, for that matter) starting to take interest in games or comic books or whatever, I usually welcome them and introduce them to some of the stuff I like or they might like. But the usual response is them losing interest and going shopping or watching Pretty Little Liars (I swear that happened just like that).
They don't care about the geek/nerd culture overall. They just wanna be trendy and cool because nerds and geeks are now trendy and cool. And hey, it's not like we're a cult; anyone can be one. But some people just want to claim to be one for the fame.

Yeah, it's not like those girls can wear a, let's say, Yoshi shirt just because it's cute. that's fine. Who cares anyway? But it's as if I wear a Harley Davidson shirt and start hanging out at biker bars and talking about those bikes with the wheels and the engines and the vroom. Yeah, I might like the shirt but I shouldn't go around pretending to be into the whole biker thing.

And yeah, it's not like that issue doesn't let me sleep. But it still bothers me.

...I'm gonna get grilled for my superficial attitude...

*Takes cover*

Again this is basically it, Beautiful End pretty much covered it, and from a female "geek/nerd's" perspective no less, the only reason the thread will continue to grow and the 'Controversy' will remain, is because in general for a lot of Controversies not many people actually want to look at an issue, analyse it, and try work out a solution or why it occurred if there isn't a solution, but rather just turn it into screaming matches, attacking other posters personally, or pushing an agenda not (or slightly) related to the topic.
Bob / Jim, the gaming media or the sites hosting the content don't really want it to die either, I'm sure fanning the flames causes more hits now doesn't it

The answer is, ?it?s annoying?, so move along, or more talk on Supergirl / speculation on what's going to be in the next The Big Picture, its more entertaining than flogging the dead horse of a question that's been answered several times already in this thread alone lol.

 

[jmarquiso]

Kinda going off topic, don't you think?

You start off with a rant about people supposedly vying for attention, then switch gears to the origins of a comic book character.

Actually I think it's sort of a progression. He's using an example from comics when DC tried to market to a young female audience as well as the male audience. It's exactly what "geek girls" are asking for, and the kind of 50's/60's style chaos that ensued.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

So I have to ask: Seeing as my only knowledge of this apparent 'fake geek girl' thing comes from Jim/Bob/Critical Miss and I seem to have avoided seeing it anywhere else, just how deep is my head buried in the sand?

Dude, same here. I NEVER had any idea this was a problem or even a thing until Jim just brought it the fuck out of nowhere like he had reached the end of an issue that had been festering for years. Then Crit-Miss, and now MovieBob. It's really quite perplexing.

 

[maninahat]

I'd probably prefer this kind of charmingly un-threatening, dated sexist depiction of a female superhero, over the more recently dated "rape her in the backstory, turn her into a Strong!Female!, kill her off to raise the stakes" sexist depiction of a female superhero.

 

[Varya]

Dang it, I feel I have to throw my 5 cents in to the shit-storm that is the fake geek girl discussion, but I have a point I feel isn't adressed often enough.
I'm not going to deny the fake geek girl, I've seen a few, and seen a few comments on formus and facebook that has made me facepalm with "Geez, you really don't know what you're talking about either". Nor am I on the side of the " The fake geek girl is only heard of from people who protest it" bullshit. I browse enough websites to see some good examples of outrageous accusations of fake geek girls. Read the comments on Wil Whetons Tabletop with female guests, it's bloody disgusting.
Here's my problem. I get that people get annoyed when people get annoyed when people declare themselves geeks for watching "Lord of the Rings", I really do. The problem is, girls don't get called out for messing up their geek facts, girls are asked to prove it before hand. I have several female friends that put my geek-cred to shame and yet I never have to prove that I'm a geek beforehand. An entire gender is asked to prove that they are geeks before they are allowed to be part of the community, just because the phenomenon of the fake geek girl exists, and that is where the bloody sexism rears its ugly head. If you feel the need to out fake geek girls, you are probably not a very nice person but you know what, I can understand your rage. It's not very logical, but rage very seldom is, and I get it. If your default perception is that girls should prove they are "real geeks", you are a f'$ing sexist pig. It's as simple as that.
Not sure if my point came across very clear but it's been on my mind all week and I needed to get it out of my system.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't really get what this discussion is other than comic book fans like to create new embarrassingly stupid terms for things. As if "television tropes dot com" didn't already conclusively nail that to the mast head.

Some women can be manipulative and deceptive. If you are a well off single man who isn't that attractive then it's a well known fact that some attractive women will come on to you for your money. This is degrading for both parties really. But acting like a paranoid creep isn't the greatest thing.

 

[blackrave]

I personally dislike Power girl
Her outfit and general look is really weird
Can anyone explain why a lot of people are so into her?