The Big Picture: Sidekicks

[4173]

So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

It's more complicated than that. Fans hated it because of: Batman acting like a gigantic tool, using the "first canonical female Robin" in what was perceived as a dishonest manner, complete disregard for what "first canonical female]/i] Robin would mean to segments of the readers and weird torture porn-y art [of a teenage girl] in a couple of places. Then throw in editorial statements that she was never a "real" Robin and denying her a memorial in the Batcave because "it was her own fault." Oh yeah, and a dose of good old fashioned character assassination for Leslie Thompkins.

It was just a giant clusterfuck of tone deafness and poor judgement.



Dido has already released a DC black ops team after MovieBob for calling Stephanie a Robin.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That's what I was thinking, but I figured I was missing something, since The Dark Knight Returns is really the only comic I've ever read XD

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

So, why are they called Robin?

 

[Shadowstar38]

I'd agree with Tim Drake being the best Robin. Dick is much better a his on hero rather that be Nightwing or Batman.

Damian is...kind of an ass. And Stephine didnt seem like she was cut out for the job.

Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That's what I was thinking, but I figured I was missing something, since The Dark Knight Returns is really the only comic I've ever read XD

That comic takes place in an alternate future. She doesn't count.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That comic takes place in an alternate future. She doesn't count.[/quote]
Ah, that's nice to know.

 

[Kazedarkwind]

is anyone else getting really tired of the "_____ are weird" bits? its really starting to gnaw at my ears every time he does it to the point i hover over the sound off button when i watch these episodes.

Anyway thanks for the little sum up of the robins, so im guessing the dark knight rises robin is one nolan made up so he could stand putting him in a film? lol

 

[xPixelatedx]

Wow, almost all of those 'The fans/people hated that' moments you mentioned sound pretty awesome to me!

 

[Scorpid]

I'd like to see a Terry McGinnis episode too. I've only known him from the Cartoon and I really enjoyed that character when I was kid. Batman was grumpy and old taking on a more curmudgeonly Alfred like mentor to Terry. On top of that Bruce wanted Terry become obsessive about being the batman like he was and Terry pushed back against it. I thought it made for interesting conflict between the two.

ALSO DAMN I didn't know there were so many Robbins. Comics are really weird >_>

 

[Callate]

I read a good portion of the whole Red Hood-Black Mask segment of Batman (my exposure to same is somewhat defined by what the library makes available), and quite frankly, it made me want to break the writers' fingers. Aside from the gratuitous levels of grim-and-gritty and the joyous flogging of the notion "Batman should be killing these supervillains, letting them live to return to terrorize again is irresponsible", both the Hood and the Mask were heavily laden with "plot armor", showing no particularly novel or ingenious planning abilities or skills yet somehow knocking Batman for a loop because, hey, that's what was written.

Argh.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about the "New 52" reboot decision, but I sure as hell hope they can do better than that.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Snip*

It's more complicated than that. Fans hated it because of: Batman acting like a gigantic tool, using the "first canonical female Robin" in what was perceived as a dishonest manner, complete disregard for what "first canonical female]/i] Robin would mean to segments of the readers and weird torture porn-y art [of a teenage girl] in a couple of places. Then throw in editorial statements that she was never a "real" Robin and denying her a memorial in the Batcave because "it was her own fault." Oh yeah, and a dose of good old fashioned character assassination for Leslie Thompkins.

It was just a giant clusterfuck of tone deafness and poor judgement.



Dido has already released a DC black ops team after MovieBob for calling Stephanie a Robin.

Ok, now that makes more sense than fans reacting to irony.

Snip*

Gender has a lot to do with this. Fans hate to see female characters die, especially their waifu.

Also fans only like it when annoying characters (Scrappy Doo, Wesley Crusher, Jar Jar Binks) are killed. Killing popular characters can arouse a lot of anger if it's handled badly or for no real reason (when R. A. Salvatore killed off Chewbacca (Star Wars) he needed FBI protection due to all the death threats he received).

Death threaths !?

I...don't even.....what?..wait........WHAT? Ok, Star wars fan community is now no.1 in over-reactions.

 

[Norix596]

To summarize in a word, "wat? 0.o" I never read comic books but I watched various superhero cartoons in the 90's (Batman Beyond was my favorite) So this is and avalanche of confusion.

Also, WTF the Iranian Ambassador???!?!? Who's idea was that..?

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

Cartoons and the comics taking place in the DCAU. Since Terry becomes Batman in the future, and we are still in the present, it still a bit of a mute point.

One wonders if Terry will ever actually appear in the main comic universe (besides a few appearances like in Countdown where he is briefly seen in what is another universe) without the existence of Cadmus and now every city has a Batman (or was that retconned out with Flashpoint?) is even possible.

He also has another son, who is currently Robin, so you don't need to make another one.

 

[DJ_DEnM]

Ah, wow. I was actually one of the people hoping for this kind of episode. Thank you Bob!

 

[The Deadpool]

I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

He wasn't his son, just an adopted father figure.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_(Terry_McGinnis)#Bruce_Wayne

Last episode of JLU reveals Terry was created by Amanda Waller using Bruce's DNA as an attempt of recreating a Batman.

Hell, it's ON THE LINK YOU POSTED:

"The Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue" reveals that Terry is Bruce's biological son due to Amanda Waller's "Batman Beyond" project. This twist may be foreshadowed by the Batman Beyond season three episode, "Inqueling", when Terry notes that Wayne may be more of a "father figure" than Max realizes. The project caused Terry's father to have his reproductive DNA overwritten and made Bruce's reproductive DNA dominant when Warren McGinnis took a fake flu shot. This makes Bruce the biological father of both Terry and his brother Matt, even if Warren McGinnis raised them. "

 

[The Deadpool]

So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

Gender has a lot to do with this. Fans hate to see female characters die, especially their waifu.

Also fans only like it when annoying characters (Scrappy Doo, Wesley Crusher, Jar Jar Binks) are killed. Killing popular characters can arouse a lot of anger if it's handled badly or for no real reason (when R. A. Salvatore killed off Chewbacca (Star Wars) he needed FBI protection due to all the death threats he received).

Also, fans did not LOVE Todd's death. The vote was almost evenly split.

Besides, Steph was a bit of a fan favorite. She was so peppy and exciting as a Robin...

 

[Vausch]

Nevertheless, I still think Batman is better without the kid sidekick.

The main reason Batman has a Robin, as Tim Drake put it, is that there needs to be a Robin to keep Batman in check. Batman is filled with angst and depression while Robin helps bring him up, acts as a counterbalance.

It's one of the reasons it worked in reverse when Dick Grayson became Batman and Damien became Robin, the roles got switched. Now it's Bruce and Damien and it's angst with more angst. Kinda doesn't work.

 

[Negatempest]

I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

Cartoon and some comics I think, to quote BOB:

TV AND COMICS ARE WIERD

To my own knowledge Terry became official in Batman #700. The comic lists men who became batman and Terry was in there. His story is that Damian saves him as a kid and is the one to mentor Terry for the role of Batman once he gets older, instead of Bruce Wayne.

 

[Scorpid]

Sidekick are weird >_>.

 

[Sande45]

Goddammit, I like Batman and would love to get into the comics but shit's just way too weird and ridiculous.

Are there any separate Batman story lines that don't let all that multiverse, retcon and other bullshit brought by decades of trying to keep everything canon get in the way of sense and reasonable, cohesive story?