The Big Picture: Sidekicks

[Muspelheim]

Oh, dear... Mind... Utterly...

http://erikssonskultursidor.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ruta-ur-inferno-av-fabian-mansson.jpg?w=500

Blown.

And the kicker is, I don't even care about Batman, or superhero comics at all. And the impenetrable mass of half a century's retcons and storyarch is probably the main reason why. However, listening to someone who have a clue what the flip is going on is very entertaining. Far more than actually reading them, myself.

 

[MrBaskerville]

Dunno if i´m the only one, but i´m kinda starting to cringe everytime the --- are weird thing sets in, imo some things gets old faster than others, this got old years ago...

 

[Timnoldzim]

Wow, Bob's theory regarding sidekicks' popularity is quite intriguing. It actually makes a lot of sense, that superheroes would become father figures in a time when real-life father figures were scarce.

 

[Slycne]

It was incredibly close. The difference was within 100 votes, like you said. Its entirely possible that the difference got made up of dbags who just voted to kill him off just to see if DC would do it.

Fuckers, all of the people who did that.

Actually if you read up on it a bit, it can supposedly be attributed to a single person who programmed a computer to autodial the number.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Nevertheless, I still think Batman is better without the kid sidekick.

The main reason Batman has a Robin, as Tim Drake put it, is that there needs to be a Robin to keep Batman in check. Batman is filled with angst and depression while Robin helps bring him up, acts as a counterbalance.

It's one of the reasons it worked in reverse when Dick Grayson became Batman and Damien became Robin, the roles got switched. Now it's Bruce and Damien and it's angst with more angst. Kinda doesn't work.

Maybe you're right, after all I've had very little exposure to the comics so most of my experience with Robin is from the goofy 60's series and the Schumacher films. Whereas watching Batman in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited shows running around being awesome with no sidekick made me think that maybe he's better off without one.

Spoiler kind of looks like The mysterious mare do well don't you guys think?

Neigh, you're Mysterious Mare looks more like Darkwing Duck (it's the hat).

 

[daxterx2005]

Good thing we're only counting comic continuity...other wise they'd be a hell of a lot more.

Damien (the current Robin) grows up to become the future batman and his un-named future son becomes his Robin. This is just one of the many others.

 

[irishmanwithagun]

Okay, this is a thing, tangentially related to the video, that's been bothering me since I read Bob's Intermission on The Dark Knight Rises. In it he complains about how Blake just "knows" that Bruce is Batman from meeting him at his orphanage which would be a legitimate criticism if it wasn't lifted right out of Tim Drake's backstory, a backstory that Bob never complains about when mentioning him.
On an unrelated note, even though I'm well aware that Bob said he wouldn't do any manga episodes (and thus, presumably, anime as well) I really want to see an episode comparing Japanese "Otaku" culture to Western "Geek" culture, because I find the parallels between the two subcultures (that grew mostly independent of each other) fascinating.
So, Bob, if you're reading this then... thanks for reading, I guess? Keep up the good work and have a nice life.
Cheerio.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Seriously Bob? Pronouncing Ra's Al Ghoul wrong? That's how I said it until I heard it in TAS.
(OK, turns out this is a topic of some debate on youtube)

I hate Tim Drake, hes too young, its weird.

Just remembered I only read the first 4 Justice Leagues about 2 months ago and completely forgot about the rest of it.

 

[PunkRex]

Ive seen quite alot of the 'Under the Red Hood' movie, its freaking awesome! The Red hoods quite the badass and John DiMaggio as the Joker rocks the shizz.

 

[The Floating Nose]

Huuuh ok, i know that you're a HUGE fan of Batman, Bob but it's like the fifth fucking episode in a row that you talk about Batman related stuff soo...find something else to talk about in the next episode please ?

 

[RTR]

This better be the last Batman-related episode for a while

 

[vxicepickxv]

So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

It's more complicated than that. Fans hated it because of: Batman acting like a gigantic tool, using the "first canonical female Robin" in what was perceived as a dishonest manner, complete disregard for what "first canonical female]/i] Robin would mean to segments of the readers and weird torture porn-y art [of a teenage girl] in a couple of places. Then throw in editorial statements that she was never a "real" Robin and denying her a memorial in the Batcave because "it was her own fault." Oh yeah, and a dose of good old fashioned character assassination for Leslie Thompkins.

It was just a giant clusterfuck of tone deafness and poor judgement.



Dido has already released a DC black ops team after MovieBob for calling Stephanie a Robin.

Fortunately DC black ops teams have very specific contracts though, and as long as MovieBob is either 1)living in Boston, or 2) traveling for work, they're not allowed to snag him. They consider Boston too dangerous to drive in, and realized that traveling for work is very tactless.

As for the rest of it, I'm going to agree with you about the clusterfuck. If the torture had basically been heavily implied(start with threats, maybe one or two hits, then basically skipped), and either she lived in the first place, or wasn't able to be saved at all(and given a memorial), it probably wouldn't have upset DC fans so much.

 

[skylog]

I always liked Stephanie Brown as Robin, since I thought she was an interesting character, what with trying to intercept her dad's crimes. The whole Batman firing her thing was, I think, pretty stupid.

It is worse than that; you can read on DC Women Kicking Ass that they never planned on letting her stay as Robin, and in fact don't count her as one, saying it was "just a trial". Basically they only used Steph as Robin to set up the War Games story.

This is why I stopped following superhero comics.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Okay, this is a thing, tangentially related to the video, that's been bothering me since I read Bob's Intermission on The Dark Knight Rises. In it he complains about how Blake just "knows" that Bruce is Batman from meeting him at his orphanage which would be a legitimate criticism if it wasn't lifted right out of Tim Drake's backstory, a backstory that Bob never complains about when mentioning him.
On an unrelated note, even though I'm well aware that Bob said he wouldn't do any manga episodes (and thus, presumably, anime as well) I really want to see an episode comparing Japanese "Otaku" culture to Western "Geek" culture, because I find the parallels between the two subcultures (that grew mostly independent of each other) fascinating.
So, Bob, if you're reading this then... thanks for reading, I guess? Keep up the good work and have a nice life.
Cheerio.

The thing is, Tim had some basic detective work behind his deduction. He saw Nightwing perform some aerial trick he also saw performed by Dick Grayson at the circus, and concluded they were the same person. He then put two and two together that Dick's benefactor had the motive and means to be Batman. John Blake just saw Bruce hiding behind a fake smile and thought that only someone doing so could be Batman, and that Bruce was apparently the only person in Gotham such a mindset belonged to.

One had logic, the other had a hero story that happened to be right.

 

[DeimosMasque]

I forget if Bob has addressed the subject of Wonder Girl / Diana Troy, which is probably worth an episode or two all to her own. Specifically, the original Wonder Girl put into the teen titans never actually existed in the first place, and they've been backpedaling to explain her for decades now.

Also, on the subject of the Robins... they make for excellent matryoshka dolls. http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/04-remedial-adulthood/inventory-3/

-DONNA- Troy actually doesn't even exist as far as the current New 52 goes.

The quick and dirty of her story is that when making Teen Titans originally the writer looked at covers and saw that Wonder Woman had a little sister. Problem was that was just a de-aged Wonder Woman and no character like a sidekick. So they retroactively explained it and even had her removed from continuity a second time before Kid Flash literally wished her back into existence.

So for the third time she's removed from continuity... just like Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain and a few other strong female characters.

I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes./quote]

Cartoons and the comics taking place in the DCAU. Since Terry becomes Batman in the future, and we are still in the present, it still a bit of a mute point.

One wonders if Terry will ever actually appear in the main comic universe (besides a few appearances like in Countdown where he is briefly seen in what is another universe) without the existence of Cadmus and now every city has a Batman (or was that retconned out with Flashpoint?) is even possible.

He also has another son, who is currently Robin, so you don't need to make another one.

Okay the idea of Bruce being Terry's father comes from a JLU episode where they show an older Terry dealing with CADMUS and finding out that his father's sperm's DNA had been reprogrammed to be Bruce Wayne. It was a plot by Amanda Waller to create another Batman, even hired Phantasm to kill Terry's parents... she backed out though.

As for how that works for the Comic Continuity? Well there is a few canon Batman Beyond comics that include Hush, Nightwing, Jason Todd and even makes the Killing Joke canon for the cartoon. In it's most recent issues its even stated that Bruce of Beyond world did indeed form Batman Inc, but it had since become little more than a charity.

Also even as of the New 52 both CADMUS and Batman Inc still exist. Take from that what you may.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

*snip*

Oh. Yes indeed I forgot about that.
But the origin of Spoiler is kind of like the mysterious mare do well in a way.

I'll have to take your word on that. Before today I'd never heard of either of those characters, I just read your post, looked at the pictures, and thought (with a chuckle) "nah that Mysterious Mare looks more like Darkwing Duck."

 

[Sovereignty]

I really hope we can get episodes like this in the future.

If not on many more characters I specifically want one for the Superman family.

I mean isn't his damn dog super powered?